a trainers response to a fans e-mail, Someone who talks sense!

Devonshire dumpling said:
Fantastic!! I want to read what the lady had to say after that email! xx
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I bet she was shocked and upset, then went into denial, saying that he obviously didn't understand. I bet she went out and found a trainer/communiator that would take her money and agree with her. Unfortunately there are too many that will. I've met many a person like this woman who will let people (pros) take them up the garden path if they increase the " story" behind the problems and give them more reasons (other than the truth) that it happened... I truly believe that some people enjoy telling people their dramas and don't actually want help as they think that only they could handle this difficult horse, amd are quite impressed with themsleves in a wierd way!
 
I agree with his response and don't actually have a problem with the bluntness. However I do think the reply was a bit dramatic. The point was more than laboured!!
 
pardalis said:
I agree with his response and don't actually have a problem with the bluntness. However I do think the reply was a bit dramatic. The point was more than laboured!!
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I agree, very laboured and dramatic, he's bit of a drama queen and wasn't really telling anyone what couldn't already be seen by reading her email to him.
 
Flo_Bell said:
My mare was just like Champ when she came to me - and it was purely through her previous owner being oh so "nice" to her all the time. Mare thought she could get away with anything, and did on a regular basis.

Within a month she was a changed horse - no barging in the stable or being led, all feet picked up in any order and just being respectful of space. I very firmly believe that it does not take much to keep a well mannered horse - you set out the rules that you require, and stick to them no matter what. No ifs buts or maybes - rules is rules. Sometimes it's tough, but my mare is the sweetest, affectionate horse going now, and would do everything in her power not to cause harm to a person now as she understands the need for respect.

Don't get me wrong, she is still fussed and pampered, but ensuring my horse has everything she needs and also her fulfilling my needs of horse ownership (which does include cuddles ;) ) does not mean you need to have a badly mannered or dangerously behaving horse.
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Exactly the same scenario for me ! Luckily I know a western teacher & got some groundwork lessons early on (my first horse, so I had to "man up" a bit ) & she's pretty good now. I still err slightly on the soft side sometimes. . . . .But you have to be the big boss !;)
 
Very well said! If a little harsh in places, at least it was the truth and not sugar-coated to the extent of 'yes, you are a wonderful owner and you are clearly bringing this scared little horse back to life again'.

Mine will take the P out of anyone who will let her. She has tried barging past me for food before until I stood up to her. A sharp clip on her chin with my hand and a firm 'back' worked wonders. She still gets impatient but she will stand and wait for me to place her feed on the floor for her now. As a result of her breeder instilling good manners and me carrying on that work, I now have a good and well mannered horse who can be lead, groomed, caught and fed (all under supervision) by a child safely and correctly.

She has and does nip those who she thinks she can get away with it with. She has never ever nipped me but this Summer has nipped my mum's friend (because mum's friend was "oh you naughty girl, don't do that" and was horrified when I clipped S under the chin). I will not stand for biting or kicking as neither are funny and both can lead to serious injuries. Bucking, bolting and rearing; sometimes that is genuine fear but if it happened more than once I would be questioning why. The only time mine has done anything like that was through genuine pain. Since then she has been fine.

I understand horses spook, they get scared and they need reassurance but I know mine well enough to know when she is genuinely scared and when she is taking the p!ss :p.
Undfortunately, I can't say the same for some other liveries on my yard who think it is okay for their horse to bite/kick/snap/barge as it is 'just how he/she is' :rolleyes:.
 
padderpaws said:
I want to have lessons with someone like Larry. Please if anyone knows of anyone who teaches his training methods in England let me know. I would happily pay and happily learn and so would my horse.
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Just because he can talk some sense on the internet, it doesn't mean he's a great trainer. On my trips to Australia I have encountered horse people who have experience of him and he's just another guy who trains horses, not considered to be particularly the best or the worst. Definitely known for being opinionated and thinking he's the best though... A lot of what he does is very similar to the way some of the trainers with an nh label go about things, and I'm sure he realises that.

In the UK if you want to find a similar approach then Jason Webb in Goudhurst would probably fit the bill, or speak to any recommended western trainer.
 
Tinypony said:
Just because he can talk some sense on the internet, it doesn't mean he's a great trainer. On my trips to Australia I have encountered horse people who have experience of him and he's just another guy who trains horses, not considered to be particularly the best or the worst. Definitely known for being opinionated and thinking he's the best though... A lot of what he does is very similar to the way some of the trainers with an nh label go about things, and I'm sure he realises that.

In the UK if you want to find a similar approach then Jason Webb in Goudhurst would probably fit the bill, or speak to any recommended western trainer.
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This is very true, but he does TALK sense at the very least, and that has to be a bonus. I certainly think there are many of us on here who talk sense, as in, we would agree with what he says and would probably say the same (although I don't think I could be as blunt) but I know I would never be a good trainer :D Good, bad or average trainer, I like his no BS words.
 
Blimey, that makes me think. I reckon I'm alot like Sue and use treats for everything. Will defo be toughening up after reading that. Lucky my horses are such nice people!
 
Brilliant - I'd love to meet Trainer & shake his hand :)

That advice is exactly the same that I'd have given.

Having been a 'last stop' for some very 'unusual characters' of the equine pony world through the 1980's to 2004, I concur with everything he said - its what I've applied for yrs.

Current big Fuzzy had a nasty rep when it arrived 8 months ago - within 3 months had got a lovely natured easy to handle horse. However, I am careful as Fuzzy has respect & manners but will on occasions still try to push boundaries. Have been offered a lot of money in the past 4 months or so, far more than I paid - but this Fuzzy isn't for moving on
 
I'm chuckling here because I've just realised that he's not the same Larry as the forthright one I've encountered! :-))
It must be something about horse trainers called Larry...
Isn't it fair to say though that there are just as many horses, probably more in fact, being stuffed up by people who don't think they are clicker, or nh or whatever? I was talking to a fellow livery yesterday about the last two to leave our yard. They both knew how to stuff a horse up with "love" and lack of understanding, but wouldn't have known clicker or nh if it hit them in the face. Surely the fact is that people stuff up horses every day on pretty much every livery yard, sometimes you can blame it on the label, sometimes you can't?
I've had a look at Larry's videos and I think he's just a competent western trainer. So if people really think he's so great and they'd like to learn from him or similar, then maybe someone like Susie Anderson http://www.ridewestern.co.uk/ or look on the WES website for local trainers. Note of caution - I'd always watch a western trainer (or any trainer) with a new young horse before deciding to learn with them. Some western training is great, some is pretty harsh on a horse. I don't mean the "fair but tough" message we're getting from Larry here, I mean harsh and unforgiving. Like I said before, Jason Webb is a good example of a good no-nonsense horseman who might attract those who like Larry's style.
 
In fact, Steve Halfpenny is back in the UK for just two clinics later this month. Those who apply certain fluffy interpretations to the nh-style brigade might be pleasantly surprised if they could find a day to go and watch him. I think that would really change a few perceptions. He's not outspoken like Larry, but people might be surprised at just how accessible no-nonsense western-style training is.
 
I'll have to disagree with the majority here. Not necessarily about what he said but if you want someone to listen to you, this isn't the way to go about it. Even aside from that, he has admitted he has edited the email and he has never met this woman in person - It would be interesting to see the entirety of the original email to see how much he has changed then ask who is he to write to her in such terms?
 
blueneonrainbow said:
Tallyho, why shouldn't I disagree?
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Didn't say you shouldn't... usually we have more people disagree by now and was surprised no-one had yet...

I'm on the fence. I always sit on the fence. Well, I try :D Occasionally I fall off and hurt myself.
 
I'll stick to clicker training my horses; they both respect me and don't push me around. They did when I had NH practitioners and the 'no- s**t' trainers out ;).


I think regardless of what you do with your horse, there will be aspects of people being walked over by their horses.

IMO the article was a load of crap. Horses seek friendship within their herd; they form friendships and they rely on trust in their 'leaders' to ensure their safety. They learn about their environment and learn to understand what to do and what not to do.


Moreover, clicker training isn't a system or 'method'. It's simply a training tool, which I use to reinforce training ;D
 
MTA, I also think his response is totally deconstructive. I think she was seeking advice and she just got his opinion, and nothing constructive on improving. The fact that he was parading it around the internet like he was a proud little child really highlighted the lack of professionalism. I don't care if it's funny etc, we've all had problems with our horses, and I think personally this is a bad way to go about it.

I don't agree with his training methods either and this whole dominance crap either.
 
I think he was rude. She asked for help and just got told she was wrong. He only told her how not to behave and not HOW to behave. I personally doubt that Sue andChamp exist and are purely marketing tools for his video and book..
 
It's funny how people believe what they want to believe - this "letter" is so obviously concocted from a number of experiences / letters he may have received and I very much doubt that "Champ" and his owner actually exist.

He just sounds like an arrogant a hole.
 
Did anyone seriously think that his story was all completely true? I took it as a rather arrogant rant, based possibly on his true experience but more probably on a combination of stuff. Rather the same way I take the stuff a certain saddler writes in the free mags sometimes...
 
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