A traumatic dressage, and a thank you to BE!

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KatB

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This is mainly to say a massive thank you to the organisers and BE who have restored my faith in eventing!

We'd headed off for a nice run around the BE 90 before stepping back up to BE100 and staying there for a while!! Madam was exceptionally excited, and due to me wrestling with my boots, I got on a bit later than planned for our dr. warm up!!

Madam was coming into season, so short and choppy was her default, which slowly got better as we warmed up, but we just didn't have enough time to crack it. Just before we went in, we narrowly avoided a head on collision with someone who didn't know left to left, which again left madam in a boiling over tizz!!

Anyway, went into the arena, started our test which was obedient but tense, when I got beeped. Long story short, but the dressage judge had decided in her wisdom that madam was "hopping lame" in her words, and she wasn't happy for me to continue. My vet friend was videoing, informed her she wasn't lame, just tense, which earnt us a reprieve to canter. Madam exploded in the canter (standing discussing her soundness had sent her over the edge :rolleyes: ), to get another beep and the judge informing us she was eliminating us due to the fact my horse was clearly "hopping lame on her near hind". At this point I was confused, and also hopping mad! Madam couldn’t move her way out of a paper bag if I’m honest, but is perfectly capable of doing a good test when tension doesn’t take over. Luckily my friend being there reassuring me she wasn’t lame, just tight was the only thing that stopped me bursting into tears there and then.

As the judge obviously wasn’t THAT concerned about my horses soundness to call a vet over, my friend chased down the event vet as I wanted it in writing at the event that my horse was sound! After examining her on the lunge and trotting up straight, the vet declared she was absolutely sound behind, and there was nothing that she would expect a vet to have seen, or that would cause her (as a vet) to pull her up for. Unfortunately the dressage for the BE90 was over by this point, so we got on with our day, obviously pretty gutted at the days happenings!

Anyway, had a chat later on with the BE steward who was lovely, even though I did blub at her, and promised she would speak to the judge. The fact no procedure had been followed by the judge was obvious due to the fact she had written “eliminated” on my test, yet the results board showed “retired” which was because the judge had NO right to eliminate me in the circumstances.

Anyway, long story short, BE have been fantastic about it, and confirmed that elimination in the dressage phase should ONLY happen with the say so of the BE steward, who hadn’t been informed of the case at all on this day. The organisers of the event have also been great and are in the process of looking at refunding my entry and start fee’s, which I am exceedingly grateful for, although I would have much preferred to jump around their lovely course!!

So, a MASSIVE thankyou to BE and everyone who has been so fantastic in dealing with my "whinge", and a big plea to make sure whether you're a competitor or an official to read your rule book! :D
 
Golly, that's unbelievable!!
I've seen it happen with a dressage judge querying the horse and then sending for the vet to assess before they were allowed (which they were) to continue, but honestly, eliminating you when a vet was there saying the mare was sound???
Last year at BE event I got a dressage test back and the judge had written at the top: "neck strap - is this allowed?" So obv. she/he didn't know the rules which is worrying.
The thing is you pay your money on the basis that the organisers will run the comp. according to the rules, not make random ones up at will. You are 100% right to make a fuss in this case. As you say, it's up to everyone, inc. the judges to read the rules!!
Better luck next time. :)
 
AnShanDan said:
Golly, that's unbelievable!!
I've seen it happen with a dressage judge querying the horse and then sending for the vet to assess before they were allowed (which they were) to continue, but honestly, eliminating you when a vet was there saying the mare was sound???
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Exactly, quite unbelieveable. This happened to me a few years ago. I finished my test and the judge got out of the car to say my horse looked unlevel and that I must have a vet check before I could continue. To stop you once and discuss it, maybe, but to then eliminate you on a 2nd stop is in not very fair. Makes it a very wasted journey. Good on BE for trying to sort it out
 
Confusion perhaps arose as in BD as a judge you can ask a competitor to retire (eliminate them if needs be) if you feel the horse is lame. Most dont do it unless the lameness is very obvious and will mark down, comment on the sheet and speak with competitor afterwards.

TBH if as a judge I felt the horse was showing very marked lameness I would prob have done the same thing as your judge did. Judges arent vets but certainly have the horse's welfare at the top of their priorities - sure the judge didnt set out to eliminate you.

Perhaps the breakdown here was in the judge not communicating with the BE steward.

Ireally hope this doesn't decend in to judge bashing (as some of the above comment are leaning towards) as judges are human and do make mistakes.
 
Finn I completely understand and hope that lame horses are picked up, but the horse was clearly not "hopping lame", as proven by the fact 2vets present declared her fine. Eventing is a 3phase sport, so that procedure just doesnt work without right to appeal unless there is no argument about the lameness.
 
I have no intention of judge bashing, but rules are there to be followed by both parties and on this occasion weren't. If I was judge bashing there is a lot
more I could add, but that is not my intention.
 
What a shame that you wernt allowed to jump any way :(. I feel your pain about being eliminated when you shouldnt be but the ammount of times you see lame horses going round that is never mentioned its a bit of a double edged sword really.
 
sorry to hear this, what a pain, hope you get your fee back. I'm not going to poo poo dressage judges but sometimes they can get it wrong!

good luck for your next event, and don't let it get u down :)
 
Hate to say it and I sympathise with you !but the dressage judge is able to eliminate you and the Steward was wrong to tell you different.It is down to the judge if they have doubts they can ask the Steward to look but I assume you were not allowed to complete your test so the judge can make this decision off their own back.They obviously rightly or wrongly felt your horse was lame enough to justify their action and I am sure they will not have done it lightly.The BE steward only has jurisdiction if you were allowed to complete your test by the judge.
Here is the relevant section of the rule book.Clearly the rules as written were followed as unpalatable as it is for you.

iv. Lameness – Dressage If in the opinion of the judge(s) a horse is so lame that it
should not be taking part in the competition, he or they may eliminate the horse.
If there is doubt about the lameness, the horse will be permitted to complete the
test but will be marked as for unevenness of pace. In such a case the judge(s) will
mark their sheet(s) accordingly. The Dressage Steward must draw the attention of
the BE Steward to the sheet(s). After consultation with theVeterinary Surgeon and
examination of the horse, if considered necessary, the BE Steward will decide
whether the horse is fit to continue in the competition.
 
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Such a shame you weren't allowed to continue :(
I think it was just an unfortunate incident, very frustrating from your point of view and perhaps the judge was perhaps a little over enthusiastic in eliminating you but they were probably just acting in what they thought were the horses best interests as far as they could see the situation.
I'm sure 99% of the time judges do an excellent job, it's a shame you had such a negative experience but at least your complaint has been dealt with appropriately!
I hope you have a better experience next time :)
 
popsosh ive read the rules, thank you. The stewards, organisers and powers to be at BE have all confirmed there was reasonable doubt as the horse was sound, therefore she should have if necessary been marked down, but not eliminated, and im sure the people who run and manage the events are aware of their rules :) lameness should not be taken lightly, and it rightly should be investigated, but there should also be oppurtunity to appeal which has been confirmed across the board.
 
If the judge did not obey the rules then they have no defence and in this case deserve a bashing!
If they were not sure of the rules they should have asked an official for clarification. There is no excuse.
What a dissapointment for you and all that preparation for that to happen!
Good on BE for being very fair .
 
popsdosh, that is because she was not following BE rules which are more indepth than BD rules as Finn has kindly explained. It has been fully investigated, so I am not merely stating my opinion, :)
 
KATB as you know we had a similar experience this weekend with our madam and her seasons although at unaff but run under BE rules.

FJ eliminated Pig, think they got
confused and thought it was two cumulative stops and you're out, it was only 90 so it was incorrect. FJ was really rude and shouted them to get off the course and when rider tried to point out they thought it was under BE rules FJ bellowed you've learnt something today then, leave you're eliminated.

They must have realised their error as online scores noted as
retired XC not eliminated. But I put it down to bad luck, we all make mistakes sometimes. Also believe good luck follows bad so waiting in anticipation ;)

Lovely that organisers trying to sort refund as its not cheap - lots of luck at you're next event :)
 
NR99, Exactly, everyone makes mistakes and ive got nothing against the judge personally, i'm sure she was just doing what she felt was best, but unfortunately was the wrong decision on several counts. The mare is fine which was the main thing, so overall no harm done but lots to learn from.
 
However....proof that it is good to really read the rules. And I would have pursued it as initially would have been horrified I had been eliminated for a lame horse ( and not realising) and even crosser if 2 vets then said horse WAS sound!
 
Luci, exactly. Unfortunately due to timings etc, by the time Id proved my mare was fit to carry on, the BE90 section had finished and I had no dr.result. That is why the lameness procedure is there so a horse can carry on competing once proved fit to do so, as the BE steward would be aware and able to assist with timings, which is WHY im led to believe the rules vary slightly between disciplines.
 
Felt so sorry for you on Sat Kat, a small consolation that BE and event organisers have been helpful. I was really pleasantly surprised that D_K's refund was sent out so quickly as so hope you receive yours asap:)
 
I'm sorry, but if the judge thought she was too lame to continue the test, and described her as "hopping lame", then I think they were totally right to eliminate you.
I assume you trotted her up for vet without you on top? If she is as tight in the back that it causes her to look unlevel behind, it probably only showed when you were riding her. I know she's a mare, and she comes into season - that's what mares do, but I personally would never knowingly ride my horse if it was in physical discomfort. I also know that tension can make her even tighter and even shorter, and the lead up to your test wasn't as stress free as it could have been, but through better preparation you can prevent this from happening again, I would suggest talking through things with you vet, keeping a season diary for you mare, and avoiding entering competitions at bad times for her etc.

I would be interested to see the video.
 
Oh I feel for you. A few years back my mare did a similar thing at Willerby Hill competing in front of mirrors. Judge pulled me up saying horse was lame behind. I was mortified. I said she was fine before I came please can I just trot around once or twice even if I then left the arena I think it was just tension. She allowed me to do this and then allowed me to continue and apologised saying she could then see it was tension. We did get an awful score but horse loosened up a bit by the end of the test.

I hope you manage to sort your girl out to keep her comfy for future competitions. I no longer compete my mare but she is now on Regumate and is like a different horse. x
 
Mardymare (guess she's the inspiration for your online name);) interesting as vet has just suggested two month trial on Regumate.

KatB have you ever put L on it?
 
NR99 - I only got her scanned this last December to get to the bottom of it and I wish I had done it years ago. Our scores used to range from 72 to a whopping 44% and I just kept finding different excuses and trying some other mare supplement or calmer. A bottle of Regumate has lasted 3 months so well worth the money and vets have just signed me another prescription. She still has some 'mardy mare' quirks - that is just her but I can put my leg on her now and ride her no matter what day and she has no tightness over her back. :)

Sorry to hijack Kat x
 
How awful :( but I am glad that BE are being helpful with refunds.

Have you watched the video back? It must be hard to take when someone is calling the horse that you know is sound lame but I wondered if you thought it was justified from the video?
 
yep have watched the video back, she is tight but definitely not hopping lame.

Dotilas, you know nothing about me or my mare. She is naturally sharp and defaults to short choppy strides regardless to whether in season or not if she's excited. Its something my trainers and I are working hard on, and it becomes more apparent when she is in season, but eases when warmed up. It is also something I work hard to keep her as comfortable as possible too. I appreciate she's not the easiest to judge, but the anything detected would have been questionable, which puts us in the 2nd category of the lameness ruling.

At no point have I critised the judges decision to comment or pull over a horse they question, but have commented on their failure to follow procedure. I wouldnt have minded getting a justifiably bad mark, or being watcher throughout the day, but I did object to being kicked out with no further option being given when any lameness was questionable and there is a set procedure to follow.
 
Mardymare, thank you, will discuss with my vet and my trainers. Pleased its helping your mare and all went ok with your experience!
 
so glad you got it sorted...i am one of those people who (despite having read the rules) would doubt myself and probably not have followed it up so well done for persevering. just a shame they didn't let you jump even if just HC (like they would if you'd been elim for having a whip in the DR or whatever!)

also, if it helps, mine defaults to short and choppy when he's tense and he's a boy:p....totally know where you are coming from with that one! agree that judges should elim an obviously lame horse but there is a clear difference between tense/bridle lame and hopping lame....
 
thanks diggerbez, it was mainly through my concern that I got the event vet to check her! TBH it was timing that stopped me continuing and I didnt get to speak to the steward until later in the day. Your boy needs to have words with madam with his recent dr.resultr!
 
KatB said:
thanks diggerbez, it was mainly through my concern that I got the event vet to check her! TBH it was timing that stopped me continuing and I didnt get to speak to the steward until later in the day. Your boy needs to have words with madam with his recent dr.resultr!
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you can have him if you like? he's back to his usual self- spat his dummy out big style in my lesson last night (i have sore arms this morning- not normal after a dressage lesson?! :o) and tonight i didn't dare get on because he went mental on the lunge first! :eek:
 
If the thend judge thought your horse was lame then they took the appropriate action.

They ate not required to speak to the steward so rules were followed.

What many riders dont realise is that you dont have to be a listed judge you judge 80s and 90s....just need to have ridden at BD Medium level. So you may noyce even get a proper judge.
 
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