a trainers response to a fans e-mail, Someone who talks sense!

whilst I think there was a germ of truth in what he is saying in that inconsistant , unconfident and unskilled handling can screw up a horse ... and that this lady does seem as if she did indeed fir that bill and indeed need help with her horse or she will get injured .... that does not mean to say that HIS opinion of what will fix the situation is right. He has used this letter as an excuse for a rant and to promote his training methods by frightening the living daylights out of a distressed woman. He is also doing that old strategy of saying that he will no doubt get hate mail and of course they will all be "wrong" ... just like some other big names that say if you disagree that you just are not knowledgable enough to understand so you need to come along to demos / sign up to courses so you can be enlightened :mad: :mad: :mad:


correctly applied by competent people other methods DO work... so I agree when he says
....And because of your PERCEPTION, like you described in your letter, the results can be less than ideal. Not because there is anything wrong with those training techniques but because of your interpretation of them.
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( my highlighting )

so everyone that agrees with everything else he says please do remember that sentence ;)


and this one

However, a horse's behavior is a REFLECTION OF HIS OWNER
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Interesting what he has said, the same can be said of many horse owners who totally mis understand what horses are all about. Equally, there are horse owners at the other end of the spectrum to the woman in the story, who also don't understand anything about horses.

Once people get away from anthropomorphising horses behaviour and getting an understanding of how horses really are, then the whole thing becomes a lot less fraught, and more successful and rewarding, both for the horse and owner.

Obviously, horses are as individual as people, and what works well for one will work less well for another. Just like people though, horses do fall into 'types' and a good training program should be flexible enough to adapt to the horses type, and then fine tune to the horse as an individual. However, people need to take the time it takes and make an effort to learn about horses what makes them tick, and how to handle, train and ride them appropriately. If folk did this, letters like the one to the trainer and his response would be a lot less, and a lot more horses would benefit.
 
Well, I read it that he's being dramatic for effect and it's a handy way to publicise his training philosophy. NH and clicker are mentioned in the original email supposedly from the owner, but to be fair, he doesn't blame that for the problems, he blames the owner, which is how it is. We all know that what is described in the supposed email doesn't reflect good clicker or nh training don't we? As for anthropomorphising, he's as guilty as the owner I think.

I can see the point of posting this, but I don't see what people are getting so excited about. We know that there are plenty of straightforward trainers out there who would agree with Larry, and who manage to produce nice happy horses without brutalising them. (Some with more radical views would disagree of course). I didn't think people were serious about wanting him to come to the UK etc, because patently there are loads of people already in the UK who you can access if that's the sort of style you want.
 
sussexbythesea said:
I think I may have also read those Tinypony :rollseyes:
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Oh, Sussexbythesea, I read his little screeds and want to tear the page out of the magazine! Having seen said saddler do a fitting for a friend, his articles reflect his style quite accurately... and I wouldn't let him within a mile of my yard! :-))
 
Tinypony said:
I'm chuckling here because I've just realised that he's not the same Larry as the forthright one I've encountered! :-))
It must be something about horse trainers called Larry...
Isn't it fair to say though that there are just as many horses, probably more in fact, being stuffed up by people who don't think they are clicker, or nh or whatever? I was talking to a fellow livery yesterday about the last two to leave our yard. They both knew how to stuff a horse up with "love" and lack of understanding, but wouldn't have known clicker or nh if it hit them in the face. Surely the fact is that people stuff up horses every day on pretty much every livery yard, sometimes you can blame it on the label, sometimes you can't?
I've had a look at Larry's videos and I think he's just a competent western trainer. So if people really think he's so great and they'd like to learn from him or similar, then maybe someone like Susie Anderson http://www.ridewestern.co.uk/ or look on the WES website for local trainers. Note of caution - I'd always watch a western trainer (or any trainer) with a new young horse before deciding to learn with them. Some western training is great, some is pretty harsh on a horse. I don't mean the "fair but tough" message we're getting from Larry here, I mean harsh and unforgiving. Like I said before, Jason Webb is a good example of a good no-nonsense horseman who might attract those who like Larry's style.
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I think the thing to bear in mind when reading his e-mail is that althought this is referring to NH and Clicker, and he is a western trainer, the actual point in fact that he is making is that people mess things up by misenterpreting the horse, this applies across the board, no one can correctly and appropriately train a horse without having the correct perspective about the horse and then the trianing approach that they are using, and thus how that approach will imact on the horse.


No matter what training method people use, it is often their interpretation of the horse, their projections of human emotions and actions onto the horses behaviour, and the humans blinded approach which focuses on what type of bond/relationship they want for themselves with the horse and not what type of bond/relationship will suit the horse and then the owner.

That and ignorance and stupidity
 
Tinypony said:
Oh, Sussexbythesea, I read his little screeds and want to tear the page out of the magazine! Having seen said saddler do a fitting for a friend, his articles reflect his style quite accurately... and I wouldn't let him within a mile of my yard! :-))
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Absolutely - would hate to be one of the caricatures in his articles :eek:
 
Yep, we're agreeing with each other. I mentioned this in my later post and think it's 100% right.

queenbee said:
I think the thing to bear in mind when reading his e-mail is that althought this is referring to NH and Clicker, and he is a western trainer, the actual point in fact that he is making is that people mess things up by misenterpreting the horse, this applies across the board, no one can correctly and appropriately train a horse without having the correct perspective about the horse and then the trianing approach that they are using, and thus how that approach will imact on the horse.


No matter what training method people use, it is often their interpretation of the horse, their projections of human emotions and actions onto the horses behaviour, and the humans blinded approach which focuses on what type of bond/relationship they want for themselves with the horse and not what type of bond/relationship will suit the horse and then the owner.

That and ignorance and stupidity
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I don't think it matters whether Sue and Champ exist in reality.
I am not going to be buying his products anyway, but I do read his 'newsletters', have done for a while, amongst many others.

The situation described is real, many of us can say "Oh, I know someone just like that" and much of what he says makes real sense, it could actually cause people to step back and take a long hard look at their problems and maybe find that they can take an alternative route, not necessarily his.
 
I believe this method is known as 'traumatic one-trial learning' and it's probably a lot more lucrative if he can foster a sense of inadequacy in his pupils from the start. I hope people can see through him, it's not a nice way to do business IMO.
 
Unprofessional to say the least. If this was a genuine e mail from an 'admirer' of his work he should have had the courtesy to reply in private, not to the world at large. He could have stood on his soapbox and spouted off along these lines without using the supposed e mail as the basis for it. He may be speaking more than a grain of truth in his reply but more than anything else he comes across as arrogant.
 
As far as the content goes, there is more than a grain of truth in what he says, although I think he is way off beam when it comes to "respect" - it's just the same tired old stuff about dominance.

I think his style stinks, imo - he comes across as incredibly arrogant and dogmatic. Also, I am creeped out when people start capitalizing WORDS almost RANDOMLY like that.
 
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