A rant: fat horses

I do wish a few would realise that a HW isn't meant to look like a TB though. I get so fed up of comments about my ID's shape - FFS he is not, & never will be, a TB. As he's currently in hospital following colic surgery he was put on the weighbridge & I also asked the surgeon for her honest opinion on his weight/condition. She has no problem with it - I can have him a little lighter if I really want, but only a little & she personally wouldn't. Also in his case tere's the issue that he has ulcers & needs constant access to long fibre. But I know that when I get him home people will start again about him being fat, simply because they can't seem to see the basic type he is.

So by all means keep your horses slim, no-one would argue it's in their best interests, but be realistic too & remember that the horse's gut needs fibre to be healthy.
 
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As I said, I am not ranting at owners of fatties and I know what the difficulties are with any horse, thin or fat. I just rant about the perceptions of a section of the horseworld, that fat is ok.

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Its just as sad that this debate is not new. 10 years ago I was showing my show cob in a class and the two initially pulled in just above me were put right down when the judge said that they were way too fat. The owner of both who was riding one muttered to her friend that what did the judge know, her horse was only one one scoop of nuts and one of mollychop once a day, as well as 12 hr turnout & adlib hay at night. You could hear the inward groan from the rest of us: that horse really didn't need a feed daily, let alone such a big one! It had cellulite!

Thank you for all the comments re. improving grazing & the fact that natives would have to travel miles just to find a bit of grass: all incredibly valid points that it is all to easy to forget. I am now worriedly looking out at all the "nice," rested, weeded, fertilised, grassy land we have!
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I think alot comes from the fact that many horse-owners know precisely nothing about grass, or correct feeding at all. Many, like me, keep them on farms which have previously been supporting beef fatteners or dairy cows. Farmers tend to not know much about horses - they eat grass like cows don't they? I'm lucky, my mare although part Welsh D has never ever been fat, and I'm still feeding her twice a day (to get meds into her) in addition to the clover-rich grass available to her 24/7. The grass isn't particularly long or lush, but it is a RICH variety of grass. To give you an idea, last year 1.5 acres easily supported 5 out full time AND 28 sheep all summer. Forget the acre per horse theory! The next field is sown with a completely different, poorer variety, sparsely drilled and is much more suitable for neds. There are 2 full welshies on with mine and they are disgustingly fat. You couldn't find their ribs with a pitchfork and they waddle and wobble. The fact that they don't get much exercise doesn't exactly help. But the owners "don't like masks" in one case, and are blind to it in the other. As the OP says, when they have to keep their horses in a stable for 6 weeks or worse, they might just learn, but why should the poor horses suffer because of their ignorance. If 2 on the field are already wearing masks wouldn't that give a clue? Overfeeding horses is every bit as bad as starving them - giving a 13hh pony more hard feed than a 16hh is ridiculous but you see it all the time. The showing world still encourages "condition". Someone once asked me why show ponies suddenly seem to disappear after a couple of seasons. I thought it was because they go off to be baby machines, but she said no, they all get laminitis and are put down. My mare is in gorgeous condition for her age (26). Her coat is soft as silk and her flesh supple. A couple of handfuls of showing chaff gives her a lovely shine. She is retired but still muscular with a nice firm crest. But you can see her ribs moving under her barrel and she has a rounded bum, not a flat top or bum cleavage. Of course a cob should be stockier than a thoroughbred, but sturdy, not fat. It seems many people just cannot see what is in front of them.

Sorry for ranting!
 
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Whats the best way to bring this to the attention of the showing world? How are judges best re-educated do you think?

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The BHS(?) is running a Fit not Fat campaign, which I think is finally being taken note of. Sadly I do think that judges will always favour natives who carry a bit more weight: but then again showing is only a small percentage of all the different horsey pursuits. Cross country driving for example, natives are often seen pulling those carriages and being lean and fit is a major advantage there.
 
I'm lucky at the moment as my boy (16.2hh IDx) is neither too thin in the winter nor too fat in the summer. Unlike me
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, he seems to maintain a healthy weight very easily.

However my old Sec D was very prone to piling on the pounds. While I was riding him regularly it was never too difficult to keep his weight down, but as soon as he was semi retired due to arthritis and despite being in his mid 20s he became a bit of a bloater. I tried everything to keep his weight down - he hated being in by himself and tried to jump out of his stable making his arthritis much worse. He was petrified of electric fencing (always had been) to the point where he would hide in the corner of a section I had fenced off shaking and refuse to move all day (yes he lost weight but even I wasn't prepared for him to be in that state to lose it). He could get any muzzle off in 20 seconds flat and there was nowhere to put him out with some hay unless he went in the school. With 15 other liveries wanting to use it, this wasn't really an option.

Other people would tell me not to worry he was old and deserved to be a bit fat after a life of working hard (not that hard, ridden about 4 times a week for anything between 1-3hrs!) and wouldn't get laminitis at his age if he'd never had it before. I was lucky that he never did, but to me the most important thing was to ease the pressure on his arthritic joints.

Without riding him, nobody else could see how the extra weight was affecting him but he changed from a bouncy, over-exciteable nutter (in the best possible way!) to an old man going through the motions overnight. He couldn't cope with being ridden too often so I would walk him in hand or my friend would ride and lead to try and help but he was always on the fat side of healthy. As soon as Winter came and the weight was gone, he'd go back to his normal self.

So it's not just to avoid laminitis, there are all sorts of reasons not to let your neds get fat.
 
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Whats the best way to bring this to the attention of the showing world? How are judges best re-educated do you think?

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Get rid of them and replace with sensible people.
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In all honesty, I really do not have the first clue. It's quite scary really, as this belief is so rife in the showing world.
 
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I do wish a few would realise that a HW isn't meant to look like a TB though. I get so fed up of comments about my ID's shape - FFS he is not, & never will be, a TB. As he's currently in hospital following colic surgery he was put on the weighbridge & I also asked the surgeon for her honest opinion on his weight/condition. She has no problem with it - I can have him a little lighter if I really want, but only a little & she personally wouldn't. Also in his case tere's the issue that he has ulcers & needs constant access to long fibre. But I know that when I get him home people will start again about him being fat, simply because they can't seem to see the basic type he is.

So by all means keep your horses slim, no-one would argue it's in their best interests, but be realistic too & remember that the horse's gut needs fibre to be healthy.

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No one is saying they need to look like a TB, and my cob does not look like a TB.

I haven't seen your ID, but I'm pretty sure that just because he is HW won't mean he is fat. However, HW also doesn't mean they have to have a huge crest and gutter.

I have already said twice that I am not holier than thou and have struggled with the weight of several horses. I do not believe for one minute that horses should look like rakes, but I get sick of people telling others that their horses looks wonderful when it has a crest that's so big it's nearly fallen and a gutter so deep you could lose a small dog in it.
 
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As I said, I am not ranting at owners of fatties and I know what the difficulties are with any horse, thin or fat. I just rant about the perceptions of a section of the horseworld, that fat is ok.

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Its just as sad that this debate is not new. 10 years ago I was showing my show cob in a class and the two initially pulled in just above me were put right down when the judge said that they were way too fat. The owner of both who was riding one muttered to her friend that what did the judge know, her horse was only one one scoop of nuts and one of mollychop once a day, as well as 12 hr turnout & adlib hay at night. You could hear the inward groan from the rest of us: that horse really didn't need a feed daily, let alone such a big one! It had cellulite!

Thank you for all the comments re. improving grazing & the fact that natives would have to travel miles just to find a bit of grass: all incredibly valid points that it is all to easy to forget. I am now worriedly looking out at all the "nice," rested, weeded, fertilised, grassy land we have!
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That was Charlie that said that. I don't have acres of grass-free land either!
 
When I got my boy (HW cob) 6 months ago he was absolutely enormous - my vet, saddler, farrier etc didn't pussy-foot around with telling me that! What shocked us all though was that he'd been like this for a year in a field by the road in a very horsey area - if he'd been that much underweight instead the RSPCA would have been innundated but no-one had said a thing, the owner didn't even seem to realise that he was more than 'a little overweight'. He had to stop for rest breaks just walking up to the stables from his field.

Luckily he seems to have got away with it and the weights been coming off steadily since I got him (restricting grazing and lots of walking energetically up hills). Had the saddler out two weeks ago and he's gone down 2 width fittings!
 

On the subject of masks, I don't like them either
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for one thing our welshies are far too playful, and would break them within a matter of hours, and for another I don't necessarily think it allows them enough fibre to have a healthy digestive system.

Having said that I think they have their place when there is not a better option, but I would rather see horses on limited grazing or scrub paddocks with hay than in a lush field with a mask on, although I do fully appreciate that at livery your options are often limited.
 
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That was Charlie that said that. I don't have acres of grass-free land either!

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Whoops, I wasn't clear, I meant thanks in general to whoever had made the various points
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Meant to say as well, a friend entered her very fit and lean Sec D in many local and county level trekking pony show classes and was quite often beaten into second by a (albeit very nice looking) pony that was so fat it looked like it wouldn't last a mile, let alone 20. They then both found themselves in the class at a big national show where the judge placed my friend's horse first and announced very loudly that he was the only one in the class that looked fit enough for a day's trekking. The girl who had beaten my friend locally wasn't even placed and could be heard leaving the ring saying it was ridiculous because everybody knows that horses need reserves of food to cope with long distances and my friend's horse looked anorexic and would run out of energy on a proper trek! I don't think it was just sour grapes she really seemed to believe this!
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LOL. That's OK. I thought I'd offended you!

I haven't set out to offend anyone. I have just experienced laminitis first hand and still cry every day about losing a mare that got this illness not because of her weight, but who struggled to recover because of it.
 
Having had an ID/TB mare how got Lami at 20 a combination of being overwight & then striking her foreleg tendon with her hind leg I am now fervently anti over-weight. She spent the next 4 years of her life on permanatly restricted grazing. I found it hard, but it was the kindest thing for her.
Now i am being offered a Shetland on loan from someone for my son, as they want a person who understands lami & is prepared to restrict & do what is necessary to stop the pony getting it
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I feel quite proud about that.
I saw a photo a couple of weeks ago in H &H of a 3 year old at a major county show - forget which one & to me it looked huge & fat & my OH agreed. It breaks my heart to see young horses like this because of the stress it puts on their developing system.
 
I think (someone correct me if I am wrong) that sadly often youngsters are routinely over fed by show producers: this is certainly the case for welsh Ds at some of the sales I have visited recently. These are the horses who will disappear off the circuit in a few years time because of the various joint & limb problems that come with over feeding at such a young age.

ETS well done for taking on a shetland. It is my worst nightmare, waking up to find that I own a shetland (I have actually had this weird dream) because a) i'd never be able to manage its' weight, and b) it would escape under all our fencing! oh and c) it would be squished by one of our playful boys or worse d) would be so flamin' opinionated that it would become boss of our herd
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What you have all have said is so true

It is a great shame that there are so many ignorant horse owners, yard owners/managers and judges who fail to understand the serious dangers of overweight horses.

It is also sad that there are so many vets that do not have a full understanding of Laminitis. There have been posts on this board from people who's horses are obviously suffering from Laminitis yet there vets are taking weeks to diagnose it.

I strongly believe that to many horses are totaly under-excercised and put on grass that is totally unsuitable for horses. Horses need mature grassland which has plenty of different varieties of mature grasses and weeds in it (traditional pasture land).

Grassland that is fertilised is dangerous to horses and my belief is that they should never be put on grassland that has been fertilised. (For at least 2 years).

Rant over.
 
Take a lot more than that to offend me, LankyDoodle!

Right, after all this talk, I'm off to try and sweat a few lbs off our fatty
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Maybe even lose some myself
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I always banging on to people and YO about my horses weight and Ro's (and my previous horse who is on the same yard), I admit I'm a bit of a perfectionist and like them to be just right, the moment the girth is getting either too big or too small I access the situation either increase the fitness or make changes to the diet etc

Now what annoys me is, people telling me that Ro (who I took on free loan since December) is not as fat as she used to be (when I'm requesting to bring her in on a night or asking for the field to be sectioned off, or explaining that her saddle is not fitting as well etc etc) and pointing out that she's never had lami before.

I don't care what she looked like before, she is still overweight in my books that is why I put her on a diet in winter that is why I'm nagging both YO and owner for me to either bring her in, or be sectioned off, I don't care if she's never had lami, I prefer prevention rather than cure and lastly, I don't think people who have had horses/ponies with lami in the past in are a position to tell me that there just right or that I'm being over cautious about it all.

oooh eck, nearly had a rant there
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, steady on Kenzo.
 
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I do wish a few would realise that a HW isn't meant to look like a TB though. I get so fed up of comments about my ID's shape - FFS he is not, & never will be, a TB. As he's currently in hospital following colic surgery he was put on the weighbridge & I also asked the surgeon for her honest opinion on his weight/condition. She has no problem with it - I can have him a little lighter if I really want, but only a little & she personally wouldn't. Also in his case tere's the issue that he has ulcers & needs constant access to long fibre. But I know that when I get him home people will start again about him being fat, simply because they can't seem to see the basic type he is.

So by all means keep your horses slim, no-one would argue it's in their best interests, but be realistic too & remember that the horse's gut needs fibre to be healthy.

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No one is saying they need to look like a TB, and my cob does not look like a TB.

I haven't seen your ID, but I'm pretty sure that just because he is HW won't mean he is fat. However, HW also doesn't mean they have to have a huge crest and gutter.

I have already said twice that I am not holier than thou and have struggled with the weight of several horses. I do not believe for one minute that horses should look like rakes, but I get sick of people telling others that their horses looks wonderful when it has a crest that's so big it's nearly fallen and a gutter so deep you could lose a small dog in it.

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Oh I wasn't getting at you, I think your comments are perfectly valid. I just wish people would get properly educated rather than fixing one "right" image in their mind - but then that's all you want too so in a roundabout way I'm agreeing with you I suppose
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It's more that some people I know, in their determination to have a slim horse, seem to think everything should be modelled on a TB or at the very worst a TBx. I can think of one woman who owns a MW type whose ribs I can count from halfway across the yard, has the weakest backend I've seen for a long time & a hollow look to his neck & flanks & no sparkle of energy yet she goes on about how well he looks & digs about mine. I'm told a horse that she has elsewhere & looks after by herself is even "slimmer".
 
I find it such hard work trying to keep a fat cob within safe limits of weight. I don't think I would ever have one again and mine is a lovely fellow but needs so much exercise and management to keep healthy.
You know when sellers say " this horse so safe and bombproof you can leave it in the field and take if for a hack once a fortnight and it will be safe" but they forget to admit it need riding 7 days a week for 2 and half hours minimum, despite the weather and all your other commitments, just to keep it fit enough to do a 4 min dressage test once a month!!!!
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Agree with all the comments above. My mare (cob) had mild lami last year - was on box rest all summer - the advice from my vet was poor to say the least. Luckily I have a great farrier and did my own research and contacted the Laminitis Clinic - between them my mare is back in work, still unshod and is out 24/7 and touches wood - with no symptoms. She is kept on a strict diet and is on restricted grazing with soaked hay but most importantly for her is out being a horse.

The irony of it is that last when she came down with lami she was thinnest she had ever been - she is from a rescue - and had lost 17 inches from her girth since I had her (which equals lots all over!!) as I have always restricted her grazing etc since last summer she has lost another 3 inches from her girth and you can now see her ribs and feel them - who knew coblets had ribs??!! She will stay on her diet forever - and I can ignore the looks from her pleading to be let out on to long grass etc as I would rather her skinny and healthy and mobile than in pain and stabled forever.
 
i think its pretty simple. my mums horse came to us HUGE and he has never lost his crest, although at one point, he was rather skinny. however we keep him on restricted grazing and he gets Happy Hoof after work and in the winter. for the past 5 years (touch wood) he has never had laminitus. you just have to keep them trim and keep them fit. make sure you know what their eating and keep on top of it.

it hurts me too to see fat horses. its just the same as being underweight. it can be lethal. there has been speculation on making Working Hunters not so chunky. Its not right to see those horses fed up to show. i understand that's what the judges want but some are obscene! (please don't bite my head off for saying that, its been a raised concern and i know things are being done about it so please dont be angry at me for saying it
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I think I know how the rant got started and to be honest, I'm a little taken aback with some of the comments on this thread.
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I know that there wasn't any one person that was being commented about and so on. But I think it's really a bit judgemental some of the comments.

Not all fat horses get lami. On my yard there some fat sound horses. Not all lami horses get it because they're fat. Not all fat horses are fat because they aren't being looked after. Many well meaning horse keepers (myself included) DO limit grazing/feeding and exercise their horses and still need to get weight off further. I'm not afraid of CCs - when asking for advice, it's a GOOD thing to accept HONEST criticism/opinion.

It's easy to open the pages of H&H and see lots of horses in the show ring that are fat. And many of us accept that this is "normal". I have worked hard to put topline on my horse since forever, thru hard work, schooling, hacking and so on. I've been lead to believe that using a certain balancer or this or that will help this. It's no different than opening up the pages of women's magazines and reading that you must be a size 4, weigh no more than 7 stone in order to be beautiful - it's a fashion that many people really can't live up to.

I've asked before for someone to post (in another forum) a couple of FIT Welsh D's for a reference.
If anyone could post such a photo, I'd really love to see it.
 
Not read all of this thread so apologies if this has been said.

Last year one of our ponies won her in hand class at the RHS. The judge was a well known native pony breeder and our girl was carrying a bit of weight. His view is that you'd expect natives to be carrying a bit of weight in the summer as in the wild that's when they pack in the food. But he made a clear distinction between 'carrying a bit of weight' and fat. Not enough judges do this.

This year her weight got away from us a bit, as did our son's section A. Both have been in a starvation paddock for weeks. The section A is thinner than he's been for years, and he's like a new pony. Far more lively and forward going and my son is loving it. The Eriskay is also thinner than she's been in all the time we've had her and we think she's the better for it. What's more she's won just about every inhand class she's been in this year so at least some judges agree.

Be interested to see what happens at the RHS this year where we've been marked down in the past for having too thin ponies.
 
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I think I know how the rant got started and to be honest, I'm a little taken aback with some of the comments on this thread. <font color="blue">The rant got started because over the last few weeks I have seen so many threads where people are asking if their horse is fat/thin/whatever and people say what they think the OP wants to hear. The rant was about the people whose perceptions of fat/thin horses seems to be skewed. </font>
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I know that there wasn't any one person that was being commented about and so on. But I think it's really a bit judgemental some of the comments. <font color="blue"> Yeh, it would be judgemental if I hadn't actually had first hand experience of a horse with lami. Still, I'm happy to just pootle along being all sweet and nice and pretending that I didn't see my mare's pedal bone fall through her sole, if it makes you feel better.</font>

Not all fat horses get lami. On my yard there some fat sound horses. Not all lami horses get it because they're fat. Not all fat horses are fat because they aren't being looked after. <font color="blue"> No one said all fat horses get lami and no one said that fat horses are not looked after. </font> Many well meaning horse keepers (myself included) DO limit grazing/feeding and exercise their horses and still need to get weight off further. I'm not afraid of CCs - when asking for advice, it's a GOOD thing to accept HONEST criticism/opinion <font color="blue"> What's dishonest about MY opinion? </font> .

It's easy to open the pages of H&amp;H and see lots of horses in the show ring that are fat. And many of us accept that this is "normal" <font color="blue"> Another thing that spurred on my rant </font> . I have worked hard to put topline on my horse since forever, thru hard work, schooling, hacking and so on. I've been lead to believe that using a certain balancer or this or that will help this. It's no different than opening up the pages of women's magazines and reading that you must be a size 4, weigh no more than 7 stone in order to be beautiful - it's a fashion that many people really can't live up to.

I've asked before for someone to post (in another forum) a couple of FIT Welsh D's for a reference.
If anyone could post such a photo, I'd really love to see it.

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I havn't read the entireity of this post - just the first page as I need to run to stables now. but in a slight defence of showing, at the last two shows I've been to I've overheard judges telling people their horses need to loose weight. Things are beginning to change, thankfully.
 
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I havn't read the entireity of this post - just the first page as I need to run to stables now. but in a slight defence of showing, at the last two shows I've been to I've overheard judges telling people their horses need to loose weight. Things are beginning to change, thankfully.

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Good.
 
Actually, Lankydoodle, your comments to my query re fat scoring I thought were fair and honest. I wasn't jabbing at you. In fact, you made a rather nice comment re coat condition etc. And maybe I'm not taking in everything everyone said exactly correctly. I'm sorry that you had a horrible time with your horse, you'll appreciate anyone else who might be going thru a similar problem.

It's very difficult to diet a horse as you know. It's hard to get a clear understanding of how much is enough, too much and so on. Fat score charts are great. But it's always good to get second, third, fourth opinions with respect to the chart.

My only reason to follow this thread and post re the comments was it was almost leaning to generalising that folk with fat horses aren't looking after them.
 
Am glad my comments didn't upset you PnP. I was hoping not as your thread in SY was not, uniquely, what initiated this rant and you did ask for honest opinions in there, which the majority of us gave. Your horse, on the whole does look healthy, and she is not grossly overweight, but she is too fat, especially as she has had an attack of laminitis.

Most people here have had experiences of tackling the weight of horses, known a horse that's had/died from lami, so I don't think the majority here are being judgemental. Some will be coming at it from the POV that their horse is always placed low down in the ring because it is trim. Everyone has an opinion where weight is concerned because it is a welfare issue for horses.
 
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