A small moan! Why don't people know basic horse colours????!!!

I went with a friend to look at an 11yo blue roan - well, that's what it said he was on his passport (done as a foal) He was probably a steel grey which had, by 11 years lightened considerably to lightly dappled on his knees and hocks. Still sdvertised as blue roan, though! He's now very fleabitten.
 
Please can someone tell me in simple terms :D the difference between Dun and Buckskin. My boy says Dun on his passport but i think he looks closer in colour to the Buckskin in enfys pic, his mane and tail is black with some redish highlights four white stockings, a white splash on his tummy, and occasionaly i think he may have a faint dorsal stripe, but definately no stripey markings :confused::confused:

Thank you :)
 
EAST KENT said:
Well..OK is`nt a chesnut with a flaxen mane and tail called Sorrel in the US?? Saw an ad recently for a gorgeous mare ,"overo sabino" by description..she was VERY pretty:D Anyway mine are "yellow dun"..or Buckskin in US language,and my irish mare is Black in the winter,but very dark brown in summertime..BUT I always was told a Brown had to have a browney muzzle..and blacks don`t..so ,yes,BLACK!! :D:D
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Just to confuse you further a dun is NOT a buckskin, there is a dun gene which causes dun and then there is a cream gene which causes either buckskin on a bay coat, smokey black on a black coat and polomino on a chestnut coat, two dun genes are either a cremello on a chestnut or perlino on a bay/black coat :)
 
Slightly related but we once drove past a field and my sister (about 7 at the time) shouted "oooh look, piebalds!!"










They were cows!! She's now 24 and we've never let her forget it!! :D :D :D
 
I have a bright bay TB who is orange when clipped, dark in the winter and a striking copper colour in the summer with white flecks and dapples, on the underside of her belly she has a white patch?? she also has leopard spots on her sock...........
Does anyone else have a TB with a white patch?!
 
daydreambeliever said:
Please can someone tell me in simple terms :D the difference between Dun and Buckskin. My boy says Dun on his passport but i think he looks closer in colour to the Buckskin in enfys pic, his mane and tail is black with some redish highlights four white stockings, a white splash on his tummy, and occasionaly i think he may have a faint dorsal stripe, but definately no stripey markings :confused::confused:

Thank you :)
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Dun generally causes a dorsal stripe and striping on the legs and often 'cobwebbing' on the inner thigh, your boy sounds like a buckskin rather than a dun tbh. The white splash is another gene altogether ?sabino (someone into the coloured genes will confirm this).
 
cobface said:
I have a bright bay TB who is orange when clipped, dark in the winter and a striking copper colour in the summer with white flecks and dapples, on the underside of her belly she has a white patch?? she also has leopard spots on her sock...........
Does anyone else have a TB with a white patch?!
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Oooh interesting! She is probably a bay carrying red and perhaps rabicano along with other genes too. The patch used to be called 'blagden' but I am pretty sure it is the sabino gene too. Is she pure TB?
 
Incomming massive colour geek. :)

I would actualy rather a horse was refered to descriptively as 'brownish' or 'beige' than people picked out the colour they think sounds prettyest and use that when it is incorrect. I often have 'SOMEONE is WRONG on the INTERNET' moments with colour and have to breathe deeply and realise it matters a lot less than I like to think. For anyone who wants to know please read on, if not feel free to ignore.

Hokay, dun and buckskin - as allready stated Dun causes dorsal stripes and leg barring, yellow dun on bay, blue/mouse dun (grullo in eth US) on black and fox/red dun on chestnut.

Cream causes buckskin on a bay base, palomino on chestnut and smoky black (looks black) on a black base when heterozygous (only one creame gene). When there are 2 cream genes (homozygous) you get a Perlino, cremello or smoky cream respectively.

Very few native british breeds carry dun other than the Highland and they have their own naming culture which even I can't work out :P.

White patterns :)

Piebald - black and white (any pattern)
Skewbald - not-black and white (any pattern) - covers chestnut and white and bay and white. - unless people are using tri-coloured for bay and white which irritates me for some reason.

Tobiano - a white pattern that causes leg white, v shapes on the neck, streaks up the back of the quarters, usualy leaves colour patches on the chest and flank (often called shields). Most UK gypsy cobs/coloureds are tobiano often with sabino or splash.

Overo - means not tobiano.

Lethal White Overo/OLW/LWO/Frame/Frame overo - clasic cow pony pattern, rarely seen in british breeds common in paint horses. Splatted on from the side look, can cause blue eyes. When heterozygous pretty pattern, when homozygous causes feotal abnormalities which prevent the foal surviving more than a week after birth. The test is $25 from UC Davis and they will accept overseas requests, if you think you horse may carry it TEST. Bear in mind that it can be minimal to the point of one sock or look different because the horse also carries tobiano/sabino. Minis are the only critters in the UK likely to carry it though there is a frame positive TB arruond somewhere.

Sb1 - heterozygous, socks and a blaze maybe a belly splat/roaning, Homozygous - nearly white horse, no blue eyes.

Splash - paint dipped look, blue eyes, descriptive term as there is no test and no gene has been isolated.

Sabino - anything not explained by tobiano, frame, SB1 or splash. :)

Dominant white - causes white horses, most all white TB's (that arent grey) are dominant white, different families carry different strains. Homzygous lethal before birth.

:) Massive hot chocolates for anyone who got through that.
 
SirenaXVI said:
Just to confuse you further a dun is NOT a buckskin, there is a dun gene which causes dun and then there is a cream gene which causes either buckskin on a bay coat, smokey black on a black coat and polomino on a chestnut coat, two dun genes are either a cremello on a chestnut or perlino on a bay/black coat :)
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Duh I meant cream causing cremello/perlino I confused myself there lol!
 
I remember when the equine vet came to do Mum's pony's passport. Now, Benji was a gem of a Heinz mix - a 14.3hh jack of all trades who would have taken you safely to visit the neighbours 100 years ago or done a spot of hunting if needed or pulled a cart to get the shopping.

The vet looked at the Passport and looked at Benji. Hmmm. Breed and colour. *more head scratching* eventually, he wrote:

Brown pony.
 
SirenaXVI said:
Just to confuse you further a dun is NOT a buckskin, there is a dun gene which causes dun and then there is a cream gene which causes either buckskin on a bay coat, smokey black on a black coat and polomino on a chestnut coat, two dun genes are either a cremello on a chestnut or perlino on a bay/black coat :)
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Well my Manual of Horsemanship said that SOME duns have a dorsel stripe and bars on the legs, so I will continue to call yellow horses with black manes and tails dun - so there! :p :D
 
I'd quite like folk to know their breeds let alone the colours.

HE IS NOT A FJORD HORSE JUST BECAUSE HE IS A BUCKSKIN!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


and breathe

AND NO HE DOES NOT "WALK FUNNY", HE IS TÖLTING!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

and breathe!


Next equine I get will be pink and glittery and then at least everyone will recognise "My Little Pony".

and breathe!
 
Brilliant :)

I likey.

I think one of the ponies I rode at the RS (my fave) was described on his passport as "roan pony, no distinguishing markings, missing top of left ear."
 
Faracat said:
Apologies for the moan but I have been browsing the horse ads looking for a nice cob and again and again people have the colour of their horse wrong!

Grrrrr!!!!!!!

When people don't know what colour the horse is it doesn't give a good impression for the rest of the ad.
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Perhaps the people in question just dont worry about the small stuff in life. ;)
Horse colours are simple
Black
Brown
Orange
White
Beige
Grey
Cow colour
Mix any of the above to give a more accurate description :p
 
"So ,if dun..which my highland mare is..was covered by ,say, a buckskin QH..what then?? This thread is fun! "

The results and percentage chances vary depending on whether the dun is homozygous and what they are carrying in the saw of agout/extension (bay/red or black respectively).

But if the foal is a bay base with cream from the sire and dun from your mare theeennnn you get a dunskin or buckskin dun. Slightly lighter than a normal dun (usualy) with chocolatey/fainter rather than black dorsal stripe and leg barring.

One can also get dunalinos - dun + cream on red (dun and palomino)
and smoky grullos - dun + cream on black.

:)
 
so what colour is Harry? it says blue roan on his passport..i took him in a piebald,skewbald and spotted class and the judge said he wasnt eligible :confused: he's got blue dappled patches and black spots- what did she want- unicorn horn? :p
Harrytrotting.jpg
 
cobface said:
I have a bright bay TB who is orange when clipped, dark in the winter and a striking copper colour in the summer with white flecks and dapples, on the underside of her belly she has a white patch?? she also has leopard spots on her sock...........
Does anyone else have a TB with a white patch?!
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True Colours on here breeds them, she has the beautiful Puchi Trap who had a palomino (I think, overo) colt this year to Guaranteed Gold.

http://www.angelfire.com/on3/TrueColoursFarm/foals.html

There is another breeder here (Angrove Stud perhaps) who has a coloured horse in training.
 
Well I've got a Ginger Girlie, who's passport says she is Bay, honest she is ginger...... Also have a brown one, who was bay when she came to me 13 years ago, but has over time turned brown with white flecks in her coat, but in winter she is almost grey when clipped, also have a cow print one and a grey with chocolate chips, who was dapple when he first came to me 17 years ago, he had a dark mane and tail, which is almost white, slight hint of green at the moment...lol.......
 
Enfys, Puchi Trap is dominate white not overo.

Kokopelli,
There are two genes - LP & PATN.
LP allows the patterns to show, where as PATN is the pattern.
You need at least on LP gene for PATN to show. So you can have a horse that has PATN, but it won't show - but breed to a horse with LP gene/s, and you have the possibility to get a spotty foal.
There are two PATN genes - PATN1 & PATN2. What PATN genes a horse has, determines what spotty pattern they have.
So for the leopard pattern, your horse will be Lp/lp (one copy of the LP gene) and have one copy of PATN1.

(that is the very simple version, there are a lot of variables, such as white suppression & expression genes)

Marmalade, NED not listing buckskin as a colour is a error on their part, which really should be changed.
 
One person i overheard one day at a show, with a chestnut hafliger said that she would ask more for it since it was a "palomino" according to her.
 
I don't really get colours at all.....I thought haflingers were palomino! Hey-ho, Monty was 'I think' a dark bay, 17hh tb gelding.

His passport said he was a 16hh black MARE! :D

Even though I'm thick about colours, at least I know if it's a boy or a girl!
 
I'm afraid that when it comes to colour most registries and the NED are pretty....basic? completely wrong at times? It can be a little irritating when trying to trace colours through pedigrees but it isn't the end of the world.

A leopard spot appaloosa? why does someone always have to bring up appaloosa? ok what follows for anyone who is interested is what I understand of the current theories but there is no test yet and it is certainly not concrete.

Theory - there are two 'types' of gene responsible for appaloosa patterns, Lp and the Patn complex. It is thought that Lp causes characteristics and 'lights up' patterns but if it is homozygous the 'light is too bright'. Patn gives the spotted patterns and it is thought that different Patn genes give different 'size' patterns.

So
Lplp patn patn (heterozygous Lp with no patn) = slow roaning snowflake/appaloosa roan.
LpLp patn patn (homozygous Lp with no patn) = fast roaning snowflake/appaloosa roan.
Lplp Patn (heterozygous Lp with patn [doesnt matter if hetero/hom]) = Spotted blanket/leopard
LpLp Patn (homozygous Lp with patn [doesnt matter if hetero/hom]) = Fewspot/snowcap.

It is thought that there are different Patn genes that cause the differing blanket sizes/full leopard/fewspot

e.g. Patn1 = Leopard/fewspot, Patn2 = meduim blanket/snowcap, Patn3 = small blanket/snowcap.

So a near leopard would be Lplp Patn1Patn2 one Patn is saying 'be all spotty' and one is saying 'be blanket spot' and the result is in between.

This is just theory at the moment though.
 
apparently we might be about to start testing for purple and chocolate cats at work ;) colour genetics are fun really!

blitzandbobs pony bay roan I would also know as a red roan. as opposed to chestnut being a strawberry.

Frank is multiple chestnuts depending on the time of year. He is passported as liver but it depends on the time of year. He has a lighter mane and tail but I would say not true flaxen though the longer his mane the more flaxen it looks! :)
 
Sad as it is I love genetics, It is so facinating how such a tiny misinterpretation in copying the codes can have such amazingly pretty results.
 
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