A sore subject for some, backing A 2YR PONY

Fools Motto

Fools Motto

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 June 2011
Messages
6,600
Visit site
I know HHO well enough that most of you will throw your arms in the air, mouth open and many :eek::eek: moments when anyone mentions backing a 2yr.
We all know that TB's are often backed by/at 2, and probably many gypsy type ponies too. (I'm not even going to mention the Irish, or Dragon Driving! - ops, I just did!)

But anyway... My 2yr filly is currently VERY bored, very playful and TBH sometimes walking through her field checking the fence and things is like some sort of dangerous firing range game - she can come a bit too full on and kick out/whip round and leap about, in MY/YOUR space.
Although very good to do generally, she has got over cocky. Last year she was bitted as it meant everyone was safe when we took her for walks on her long line. She has worn a few rugs just for 'practice', done an in hand obstical (sp) course thingy, and has led off mine for all of 2 mins out on the lane. She has worn an elastic sersingle (bad spelling today?!) too.
Generally talking to 2 other horsey people earlier and they suggested that she could easily be sat on, and taken for a 10 min walk once or twice a week - for nothing else other than to get her brain occupied, and to be more independant from my mare. I did say my orignal plans were to get a lighter-than-me person to back her next summer, in the meantime do much what I did last year this year... but thats not going to be enough for little filly features according to those.
Anyway, it did get me thinking... I DO want to get her mind busy, get her less cocky - and make her think about something other than trying to get into the adjacent field by chewing a whole in the hedge!!!!
Am I going to be told off for even thinking it?? Most likely..BUT what if it DOES make a difference in her behaviour, for the best lets hope!

BTW, she is a NF ... about 12.3/13hh currently.
 
could you not keep her mind busy in other ways? Clicker train some useful behaviours that will come in handy in later life for example? Things like lowering her head on demand, picking up and holding up her feet, picking things up off the ground (useful if you drop something on a hack in a few years time) etc? I know I'm always suggesting clicker training but I think it's a great way of helping horses to burn off some excess brain power :)
 
:mad: I'm Irish.

I wouldn't even think of backing her until she's at least three, preferably four! Besides, from your post, it sounds as if you have a long way to go with her first - she needs to have better manners on the ground, so work on that. Aside from this plenty of turnout with other horses to let her learn horse stuff.

She cannot be allowed to endanger anyone who enters her field. Sort this out first, OP. If she doesn't respect you on the ground, she won't respect you on her back either.
 
Personally, I wouldn't. If she's bored in the field does she not have another youngster/ playful friend to play with. If you feel she needs more activity I'd just lead her on short hacks from another or walk in hand a few times a week.
 
Arizahn said:
:mad: I'm Irish.

I wouldn't even think of backing her until she's at least three, preferably four! Besides, from your post, it sounds as if you have a long way to go with her first - she needs to have better manners on the ground, so work on that. Aside from this plenty of turnout with other horses to let her learn horse stuff.

She cannot be allowed to endanger anyone who enters her field. Sort this out first, OP. If she doesn't respect you on the ground, she won't respect you on her back either.
Click to expand...

Sorry re Irish! (many English hunters have hunted before arriving in england rising 4!)

She is good to do, but is ever so playful out in the field - out 24/7 (and currently starting her training at being stabled without jumping out!) I don't want anyone who walks through getting hurt, I just have to have eyes in the back of my head, but many don't I doubt!
I can pick out her feet, groom her all over catch. lead her about and tie her up. I only have 2, and my mare is now 16 and WAY past the 'lets play again' stage, although she is clearly boss and puts filly in her place.
 
Fools Motto said:
How do you reward for clicker training... I want to avoid hand treats.
Click to expand...

Varies as to what the horse reacts to, but I know people who's horses are happy with a scratch on the withers as a reward. Or else throw the treat on the ground ;) seriously, it does work... The point it that the click eventually becomes the reward in itself
 
Elfen said:
Lots of ground work and long reining?
Click to expand...

I'd be the first to admit, I'm not all that great at long lining, and would HATE to cock it up on a youngster.
I've done it on my mare, and we taught each other, but she was about 6 and 'a pro' then! I've done it with a few others, but all had extra help on hand, I'm on my own with this one!
 
Personally I wouldn't. Too young in my opinion! There are tons of things you could do on the ground with her though so get her thinking!

In-hand walks
Long reining
Wearing tack
In hand showing
Clicker training
Bombproofing
 
Arizahn said:
I wouldn't even think of backing her until she's at least three, preferably four! Besides, from your post, it sounds as if you have a long way to go with her first - she needs to have better manners on the ground, so work on that. Aside from this plenty of turnout with other horses to let her learn horse stuff.

She cannot be allowed to endanger anyone who enters her field. Sort this out first, OP. If she doesn't respect you on the ground, she won't respect you on her back either.
Click to expand...

This^^^^
I have a pesky 2 year old and she is just starting to test me out. We go for lots of walks to meet cars and tractors and browse the hedgerows. I have clicker trained her to do tricks(head down,back up and spin) she loves doing this........But she still tries to move my feet now and then ,just to check my suitability as the leader. A little trick I do is to carry a lead rope behind my back. When I hear her approaching(or see the shadow) I flick/swish the rope as a horse would swish the tail as a reminder to respect personal space.
Training a youngster is an amazing thing to do.The 'backing' is the easy bit,which should come when all the foundations are in place. Take your time and enjoy the harder job of laying those foundations..
 
Sounds to me like she's trying to play with you in the field - if she doesn't have any young company out there, and your mare isn't up for playing - she's just bored and looking for someone to muck about with.

She is to young to be ridden -and I don't think a ten minute walk down the road is going to make any difference - it's a playmate she's after. She might be kept busy while you're doing stuff with her, but she's still going to be bored and up to mischief for the remaining 23h. Can you not borrow another baby to keep her occupied?
 
I wouldn't get on her. She won't be phsyically or mentally ready and you don't want her to freak out and it have a long term impact on her riding career. There is so much more you can do with her on the ground to prepare her, done well and consistently it will tire her out more than just shoving someone on board and leading her up the road. Taking her out for walks either by hand or off another horse is an excellent way of engaging her brain and teaching her about the world without straining her joints or putting pressure on her growth plates. I'd pursue clicker too. Good luck.
 
Even if you did back her and ride for a short time twice a week where does it lead to she will soon get bored with walking the same as she does with other things and you will feel the need to do more.
I think they are best left out with others entertaining themselves, she needs to respect you on the ground and learn that it is manners with people, playing is with her friends could you turn her out with a group of others.
I would not back anything until the summer it is 3, Irish horses may be hunting at 4 but most will only just be backed when they go out, not having spent 2 years being brought on first.
 
Thanks everyone.

I've never been one to 'clicker train', (and therefore not really thought about it) but i'm willing to give that a go as my first port of call. (I could chop up some carrot bits and put them on the floor for her??)

Secondly, I shall ask my boss (who long lines the TB 2yr olds) to help and get us started correctly.

I think that is a good route to go along.
 
Fools Motto I have your horses twin I think, she is going to be three in june,she was bought in foal as a yearling and I posted on here about her nearly dying as she could not get up after we had to lift her in a sling.

We thought all this would stunt her growth,well she is a huge brute now and is a horror in the field she has plenty of youngstock to play with but has a few spacial issues when if flight towards you in the field.

You really have to watch your back when getting others from her field she is not nasty just full of it, she is good to catch lead etc but loves to learn a new trick the latest is threatening to jump out of the field if taking others away it will be something else next week.

She is good when doing things with her but left to her own devices is a little bizzim she is very clever, we lead her out she is bitted and wears her tack happily and she loves going out with the other horses and joining in it stops her getting bored,she lives out so I dread to think what she would be like if she was in.
Pretty much she is happy to do anything as long as she is getting attention and is not being left out.

She also on a regular basis jumps the fences as four of our fields are opened in to one instead of going to the gate, some horses just need something to do but we will not be backing her until later on.

I think even if you do not want to long rein out if you could lead out with another horse getting them out of their own little comfort zone helps to mentally tire them which is a good thing with busy types.
 
Here we go... Mine was 2 and a half. I was 6 stone.
We happily walked about for 10 minutes bareback. He is a big strong highland, was then, I was light? He was happy- dont see the issue. Bailey wasnt too bum high or youngster looking either. We went a couple of short walks round the housing estate, good experience in my opinion. But all youngsters are different, mine was mentally and physically ready to doddle about for 10 minutes ;) I now have a happy nearly five year old, who has never been lame, is fabulous on roads and has no pain issues.
Controversy here we go. I stop my posts there ;) x
 
Exactly how old is she? Is she rising 3 this spring or just turned 2?

ALL the affiliated pony showing societies take a pony's age from 1 January so the early winter shows in Jan/Feb have a lot of rising 4yo being shown under saddle and you are not telling me that they have only just been broken to behave the way they do.

I have a Welsh A who will be 4 in May - I took him out in hand all last summer so he is very used to huge affiliated shows - seen it, done it. My daughter crawled all over him when he was rising 3 and sat on him into his 3rd year but not a lot and she is only 3st! We turned him away from August through to January when he did nothing - no showing, nothing. She still only walks and trots him - he has never cantered on the lunge or under any tack for more than 6/7 strides.

He has been to 3 x affiliated shows this year and has qualified for BSPS winter, PUK winter and Equifest in LR classes.

Use your common sense and take it gently!
 
ommon sense says your field is probably small and she has little company? Find a herd style environment on bigger fields and you won't have the same problem.
 
be positive said:
Even if you did back her and ride for a short time twice a week where does it lead to she will soon get bored with walking the same as she does with other things and you will feel the need to do more.
I think they are best left out with others entertaining themselves, she needs to respect you on the ground and learn that it is manners with people, playing is with her friends could you turn her out with a group of others.
I would not back anything until the summer it is 3, Irish horses may be hunting at 4 but most will only just be backed when they go out, not having spent 2 years being brought on first.
Click to expand...

SusieT said:
ommon sense says your field is probably small and she has little company? Find a herd style environment on bigger fields and you won't have the same problem.
Click to expand...

These were also my general thoughts. My youngsters live in mixed age herds in large fields and ive genuinely never felt any of them were bored living like this.
 
Just the two of them ATM in a 6 acre field - about to be fenced off as too much grass... but fencing it off also worries me as it is more for her to play with - she picks the plastic fence posts out!!
She will officially be 2 in 12 days.

(And for what is it worth, was only thinking about sitting on in August when have more time due to work commitments.)

Like I said before, I wasn't planning to anyway this year at all. Just that it was suggested that I did and the suggestion comes from someone I trust and respect and they assured me it won't do any harm. I will do what I had planned, and stick to it.... F M is determined to do things her way -- for once!
 
Nothing you have suggested is logical. 20min with someone on her back a week won't keep her mind occupied... It leaves quite a few hours.... That's a stupid excuse, clutching at straws for reasons why you 'can' do it. There's so much to do before sitting on a horse anyway. Why don't you just spend time with her long reining and getting her used to REAL tack slowly so that she is relaxed, happy and comfortable. Do more riding and leading from another horse and introduce her to traffic etc. It doesn't sound like you've done a lit with her tbh, irrelevant of age I wouldn't be looking to sit on a horse after so little preparation. There's a reason so many people on hho will slate backing a horse at this age. Just because gypsies and racers do it doesn't make it right.
 
If you are going to try clicker training (and I recommend it highly for cheeky youngsters - mine has responded beautifully to it) then i would suggest you get a book to learn how to do it properly. For example google Alexandra Kurland. I used her starter training kit.

Proper clicker training will stop any mouthiness. My youngster was really mouthy when i first got him but thanks to clicker training he a) has to work hard and behave well to get the tiniest bit of carrot our of me and b) when I click he knows to stand absolutely still with his head slightly away from me (so the opposite of mugging me!) and I bring the treat to him not the other way around. Clicker training isn't the only thing I do but it has helped no end with a few issues we had on the ground, like having feet picked up (he used to be a right so and so!), halting and backing up etc. Done properly its a fantastic tool to have under your belt.

I agree with what others have said. I am not an expert but I would leave backing as late as possible. Mine was backed at 2 1/2 (before I got him) and I bought him as a fully backed and schooled 'anyone can ride him on the buckle' 3 yr old however, sweet as he is, it quickly became apparent he had done too much too young. It didn't help that his old tack (that he came with so presumably had been ridden in) was ill fitting but he was clearly uncomfortable under saddle and it was decided (my instincts plus sound advice from professionals) that he needed more time to mature physically and mentally. So he is taking a break from being ridden

I am doing groundwork only with him and will leave it another 6 months until I get him professionally restarted under saddle again (he is rising 4 now and I am going to wait until he is coming up for 4 1/2). I do groundwork with him, clicker training and have just bought an equi-ball to keep him interested.
 
Last edited:
She has been led out on roads, on her own and a few times from my mare. I've walked her through a stream and a ford and many puddles too, she has also been to 3 shows, she has moved yards, travelled in our trailer perfectly and a lorry. She has lost our old companion, met a new old horse and escaped into the neighbours field! She has been bitted, been out with cows, helped me herd them up too! She has seen coloured poles, 'scary' farm machinary (which were not scary at all!) Been led through a road works past hedge cutters and walked over a tarporline. She has worn a rug, and a sersingle. I groom her while she eats her feed, my daughter gives her lots of cuddles - they adore each other! What else should I have done??
I'm not 'good enough' to handle 2 lines as in long lining - in my eyes my co-ordination isn't good, and she is very quick but it is something I want to do - with help. I don't have an arena where I'm at the moment.
 
Fools Motto said:
Sorry re Irish! (many English hunters have hunted before arriving in england rising 4!)
Click to expand...

I'll back you up on that FM, it is common for 4 year old Irish horses to arrive in this country already having hunted at 3. OK not every Irish person does it but far too many do.

I you really mean 10 minutes 2 or 3 times a week and no more, then I'd go with the idea of backing her for the fun of it for her and for you.
 
Take him out and lead him from your other horse when you go for quiet hacks. Wont hurt him, will take the edge off him and prevent boredom. Dont ride him.
 
Fools Motto said:
I know HHO well enough that most of you will throw your arms in the air, mouth open and many :eek::eek: moments when anyone mentions backing a 2yr.
We all know that TB's are often backed by/at 2, and probably many gypsy type ponies too. (I'm not even going to mention the Irish, or Dragon Driving! - ops, I just did!)

But anyway... My 2yr filly is currently VERY bored, very playful and TBH sometimes walking through her field checking the fence and things is like some sort of dangerous firing range game - she can come a bit too full on and kick out/whip round and leap about, in MY/YOUR space.
Although very good to do generally, she has got over cocky. Last year she was bitted as it meant everyone was safe when we took her for walks on her long line. She has worn a few rugs just for 'practice', done an in hand obstical (sp) course thingy, and has led off mine for all of 2 mins out on the lane. She has worn an elastic sersingle (bad spelling today?!) too.
Generally talking to 2 other horsey people earlier and they suggested that she could easily be sat on, and taken for a 10 min walk once or twice a week - for nothing else other than to get her brain occupied, and to be more independant from my mare. I did say my orignal plans were to get a lighter-than-me person to back her next summer, in the meantime do much what I did last year this year... but thats not going to be enough for little filly features according to those.
Anyway, it did get me thinking... I DO want to get her mind busy, get her less cocky - and make her think about something other than trying to get into the adjacent field by chewing a whole in the hedge!!!!
Am I going to be told off for even thinking it?? Most likely..BUT what if it DOES make a difference in her behaviour, for the best lets hope!

BTW, she is a NF ... about 12.3/13hh currently.
Click to expand...

we normally back quite a few 2yos got one in at the moment (a pony), they normally come for a few weeks to be broken and so they walk trot and canter around the school then they go back out in the field until they are 3 this makes them a lot easier to do when they are bigger and stronger! It also gives them something to think about we dont lunge as such. they come in one day, sat on and ridden in a round pen then in 4 days or so they normally can walk trot and canter around a school all be it with not much steering and brakes but it works and by week 2/3 we have most steering and brakes, generally they stay for a max of 4 weeks but they literally do 10/15 mins of work. just had one in we did last year as a 2 1/2yo and she was a perfect student very easy didnt put a foot wrong. i cant see why you couldnt do it if you feel it would make her a nicer pony to handle!
 
She's just going through the terrible twos... she needs company to pay with - a grumpy older mare is not it! If the field is your own(sorry its not clear) could you advertise for someone with another youngster to livery with you?

I personally would NOT back her at two - I'm hessitant to do it at 3. They just aren't physically mature and I'm sorry but I don't go with the argument that they are easier to do while they are smaller as opposed to bigger and stronger... this is a small pony we are talking about and regardless of size, it is the foundation work and maturity that makes them easier to back, NOT their size.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top