A Syndicate.......

Alec Swan

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Who fancies joining a syndicate?

Right, this is just an idea, and it's only in embryo form, currently!

When we look at the TB influence upon our Event Horse breeding, it seems to be a rather hit and miss affair. It seems that it's the Stallion line which attracts the most attention, rightly or wrongly, and all those who I speak to, who ride at Pro (or approaching it) level, tell me that they are always looking for "blood", in their purchases.

"Blood", of course, mean TBs. In my innocence, years ago, I thought that any old TB would give us the speed that we want. How wrong I was, in that speed isn't the only required quality! I suspect that what we need in the modern horse, is an ability to jump, staying power, trainability, and pace. Not always, but generally today, the modern NH horses are being bred from flat bred stock. Saddlers Wells springs to mind, and he has a few successful sons about.

BUT, are these flat bred stallions really what we want? Do we not want those often rather common looking, but effective horses of yesteryear? Whilst there are none which I can name, off the top of my head, there remain a few in Ireland, I feel certain.

To buy in a colt, and then, keeping him entire, and in work, would be a huge gamble, we know. I suppose that if the right 2yo could be found, and if he could demonstrate that he can jump, that would shorten the process, but are NH colts left entire until the age of 2 years? Very few, I'd have thought.

I've never kept a horse entire, I've never been involved in a syndicate, and I've never been on a serious horse buying expeditions, though I'll admit to quite fancying the idea. ;) There can be no doubt that there's an awful lot of advice that's going to be needed. Advice from sourcing and buying the horse, to its progress and its regime.

I suppose that the bottom line is that those involved, would need to face the question of what would happen in the event of failure. Could we expect to have a reasonable understanding of costs? If the horse were to attend Burghley Young Horse, at 4-5 and 6 years of age, this is going to be a fairly long term project. It wouldn't be a case of licking him in to shape, and prepping him for the racing based sales. The returns would be minimal. If the horse started to give hope to his trustees, then a few early coverings could be possible, perhaps, but little would come in until the animal was in the hands of the right pro rider, and was starting to move along.

Syndicate size, individual commitment, and the vital research needed to source the right youngster, would all be questions to be faced at a later date.

I would respectfully suggest that it should only be entered in to, by those who are in a position to shrug their shoulders, and write off the costs, in the event of failure. Being reliant upon success would be asking for trouble. It wont be a walk in the park, but with a focused and realistic approach, it could be fun.

I'd be grateful for a reasonable and kindly response, though in reality, I fully expect to be told that I'm barking! :o

Alec.
 
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An interesting idea, but... too many variables, I suspect. Re "blood" in the stallion side, my homebred mare came third at her second attempt at BE100 today. Only a lower level, but up against some very well bred horses. She is by my 15 hand Welsh D stallion, out of a sprint bred mare. She had the fastest time in her section, where ONLY TWO were inside the time. Put that into the equation!!
 
See, I reckon its the damline you should be more interested in.

I'm not in a syndicate as such, but when a filly foal appeared on Horsequest a few years back with what I considered to be immaculate eventing breeding I persuaded a more financially blessed friend to go into the purchase with me 50:50.

We now have a 4 yr old in training with a pro and about to contest BYEH and 4yo BE classes and an ET yearling filly from her. My sleeping partner did not want to invest in another foal without seeing how the first got on, but allowed me to take another embryo from her that has just produced a filly foal a week ago - this one is all mine, and with a sireline that pretty much matches Quimbo..... :)

Invest in a colt? Not sure. Bigger potential returns I suppose.....? But I am still loyal to the damline and my gut feeling is that that is where the success lies..........

Would welcome investors into my breeding programme by the way! If anyone's interested please PM me.......
 
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I agree with the others, it's buying the right mare that's the tricky part, there is already a huge choice of stallions to send her to.
 
How many of the top eventers are by NH sires out of interest?

I'd suggest very few, though through back generations I suspect that they exist. Generally it's the stud fee cost which prohibit most from using these horses, that and the fact that most wouldn't be in a position to supply chilled semen, I'd doubt.

Thinking about the former NH sires, and the types which would be of interest, I'd doubt that many actually raced. I would be surprised if many colts raced over jumps, so if I'm right, then interestingly the selection would be the result of opinion, and once a colt had a winner or two under his belt, so he'd become ever more popular. That's all supposition, so does anyone have experience in the breeding of NH horses?

Anyway, that's rather putting the cart before the horse, as it were! It's your opinions on the idea itself, which interest me.

Alec.
 
Great idea in concept, I wish I could have evolved one for my boy,although selling stallions for eventing seems to be media based rather than factual, so someone with that knowledge would have to be part of it.
 
I'd suggest very few, though through back generations I suspect that they exist. Generally it's the stud fee cost which prohibit most from using these horses, that and the fact that most wouldn't be in a position to supply chilled semen, I'd doubt.

Thinking about the former NH sires, and the types which would be of interest, I'd doubt that many actually raced. I would be surprised if many colts raced over jumps, so if I'm right, then interestingly the selection would be the result of opinion, and once a colt had a winner or two under his belt, so he'd become ever more popular. That's all supposition, so does anyone have experience in the breeding of NH horses?

Anyway, that's rather putting the cart before the horse, as it were! It's your opinions on the idea itself, which interest me.

Alec.

I suspect many of the earlier eventers were by NH sires but that they 'fell' into eventing rather than were bred for it from the start.

Locally, we have had an abundance of decent NH sires in past years such as Tina's Pet, Roscoe Blake, Rakaposhi King, Alflora and Karinga Bay to name just a few and you often see these names crop up in trials programmes; I wouldn't think many had been bred with eventing in mind with stud fees alone being in the thousands, rather that the mare hadn't produced the goods (or they weren't given time to develop more like) and they were moved on.
You'll often see the likes of Andrew Nicholson and Co., at the sales where they buy good moving individuals from decent families that look the type to go eventing; AN actually bought a Shahrastani yearling from me that way - which did go eventing although it was too small for himself. Although he was bred for the flat I was actually more chuffed that he went to AN for a decent career! :)
 
If I was given this remit with a shed load of money, I would scour the country and try and buy 3ish smart weanlings so as to get them before cutting. 3 is a nice number to run together and sadly as we know there is often problems along the way. As you say Alec the NH ones are cut as there is no interest in running them on. Had a very correct one here by Rainbow High out a black type mare who was cut at 5months who is turning out super smart.
 
Am very interested in this thread and the comments, mainly from the blood line aspect. Could you more knowledgable people be able to tell me a bit more about the NH 'type', ie what would you be looking for in a NH hunt stallion (other than the obvious winning races) in terms of conformation etc.

Maesfen has already said that the stallions below were/are good NH type sires. Are there others that stand out? If you were looking for one in a bloodline, say back to the third generation who would you go for?

'Tina's Pet, Roscoe Blake, Rakaposhi King, Alflora and Karinga Bay'

NB Saw two lovely weanling colts (and a few fillies) go through Leominster sales in the past few years by Alflora and Karinga Bay - they sold for about £20 - £50....
 
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