A real light bulb moment last night that I think could help all CR's

Chloe_GHE

Chloe_GHE

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Last night I had a bit of a 'light bulb moment' and this is how it happened...

I was teaching Soap 'jumping from walk' (as suggested a long time ago by Kerilli but I have only just got round to it!) I had a chum putting the pole up for me, got to about 80/90cms doing it really well, and decided to leave it there with that exercise and come back to it at a later date. To finish off I jumped the upright a few times from canter, counting my rhythm, waiting for the fence, and being soft over it. Without realising we ended up effortlessly jumping 1.05m!!!!
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Lightbulb moment...
Whilst untacking him it dawned on me that I had the same feeling with him just then that I used to have with my old boy, who I used to jump alot at home.
Because we have problems with SJing I thought that the best tact was to have lots of lessons to sort it out, and this has really helped, but when jumping at home because it's a nightmare to try and do anything over 90cms on my own (getting on and off to pick up poles etc) I have just been sticking to small and technical or fixed fences. This means that inadvertantly I haven't been jumping the height to get my/our confidence up ( I know people say it's not the height that matters but to me it is, I want to be confident over fences at lest 5cms higher than I compete at) and I haven't been working things out on my own in my own time and correcting my own mistakes

Having an instructor there when I have been jumping is fab because they can point out your errors and give you exercises to do but I think it was starting to have a negative affect on my confidence in my own ability. They were starting to take on the resemblance of a security blanket!!!!! which is NOT good!

I always approach lessons like 'im a sponge i will take on board and try whatever you say, and be a puppet' now this I think is a good approach because I end up taking a lot away from lesson but negatively I think it has been deminishing my confidence in my own style and riding skills.

Sorry if this is a long winded ramble that doesn't apply to you but I felt really like I had hit on something last night, my main point is...

Instructors and lessons are brilliant but you shouldn't become reliant on them, making enough time to work on your own mistakes, and correct your own errors without being told what you have done wrong is a much more effective lesson learned, and all the training in the world counts for nothing if you don't have the confidence in your own ability, and that can be achieved by practising on your own

I feel really empowered and relieved that I have spotted something, that admitedly was just the seed of an issue but could have turned into something much worse, and nipped it in the bud before it ruined our confidence.

I would be really interested in your thoughts and if you have had similar experiences, and what you do to keep the balance between your independant practising and instruction working well for you

Sorry for long post...

cup of earl grey and a slightly blotchy banana if you get to here!
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Nope completely agree. The people who have the most lessons IMHO arent always the best riders, as they forget about their own "feel" and ability to ride...
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That's exactly it I was loosing my own 'feel' for SJs and because I was loosing it I was doubting my ability, so a bit of a vicious circle! feel really relieved and ready to take the SJing now
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Definitely agree. Too many lessons is just as bad as not enough lessons, imo. It's all about getting the balance right, and knowing that needs change throughout the competition season and then again in the winter.
 
hmm yes, i can see what you mean. there's a lot to be said for a bit of trial and error at home, where you can analyse everything yourself.

i've got to the point now that, when i go for instruction, i have a pretty set idea of what i won't allow to happen. this, unfortunately, is based on very bitter experience - a trainer (very famous) made my young horse do things it absolutely was not ready for, with lasting negative consequences. so, i'm not afraid to say "okay, but can i do it a bit more like 'this'" or "he's not ready for that" or whatever. i have to protect my horse, and myself.
that probably makes me sound like the ultimate nightmare pupil, but actually i don't argue (unless i'm asked to do something waay too hard), i really listen and question and analyse and then try to fit the new ideas into my existing framework of 'what i know works', which obviously varies a bit with the horse i'm on!
i think you have to have some confidence that you have a bit of a system or framework of what you've learned so far, that has worked (more or less) for you. if i were you i'd sit and think about that, write it down if that helps, to get a bit more belief in it if necessary!
 
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Agree totally! I recently jumped at home for the first time in 2 years without an instructor! True but I had come to same conclusion as you that I was relying on them too much. I didn't do loads, but came away feeling as good, if not better, than any lesson I've had.
 
Well it was trial and error really I just set a tiny upright about half a foot high, and walked him to it, squeezed on last stride and he popped it, and then put it up and did the same again. At about 80/90cms he was wanting to put in one trot stride and I was checking him which meant he wasn't really sure if I wanted him to jump or not! So I put it down a hole and popped it again from walk on both reins. That was enough for his brain for now, and I will come back to it to try it a bit higher.
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Try a neckstrap if you think he might jump you off, it defintily is a funnt feeling at first!
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i think you have to have some confidence that you have a bit of a system or framework of what you've learned so far, that has worked (more or less) for you. if i were you i'd sit and think about that, write it down if that helps, to get a bit more belief in it if necessary!

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*hits nail on the head*

that's it I have total confidence in myself and my framework for XC which shows in my results as 13 clears out of 14 BE events, and I have confidence in myself as a dressage rider as he is progressively getting better marks, but SJ I just didn't 'know myself' if that doesn't sound too silly!

I think what works for me (which I have not been doing) is putting up a fence and repeatedly jumping it say about 6 times and each time say/think to myself before I start how am I going to appraoch it/over it/after it then try to do it, then analyse it then try to correct it, and when it goes well try to absorb that feeling and save it.

I'm no tree hugger and I know this all sounds very 'right on' but it's the onyl way I can try to explain it!
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Thanks for the description of the exercise, I might like to try that one, might mean I can do it by myself by putting up fences in increasing heights and doing them one by one.

To be properly stupid though, I am guessing this exercise helps get them into the bottom of the fence and makes them really use their hindquarters? Also might help rider confidence, as you know what your horse is capable of from walk? is that right, or is the point of it something completely different?!

I am getting much better with doing different things when jumping, and not concentrating so much on heights - which I have done in the past
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That's really interesting.
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Teaching and learning feel are imho the hardest things to do and when I teach I am always asking for feedback, making the rider think for themselves. I actually use the phrase 'I don't want to make you my puppet' as what use is that when I'm not there to help guide?
 
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I actually use the phrase 'I don't want to make you my puppet' as what use is that when I'm not there to help guide?

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exactly when someone highlights something you can see their point and agree with it, but it's a different mental process to realise that point for yourself. It's this personal learning not just agreeing and understanding that I think works for me
 
Yes I used it on Soap becasue he is an exracer and wants to use speed to jump, not his hind 1/4s and he likes to go on flyers. It made him wait, think, and jump from his bum to his front legs if that makes sense.

Just imagine someone asks you to jump a pole from walk or standing still, instantly your brain has to think about which bits to move where, and where to generate the impulsion from, but if you were to do it from a run you would have confidence in the speed getting you to the other side.
 
Hmm, I think it might take mine a while to get it so will have to start very low and go slowly, he's not very good at knowing what all hi legs are doing at the same time!

He does not fly at his fences, and is probably more likely to come to a stop before the fence in walk than go over, so will be good for me !!
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the "jumping from walk" exercise was taught to me by an old sjer.
it makes them use their bodies and their brain because they can't use speed. increases proprioception dramatically too. very good for improving front legs.
you have to be absolutely paranoid about not socking them in the chops, the moment they go to take off, try to touch their ears with your hands! it doesn't matter if your weight's in the saddle, but you mustn't sock them in the chops... which is very easy to do as often it is a very abrupt effort, sometimes they shoot skywards until they get the idea.
i did this to improve my homebred (pic on left in siggy) who had no natural scope, style or athleticism, bless her. she was eventually able to walk to 3'6" (halt 2 strides away if necessary if horse starts rushing), she'd take 1 calm walk stride and clear that height. gave us a LOT of confidence for xc!
 
Good point - I suppose a good instructor should help build your confidence in your own feel and decision making ability after all you are on your own when you are jumping a course and its rare to get it spot on over every fence!
No criticism of you or your current tariner intended but when you think of it there are some instrcutors out there who want to create a neediness as it keeps a little income stream going!
 
yes I was concerned about the 'gob socking' element of it so just walked him in on buckle end and that meant if I was a little left behind he still had his head to jump.

Really wierd feeling at first but will deffo persevere with it, he got super tidy front and back when he twigged
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No criticism of you or your current tariner intended but when you think of it there are some instrcutors out there who want to create a neediness as it keeps a little income stream going!

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Yes I think there is an element of that, not sure if instructors set out to do it on purpose but I'm sure some must think they do give lessons to people who they feel would benefit from less lessons and more practise at home, but then what instructor (unless very honest and not needing the money) is going to turn around to their pupil and say I think you should go away and practise on your own, and don't have another lesosn with me for 3 months.

It's a very tricky balance from both sides
 
Probably 30-50% of my lessons are discussion where we talk about it all to check what I am being explained is what I am feeling. I have lessons with one amazing instructor who has so many tools and can describe brilliantly what I should be looking for, asking for and feeling. I always come away from his lessons really pleased and like I can repeat it myself.
 
lec, i love instructors like that.
i went to one dressage instructor once (qualified, quite high profile) who, when i asked a question, got annoyed and said "are you here to ride or to ask questions?"
yeah, that was positive.
 
The lessons I come away most frustrated from are those where I get no feedback and where there are minimal suggestions for improvement. I hate wasting money and feel really let down.

I hate crap instructors more than anything as I feel they are so phoney to be selling 'advice/knowledge' and then to be doing it so badly.
 
Haven't read other posts but frankly, Ive just had a jump lesson and I came off twice, nearly three times (epic getting back on, literally) and now have absolutely ZERO confidence. Im competing friday, and I am wetting myself about going back in the school on Thurs and just popping over 2ft6... Stupid? I prefer to jump with my instructor because I want to know that my canter, for instance, is perfect EVERY time
 
Jules I think you would do your confidence the power of good by just getting a 'pole putter upper' to be there on Thurs and get back into your groove with Zeb without an instructor. Honestly when you get it right on your own it's twice as good for your confidence bank than when someone tells you and you do as they say.

I was where you are now last week, and a little time with just me and the pone sorting things out was worth 3 lessons
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I agree with you. I've seen plenty of people who just don't know how to ride unless their instructor is telling them how to do it. This includes people jumping 1.20 and above who walk the course with them and are told, every step of the way, how they should ride. Of course this is no good because when you're in the ring, you're on your own and if you can't think on your feet, if a problem crops up, you're less likely to get yourself out of it. My instructor is VERY discouraging of his pupils practising on their own so I do tend to have a sneaky jump when he's not about, keeping the fences at around 90cms just in case I DO make a huge cock up
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This is a really interesting thread and one that has hit home a little bit for me...

I always feel quite shaky about going competing if I have not recently had a lesson, and can quite strongly doubt myself when working at home under the same circumstances.

This morning, the saddle fitter came out (wow, what a difference she has made... my lower leg is staying where it should be) and Grace started out a bit sticky and tense through her back. I worked her through lots of transitions, and then asked for a few walk to canters at the end which we only started on Tuesday in a lesson with Spencer. The first walk to canter was simply perfect, she came up in front, stepped through from behind and it was such a lovely canter that I felt really proud of what I had achieved in that session without the help from someone on the ground. OK, I know it is not a huge achievement in the great scheme of things, but I felt confident enough to tackle something new as I just kept it in my head that repetition had made a real difference through the transitions, therefore repetition was what I needed to work on with the walk to canters.
 
Can I ask a question?...

If you had got the same walk to canter transition BUT under instruction would you have felt so pleased with YOURSELF about that?....or would you (as I suspect you would and I do) attribute a bit of that success to the instructor and affectively undermine your own achievement?...
 
I'm really lucky and have a super instructor like yours lec. At the moment we are completely overhauling my position and so half the lesson is spent standing in the middle with my instructor describing how it should feel and she will try all sorts of desciptions until we hit upon one that I truly understand. What I particularly love is that she gives me a sense of direction, in that without her specifically saying it, I know my homework for the next fortnight. Whereas with a couple of instructors I have had lessons where I'm left thinking but what's my homework, where are we going with this. It's those type which I think aren't very helpful in teaching you to think for yourself.
 
I would most probably attribute it to the instructor's input if I am honest... I sometimes feel that I have my best achievements when I am working her on my own even though in fact she probably goes better during my lessons.
 
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I would most probably attribute it to the instructor's input if I am honest... I sometimes feel that I have my best achievements when I am working her on my own even though in fact she probably goes better during my lessons.

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Classic! you completely undermine your own success and give all the credit to someone else! Trust your own ability
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Give yourself more credit and that breeds confidence and confidence breeds success
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Re PapaFrita - I can remember when I was jumping various people who were instructed the whole time they warmed up whilst I would always be on my own totally! Separately I like to have a lesson and then put into practice on my own what I have been taught so that I am working out for myself how to get the same feel and same reaction from the horse as once in the ring you are on your own. I also like to try and work through various issues myself but perhaps get a word or two of advice rather than an actual lesson.
 
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