A total whip ban for equestrian sport? Thoughts?

xspiralx said:
Absolute rubbish.

They can be used the same SJ as for XC. Sometimes the horse will not move quickly enough off the leg (through laziness, or distraction, or spookiness - for any reason) and will need a reminder coming in to a fence - the fences may not be fixed but coming into a decent sized jump with less than the right amount of energy or concentration can be dangerous.
Click to expand...

Show jumped my mare up to Foxhunter level and had the ride on another mare too. Never once needed the whip. Maybe Foxhunter is not that big to you, but I personally don't really see it making that much difference through the grades. The most abuse of the whip I have seen in any sport is in showjumping.
 
Amaranta said:
Why just dressage and showjumping? When was the last time you saw a dressage rider beating a horse round the ring? In affiliated dressage they would be thrown out and possibly receive a ban from BD to boot.
Click to expand...

I think the whip should be banned in dressage as it should not be needed at all. Yes, use it for schooling, but personally, needing to take a whip into a test does not look so good IMO. I am not for a moment suggesting they are misused, just that they should not be allowed as the horses should be well enough trained to move off the leg.
 
Wagtail said:
I think the whip should be banned in dressage as it should not be needed at all. Yes, use it for schooling, but personally, needing to take a whip into a test does not look so good IMO. I am not for a moment suggesting they are misused, just that they should not be allowed as the horses should be well enough trained to move off the leg.
Click to expand...

When I competed RDA dressage, there was a lady who had lost both her legs (As I said earlier about myself and side saddle riders, the whip becomes the leg aid), she rode with two whips. They were never used to beat the horse and the horse was very well trained. She also competed in able bodies dressage, as I did, how could we do this if whips were banned?
 
A small tap with a whip is preferable to an outbreak of pony-club kicking, no?

But yes, there need to be sanctions for misuse, and i'm very interested in the research that shows that racehorses don't run faster when whipped. But as an emergency tool or back-up, sensibly used? Not a bad thing.
 
I don't think the problem is a whip or spurs it's the people that use them. Some people rely on them too much and for me personally I dont think a whip should ever be used as punishment but thats just me.....
 
Faracat said:
When I competed RDA dressage, there was a lady who had lost both her legs (As I said earlier about myself and side saddle riders, the whip becomes the leg aid), she rode with two whips. They were never used to beat the horse and the horse was very well trained. She also competed in able bodies dressage, as I did, how could we do this if whips were banned?
Click to expand...

That's completely different comparing someone with legs and someone with no legs
 
Ban the whip - no. Moderation yes! There needs to be an appreciation that all horses are different and react differently. I always carry a whip - and always wear spurs when in situations where I may need to get out of trouble quickly - such as hunting or XC - that does not mean that I always use that artificial aid - but like ABS on a car - it is there if you need it in an emergency. The OP is a bit arrogant to assume that one can plan for all eventualties.
 
Im against a ban.

I find a whip an integral part of schooling and competing. I may not use it often when competing but I like the fact that its then should I need it to wake a horse up or back up my legs.
 
Lolita said:
That's completely different comparing someone with legs and someone with no legs
Click to expand...

You've missed the point. ;)

A total whip ban across all equestrian sports, is a total ban for everyone in every discipline.

I have stated there are riders with severe disabilities that rely on them (no legs comes into this catagory).

Riders with low level disabilities that also rely on them.

Able bodied riders (eg side saddle riders) also need them (plus disabled side saddle riders).

A total ban would affect all three situations and make it impossible/much harder/less safe for them to ride.
 
Last edited:
MagicMelon said:
The skill should be in producing a horse which goes well without any artificial means?
Click to expand...

This would only be valid if all horses were the same and responded equally to training, and they aren't and they don't. You would need to add a word so it reads "obtaining and producing" to have it make any sense as a statement. By altering competition to favour those horses which are easily trainable, an awful lot of very talented horses, many of which have very big personality quirks, would be unable to compete.

I would rather see riders who bump around like sacks of potatoes and others who jab their horses in the mouth with their hands at every stride banned before people who use a whip in the right place at the right time. One is over and done with. The other goes on day after day and is a far more serious abuse than the misjudged use of a whip. Take a trip to any Riding Club competition and you'll see plenty of examples of long suffering horses and many of them carry riders who are the most voiciferous about other people's "abuse" of their horses by using a whip.
 
Last edited:
Wagtail said:
I think the whip should be banned in dressage as it should not be needed at all. Yes, use it for schooling, but personally, needing to take a whip into a test does not look so good IMO. I am not for a moment suggesting they are misused, just that they should not be allowed as the horses should be well enough trained to move off the leg.
Click to expand...

I mostly agree with you Wagtail and whips are not allowed at higher levels. But at Prelim on a baby horse it is very often the case that they will take the mickey if they know that you cannot back up your leg if you need to. (A boot in the guts will definitely lose you marks, a flick with the whip will not.) Just carrying the whip, not using it, is enough to keep them focussed when they are still learning to be sharp off the leg. Ten year olds in prelims shouldn't really need a whip carried. The competition is all about training and the "picture", after all. But four year olds at the beginning of their training, I would always want one.
 
Not read the entire post, but I'll sum up my thoughts quickly.

My youngster is a bit backward/lazy. I'm pretty sure he prefers a sharp tap than 3 or four pony club kicks in the ribs. It usually only takes 1/2 taps in a walk/trot transition to remind him to go forward and then the whip isn't used.

It's all about using it properly, effectively and humanely.
 
cptrayes said:
I mostly agree with you Wagtail and whips are not allowed at higher levels. But at Prelim on a baby horse it is very often the case that they will take the mickey if they know that you cannot back up your leg if you need to. (A boot in the guts will definitely lose you marks, a flick with the whip will not.) Just carrying the whip, not using it, is enough to keep them focussed when they are still learning to be sharp off the leg. Ten year olds in prelims shouldn't really need a whip carried. The competition is all about training and the "picture", after all. But four year olds at the beginning of their training, I would always want one.
Click to expand...

This would be great but isn't is a fantasy world? It's assuming that when you buy a ten year old that it has had correct training all it's life or that we as riders are all of Carl Hester's riding ability (or at least Wagtails :D ) My bought at 10 now 16 year old (whom I adore) is very backward thinking with ADD and despite trying various trainers, methods etc. over the years remains basically the same - he will not do anymore than he can get away with and each time I ride him I have to go back through the same steps to get him working off a subtle aid. I don't like having to use a whip to back up my aids, now that is probably my failing but it is not for want of trying. I'd love not to need one as come any championships where no whip is allowed he knows straight away I have no whip and it's like riding through treacle.
 
Wagtail said:
Show jumped my mare up to Foxhunter level and had the ride on another mare too. Never once needed the whip. Maybe Foxhunter is not that big to you, but I personally don't really see it making that much difference through the grades. The most abuse of the whip I have seen in any sport is in showjumping.
Click to expand...

Lucky for you that you've never ridden a horse that needed a reminder.
 
Wagtail said:
I think the whip should be banned in dressage as it should not be needed at all. Yes, use it for schooling, but personally, needing to take a whip into a test does not look so good IMO. I am not for a moment suggesting they are misused, just that they should not be allowed as the horses should be well enough trained to move off the leg.
Click to expand...

If they are not being misused then there is no valid reason to ban them.

Even the best trained horses sometimes need a gentle reminder, they are not machines and even the best trained ones need encouragement sometimes, and by encouragement I do NOT mean hitting.

As for your opinion that is does not look good to carry a whip in a test.........................well you are entitled to it :rolleyes:
 
cptrayes said:
I mostly agree with you Wagtail and whips are not allowed at higher levels. But at Prelim on a baby horse it is very often the case that they will take the mickey if they know that you cannot back up your leg if you need to. (A boot in the guts will definitely lose you marks, a flick with the whip will not.) Just carrying the whip, not using it, is enough to keep them focussed when they are still learning to be sharp off the leg. Ten year olds in prelims shouldn't really need a whip carried. The competition is all about training and the "picture", after all. But four year olds at the beginning of their training, I would always want one.
Click to expand...

I mostly agree with you but where on earth did you get the idea that whips are banned at higher levels?
 
zxp said:
For me - no way!

The whip is an essential peice of my safety equiptment out XC. If you have a horse backing off coming into a giant combination, a tap with the whip reminds them they have a job to to and get you both safely the other side.

I also deam it a peice of safety when hacking. You never know what a horse is going to do, and you can never win a physical battle with a horse so there is no point in trying, but if you are in a tricky situation it is a useful tool to aid persuasion that the safest route is the best one.

In addition, i think it should be noted: there is no ban on using the whip in racing. They are just tightening up the useage and penalties for disobeying the rules. They will still be there. They will still be used.
Click to expand...

My thoughts to!

Total ban would mean a lot of very undisciplined horses. We would have a horse situation to the same degree we have so many undisciplined children.

Spare the rod, spoil the child!
 
In endurance there is already a total whip ban on the last loop of an ER, and a total spurs ban period. The less than fully mobile people I know who compete tend to have specially built up saddles (that probably wouldn't be allowed in other disciplines) and have horses that are very well trained off voice aids (again, not allowed in the likes of dressidge). And I have known people apply for special dispensation to use other equipment/personal medication if they need a 'reasonable adjustment'.

There are other 'non-horse-beating' uses for a whip, though, so I wouldn't want a complete ban: gate opening, fly swatting (human and horse), fending off wild stallions, etc......
 
I too thought whips were banned in dressage competition they certainly are in eventing. For the test only I think they should be at all levels as a dressage test is amongst other things testing the obedience of your horse.
 
I think it would be a poor decision to ban the whip, and feel incidences of accidents and injuries to both horse and rider would increase because of the riders inability to back up the leg when needed in any circumstances.
Rather than ban the whip, ban the rider from their next event if they are misusing the whip and abusing the horse.
I know this type of whip control has caused issues in racing, but its the ridiculous way theyve done it thats the problem
 
angelish said:
thats the most ridiculous thing iv'e read all day ,its people who think like that who are going to get equestranism removed from the olympic's :(
Click to expand...

In what way? I absolutely do NOT agree that equestrianism should be removed from the Olympics. But I also realise that we get a lot of critisism from the odd person / spectator who sees a rider abuse a whips and spurs. I agree, that they have their use and can be used "nicely" but where is the line drawn? For BSJA for example, I believe its a 3 smack rule? But I think (dont have rulebook to hand) that is 3 smacks PER fence. So in theory you could belt your horse 3 times before every single fence which is just crazy? And the fact is if you have to smack your horse that many times, you shouldnt be on the course in the first place surely?

marydoll - Good point, ban the rider from the next event for misuing the whip is a great idea.
 
Last edited:
Whips should be used as an aid not punishment and in no way should they be banned. That is typical NL crap written by someone who I bet has never ridden at top level in any discipline let alone with or without a whip.
Totally ridiculous.
Anything in moderation, a tap behind the leg to encourage a good jump, a tickle to encourage the horse to engage/move over. Beating the horse 3/4times hard into every fence, yeah I see that all the time (not).
For every idiot who beats their horse (who let's face it won't be successful) there is another idiot who says whips should'nt be used in any situation, under any circumstance.
What happened to common sense??!!
 
firewell said:
Whips should be used as an aid not punishment and in no way should they be banned. That is typical NL crap written by someone who I bet has never ridden at top level in any discipline let alone with or without a whip.
Totally ridiculous.
Click to expand...

I think OP simply meant to stimulate a discussion point - granted breaking away from the standard "should riders where riding hat discussion" :).
 
I agree with other posters, I would NEVER go hacking without a whip and in fact wouldn't ride a strange horse or my own without one, especially on the road, apart from anything else, they are handy to hold out to the side to keep the cars off the side of the horse on a narrow lane, and as a previous poster said, helps to keep the bum in on the verge (or leg out of ditch on the other side)!
 
I don't ride at a high level but I do ride regularly on roads/in open country and (very) low level SJ & schooling/dressage. I haven't used a whip for a while and sincerely hope I'll never resort to one again. I certainly don't carry one day-to-day.

Equestrian sports are pretty much the only ones that involve hitting animals. That doesn't make them look good. It makes them look primitive. Personally I'd like to see them phased out from the top down. If riders at the peak (as per dressage) ride without them then it sets a good example for those starting out and encourages more patient thorough schooling of horse and rider.
 
Someone said that people to learn to use whips correctly. Well said, as always education is the key. Education about what a whip is and how to use it correctly is the way foward.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top