A really tricky one

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NoseyPosey

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I think I already know what the outcome is going to be but I thought I'd see what you all think and there's certainly a lesson to be learnt. I'll try & keep it simple.

My Stepson bought a lovely little Gypsy Cob last year with some money he'd earnt from a part time job he'd had previously. Enthusiasm was great at first but more often than not, his Mum and I were left to see to him (although we would be going to see to the others anyway). Stepson's not worked properly since & when he realised he couldn't afford to look after the horse mentioned that he wanted to sell. Thinking that he would regret selling in the long run, I offered to take the horse on but wouldn't be able to pay for him for a while. Unfortunately the little fella had to be PTS a while back due to suspected worm damage from way back and I still have quite a large vets bill to pay for him. As mentioned, Stepson hasn't had a proper job since leaving school a couple of years ago, and it's always niggled me a bit that he's happy to sit around the house & not offer to contribute to food etc. but now he's run out of money and made it quite clear that he expects the money for the horse that is no longer with us. I've chatted to his Mum about it and she's siding with him saying that I have bought the horse and should now pay him, fair & square.

Had he been contributing a token amount towards his upkeep or even attempting to get out & find work then I would be happy to sort something out but a) given that it appears that he has put off getting a job and instead rely on the money coming from the horse b) I thought I was helping him out, c) I have a large vet bill still to pay and d) it was still a family animal, what should I do? :(
 
Tell your stepson to grow up!
I do not see you have anything to pay him, if anything he owes you for the vet bills.
 
Unfortunately, and unless I have read it wrong, you had bought the horse from him even though you hadn't paid him for it, you had agreed to pay him. I am not saying that I think it is fair because I don't, far from it, but that is how it reads to me. I am sure you can fight it out but it depends on how bothered you are about causing a rift, I would be tempted to tell him to go and whistle and take it from there.

If you look at it from his point of view, had you not said you would buy the horse it would have been sold and he would have had his money.
 
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Give him the money for the animal (it's the right thing to do, and I assume we're only talking a couple of hundred quid), and then present him with a bill for board & lodging.
 
Rosieshire said:
I think I already know what the outcome is going to be but I thought I'd see what you all think and there's certainly a lesson to be learnt. I'll try & keep it simple.

My Stepson bought a lovely little Gypsy Cob last year with some money he'd earnt from a part time job he'd had previously. Enthusiasm was great at first but more often than not, his Mum and I were left to see to him (although we would be going to see to the others anyway). Stepson's not worked properly since & when he realised he couldn't afford to look after the horse mentioned that he wanted to sell. Thinking that he would regret selling in the long run, I offered to take the horse on but wouldn't be able to pay for him for a while. Unfortunately the little fella had to be PTS a while back due to suspected worm damage from way back and I still have quite a large vets bill to pay for him. As mentioned, Stepson hasn't had a proper job since leaving school a couple of years ago, and it's always niggled me a bit that he's happy to sit around the house & not offer to contribute to food etc. but now he's run out of money and made it quite clear that he expects the money for the horse that is no longer with us. I've chatted to his Mum about it and she's siding with him saying that I have bought the horse and should now pay him, fair & square.

Had he been contributing a token amount towards his upkeep or even attempting to get out & find work then I would be happy to sort something out but a) given that it appears that he has put off getting a job and instead rely on the money coming from the horse b) I thought I was helping him out, c) I have a large vet bill still to pay and d) it was still a family animal, what should I do? :(
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How long did you have the horse for? If it wasn't long before it needed pts, I'd try making noises about taking him to court for selling you a worm riddled horse. You wouldn't have much of a case but it might just get him to forget trying to get money from you for a horse which doesn't sound like it was much good to you and which you did him a favor by taking on.
 
I take it his Dad (and, presumably, your OH) is keeping a very low profile here? Given that it's his son I think you should consider agreeing a mutual standpoint.
 
amymay said:
Give him the money for the animal (it's the right thing to do, and I assume we're only talking a couple of hundred quid), and then present him with a bill for board & lodging.
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This ^^

Or, sort out the agreed price, then take off what it cost you to keep till it was PTS, as step son should have been paying for its feed/hay/feet/worming etc :)
 
ooh I say that is a tricky one particularly with the dreaded 'f' word fffffamily *shudders*

In black and white terms you agreed to buy the horse and the fact that he then later died :( doesn't let you off the paying for him hook I don't think.

However, as you forked out for a vet bill I might be inclined to pay what the stepson paid for him (hoping it isn't very much) or poss half as a gesture of goodwill or possibly £100 with the additional bit of advice to get off his backside and earn his way in the world :cool:
 
This, or a mutual agreement that the horse was given to you in lieu of rent?
Was trying to quote amymay but messed it up.
 
amymay said:
Give him the money for the animal (it's the right thing to do, and I assume we're only talking a couple of hundred quid), and then present him with a bill for board & lodging.
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This! presumably he is old enough to earn a wage and should be contributing to the running of the household.

Being too soft on them isn't a good thing in my opinion, they need to realise that the world doesn't just hand them everything on a plate and it has to be earned.

I'd also send him to the jobcentre and get him to sign on, they will make sure he at least turns up for interviews and it's a good incentive to find a job.

The easier it is to stay at home doing nothing then the longer it will take to find a job.
 
RebelRebel said:
However, as you forked out for a vet bill I might be inclined to pay what the stepson paid for him (hoping it isn't very much) or poss half as a gesture of goodwill or possibly £100 with the additional bit of advice to get off his backside and earn his way in the world :cool:
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But the vet bill was down to the poster (I'm assuming) as she 'owned' the horse by then, not down to the step son. So she is liable for it, not step son.
 
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Lazy lads, do my head in, tell your OH to get him out from under your feet, stop giving him money and food.
You only took the pony on to help him out, if he wants money, let him earn it, somewhere else.
I took one on for a few days work [desperate times call for desperate measures], he did not know what work meant, I only kept quiet because my pony was at his parents farm, otherwise I would have dropped him at the first bus stop after sixty minutes of being useless.
Twenty one years old and never done a day's work in his life.
 
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amymay said:
Give him the money for the animal (it's the right thing to do, and I assume we're only talking a couple of hundred quid), and then present him with a bill for board & lodging.
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Agree with this though I'd go as far as saying that as he owes you so much for board and lodging you are keeping some back (which will pay vet) He needs to grow up and find something to do even if it is stacking shelves; what would he have lived on if he hadn't sold pony to you, does he think food and household costs come from thin air; why should you be out of pocket for his laziness?
 
Nothing was put in writing, it's only a couple of hundred quid ( less than the vet's bill!!!) and he was only "officially" my horse for a few months really. To be fair, the horse did come to us with worms & was sorted (or so we thought) pretty much straight away but it's thought that the damage had been caused way back before Stepson bought him and couldn't have known. I originally said that I couldn't pay him the full amount straight away and that it would have to be in installments. To add to this, I had offered to give him bits of it whilst the horse was still with us but each time, he said it was ok, not to worry yet.

Time after time I've suggested that he give a token amount of £20 a week towards board & lodging and that might emphasise the importance of working but instead his Mum has got round that by saying that he has helped her out on the odd occasion and sometimes buys fizzy drink etc. I did say to her that if he is insistant that I pay him the full amount then it will be accompanied by a bill for back rent & half the vet's bill but she is taken the view that if I had let him sell it elsewhere then it's the last we would have heard about it & he would have had his money.

There 2 seperate issues here really I suppose and she says that I can't use one of them to fix the other but unfortunately it's his attitude which is annoying me and I can't tackle one without feeling aggrieved about the other.
 
Rosieshire said:
There 2 separate issues here really I suppose and she says that I can't use one of them to fix the other but unfortunately it's his attitude which is annoying me and I can't tackle one without feeling aggrieved about the other.
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Yep, that's bottom line.

Actually, though, I think there are probably 3......

Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
I think you should pay but say that from now on he pays a fixed amount of rent to you each week. Agree it with his mum and get her to back you up.
 
Rosieshire said:
Time after time I've suggested that he give a token amount of £20 a week towards board & lodging and that might emphasise the importance of working but instead his Mum has got round that by saying that he has helped her out on the odd occasion and sometimes buys fizzy drink etc. I did say to her that if he is insistant that I pay him the full amount then it will be accompanied by a bill for back rent & half the vet's bill but she is taken the view that if I had let him sell it elsewhere then it's the last we would have heard about it & he would have had his money.
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If that's the case then I think it is a good idea for him to pay a token amount towards his board and lodgings, even if it is just a tenner a week, and if he does do any jobs around the place then you can pay him, that way he is at least doing something for the money.

It sounds like it is more an issue between you and your oh and perhaps both of you sitting down and coming to some sort of compromise might be worth a try. Mothers instinctively want to protect and look after their offspring and can become defensive if they feel threatened by anyone making life 'difficult' for their precious, speaking from experience :o :p However, once she can come to an understanding that allowing her son to be a lazy so and so isn't in his best interests, (after all when he gets his own place and wants a family he is going to have to have a decent work ethic,) and employment brings its own sense of worth and usefulness as well as confidence, so it is the best thing for all concerned.

I also think it is best to present a united front about house rules.

Good luck!
 
Take the family bit outt he equation - makes it easier.

So - you bought a horse, agreeing to pay at a later date.

The condition of the horse is really irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion.

The horse turns out to be unwell, you incur vets bills, the horse doesn't make it, so you have additional costs for disposal.

Really it is no different to buying at the mart - you buy it unseen and are responsible for the circumstances.

If you bought a horse and 3 months later it died - even due to an illness which was pre-existing - if you didn't have it vetted and cannot prove the seller was hiding something from you - there's really nothing you can do.

So in terms of what is legally correct - you owe the stepson the purchase price of the horse, and you are entirely responsible for all of the costs associated with the horse from the day you bought it.

Morally and ethically i do agree with you, and stepson probably should waive the purchase price of the horse.....

The fact of him being a lazy oik is another matter - but one his parents needs to deal with. Does he live with you?

If he does, then you need to get your husband on side and the stepson either pays the going rate for board...and gets a job to pay for it, or he moves out.

If he doesn't live with you, then you again speak to your husband about being stricter and not bailing the boy out... but its very difficult for you to do any more than that!
 
Flummoxed said:
I'm inclined to agree with Amymay but have to ask - why does his father not back you up?
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I'm the stepfather :rolleyes:

She has always thought that I'm harsh expecting him to pay a regular amount towards F&B. I have always said that I will meet people halfway and if he showed the slightest hint of trying then I will help. He is in the process of trying to join the forces but I can't help feel it's only to keep us off his back, it's a hard job trying to get him motivated and it could take months really, if at all. There are actually plenty of jobs around here but he has turned his nose up at some which he feels are too hard or below him. Which makes me even more angry :mad:
 
You are not being harsh he should be working. Mum is not doing him any favours letting him sit around. In your position I would put my foot down gently but firmly
 
You have my sympathy, you have to get your wife on the same page as you before you do anything. For harmony think of a compromise then discuss it with your wife i.e. think of a weekly amount for his keep and deduct this form cost of the horse. My stepson is gone for now thank god but seemed to think paying £30 a week was doing us a favour. Me and his father had many rows about it. Try to keep calm (not easy I know):(
 
OK thanks everyone. I think what I'm going to do after consideration is offer to pay him back in very small amounts after paying everything else in order of amount - eg. That's mortgage, that's utilities, food, vets etc. and here's horse money out of what's left (which leaves nothing for takeaways, giving him lifts etc. ;) . That way his Mum sees me paying him back but he sees how life really is maybe? Hopefully soon he'll be off & after seeing life away from the comfort of home he'll see sense.
 
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He owes you that much in board and lodgings - AT LEAST that much. You owe him nothing but a clip round the ear. He's a lucky sod - I'd have booted him up the backside long ago. Irresponsible brat. What is the matter with his mother, is my next question!

Ah - you posted a second before me. It's just what I'd do :)
 
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