A very foot sore little pony - please help

redredruby

redredruby

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I have been reading the barefoot / weather thread with interest and was hoping that some wise people would be able to offer me some advice.

I have started looking after a 5 year old welshXarab, he has never been shod and had his first 'trim' last week under sedation (he has been unhandled for most his life).

At the moment, when I am walking him to and from his field he seems so foot sore and uncomfortable, he is better on some surfaces than others.

What could I do to help him? I am very reluctant to stick shoes on him and was hoping that there was something else I could do?

He is on a low suger, high fibre diet (simple systems) and I have cut out carrots. He has a daily supplement which includes brewers yeast, linseed and seaweed. I read that mag ox was good to feed, would that help?

What about applying a hoof harderner? I could only apply this to the wall as so far he won't hold his feet up long enough to apply to the sole (and I am not going to force him as he is very nervy).

Do you think he would benefit from being kept in longer? At the moment he goes out during the day and in at night (out during night isn't an option). His field is very muddy, could the wet be making his feet soft? His feet do seem really flat, as though their is no clearance from the ground - could that be causing it?

I have put him on danilon to try and help stop him being so sensitive but clearly this isn't a solution, am just trying to make him more comfortable.
Sorry for the long essay but would really appreciate any advice.
 
Was he sore before the trim? I sounds as if too much was taken off in one go and his soles/frogs are suddenly being exposed to pressure when they are not ready, having been held off the floor until now by his foot growth.

I would feed mag ox because it is used in human diabetics to help insulin regulation.

Has he been moved? Is he now getting grass that is more lush than he is used to? Are you sure he does not have early laminitis?
 
Just to be on the safe side, check for pulses in his fronts to rule out lami as the grass is soo lush at the moment - if he does have grass in the paddock and is a little tubby then a grazing muzzle may be an option when out.

If it is purely the trim that has made him sore I would do 2 things 1. invest possibly in some boots to walk him over the stones to and from his stable if this is causing him pain and 2. make sure you use (which I am sure you did) a registered farrier for his next trim - I have used a barefoot trimmer and she was totally fantastic but it could be that he has had a little too much trimmed.

I will also get shot down for saying that if he is that sore and ridden and its def. not lami then shoes may be the answer -

I am sure the barefooters will be on soon to give you much much better advice - hope he is feeling better soon x
 
He was foot sore before the trim and the farrier was quite careful to not remove much but yes, that could be a factor.

He has been in his current field for at least 6 weeks.

There is no heat in his feet but lami was something in the back of my mind but he isn't standing in the typical laminitis stance and I can't feel any pulses or heat. The soreness is worse on rough uneven surfaces.
 
meesha said:
If it is purely the trim that has made him sore I would do 2 things 1. invest possibly in some boots to walk him over the stones to and from his stable if this is causing him pain and 2. make sure you use (which I am sure you did) a registered farrier for his next trim - I have used a barefoot trimmer and she was totally fantastic but it could be that he has had a little too much trimmed.
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I was thinking about boots but I wouldn't be able to get them on him (he is very nervy about his feet) and yes it was a registered farrier but very valid point :)

Thank you!
 
My lad has been unshod for three years, untill this summer. My farrier said it's wet that has made his sole soft, we did put shoes on for 8 weeks, had them off tuesday and his feet are so much better now :D

What I'm saying is it could be the wet muddy field, if possible try keeping him in a little longer, or bring in every day (if you don't already) gives them time for their feet to dry out.

Oh and good luck with him :)
 
In my experience of lami, the soreness, especially over rough ground, is one of the first signs.. What is your grass like and is he well covered (they don't have to be enormous to get it, my fit eventer showed signs at one point..).
 
All I would say at the moment is that if his feet are sore then there is a reason for that and putting shoes on will mask it, but not cure the problem. I would agree with the boots suggestion if his diet is right - you could perhaps focus on handling his feet so he becomes totally accepting, then using boots, it will come eventually with plenty of work.
 
I suspect that if you can't put boots on him then you'll struggle to get a set of shoes on as well.

Is there any sign of thrush?
 
I have been using Keratex hoof hardener and then 'Rock Hard' on my little falabella xs soles. It has worked a treat and he doesn't get at all footsore on our stoney track now.
He has been bf for years, but because he is always just on our paddock track he was becoming very foot sore when we started using him as a lead pony for a nervous horse and the ride is very stoney indeed.

Just take care that the hardener does not go on the frog at all.
 
TwoStroke said:
I suspect that if you can't put boots on him then you'll struggle to get a set of shoes on as well.

Is there any sign of thrush?
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You are absolutely correct, the only way we were able to get him trimmed was sedation by the vet - this is because he has never been handled and is still very nervous.

He is now happy for me to touch his feet and will hold them up for me for a split second but I don't want to force him to do anything as that would just set him back.

I can't see whether he has thrush because of this but I can't smell anything......the things we do!! :o
 
and it could be the simple systems. I've lost count of the number of horses I've worked on that get footsore on alfalfa or any of its derivatives.

both welsh and arab are prone to IR. This is not age related.
 
if he is 5yrs and just had his first trim i would expect him to be sore for a few days BUT i would be concerned because you say he was sore before the trim, i would get him checked by the vet because i would be worried it could be early laminitis
 
Honey08 said:
In my experience of lami, the soreness, especially over rough ground, is one of the first signs.. What is your grass like and is he well covered (they don't have to be enormous to get it, my fit eventer showed signs at one point..).
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This, completely, especially as he was sore already.

Either that or thrush from never having had his feet picked out in all this wet weather. But for the moment I would certainly treat him as if he was very early laminitic.
 
on the upside we are losing the bad weather and good is coming in so if it is due in part to the wet weather you should see improvement shortly. I would check for pulses morning and night and unless he needs weight gain take him off any feed and give him a mineral lick in the field to be on safe side (non molassed one) - my mare is just on mineral lick and vet seems happy with that and her unshod feel are like rock - but... she has access 24/7 to hard standing/field shelter and arena so not on wet field too much (not ridden - retired)

good luck, hopefully all weather related but I would call vet if he worsens or is uncomfortable at all in field
 
Update - spoke to vet, she said to bring him in and keep him on deep bed and to check his feet for heat and pulses. If hot and with pulse then she would come out tonight, however, as there was nothing she is going to come tomorrow to check him out.

I am just really concerned about him....when I had a look at his feet (for the 10 seconds he would hold them up) they seem really flat, as though it would be his soles that would be touching the ground which might explain why he is sore on the rough ground but not so much on the smooth concrete.

If that is the case how does one go about correcting that?
 
redredruby said:
Update - spoke to vet, she said to bring him in and keep him on deep bed and to check his feet for heat and pulses. If hot and with pulse then she would come out tonight, however, as there was nothing she is going to come tomorrow to check him out.

I am just really concerned about him....when I had a look at his feet (for the 10 seconds he would hold them up) they seem really flat, as though it would be his soles that would be touching the ground which might explain why he is sore on the rough ground but not so much on the smooth concrete.

If that is the case how does one go about correcting that?
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I wish I had the answer to this as it would also help me :)
 
I may be very wrong but I am under the impression that the right trimming can help if the foot needs it but that some horses are naturally flat footed and some more concave.

I am sure I read that horses that come from mountain/rocky areas have much more concave (deep) feet due to the fact that the hard ground will mean the foot compresses more and therefore needs the frog/sole to be further off the ground. Draft and some other breeds have naturally flatter feet for the softer ground.

Not sure that any of this helps you though, good luck for the vet tomorrow, fingers crossed its not lami
 
redredruby said:
Hey! How are you? How is your boy doing? Did you get to the bottom of the lameness issue? :)
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yes...his dreadful feet, seen by farrier twice in 6 months with previous owner so you can imagine what the're like. Going to be a long haul to try and sort them but he will come good in the end.

and you?
 
victoria1980x said:
yes...his dreadful feet, seen by farrier twice in 6 months with previous owner so you can imagine what the're like. Going to be a long haul to try and sort them but he will come good in the end.

and you?
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Glad you have got to the bottom of it! Arthur went in for an MRI in April and was a ligiment injury, he had a steriod injection and so far has been sound (fingers crossed!!)
 
**Update**

Vet came out and confirmed that pony is very foot sore and when walking on gravel is putting weight on heels to relieve pain in toes.

We sedated him and checked his feet- they are very flat but there are no signs of thrush or abscess. The vet bandaged his front feet to give support, he is to be kept on boxrest for a week and to be given danilon.

He is slightly overweight so we need to deal with that.

The vet said that it may be that he needs shoes on to support his frogs, such as heartbar, but I would have thought there would be more we could do first? Any advice greatly appreciated! :)
 
How deep are his collateral grooves at the tip of the frog, and at the heels? This is a good indicator as to how much sole you have. If you have inadequate sole depth, shoeing will not help this - it may even exacerbate the issue.

I'm sure to sound like a broken record, but the issue is primarily diet. Too many sugars in the diet, and probably also insufficient or imbalanced minerals. It also suggests that you don't have a brilliant wall connection (which is highly likely, given the dietary issues), as concavity, sole depth and wall connection are all closely connected.

My suggestion would be to look back over some of the barefoot diet threads on here, and make a plan to tackle his excess carb intake, and provide sufficient minerals. :)
 
TwoStroke said:
How deep are his collateral grooves at the tip of the frog, and at the heels? This is a good indicator as to how much sole you have. If you have inadequate sole depth, shoeing will not help this - it may even exacerbate the issue.

I'm sure to sound like a broken record, but the issue is primarily diet. Too many sugars in the diet, and probably also insufficient or imbalanced minerals. It also suggests that you don't have a brilliant wall connection (which is highly likely, given the dietary issues), as concavity, sole depth and wall connection are all closely connected.

My suggestion would be to look back over some of the barefoot diet threads on here, and make a plan to tackle his excess carb intake, and provide sufficient minerals. :)
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It is very difficult to actual see his feet properly because of his issues (will only hold them up for a second - I have only had him for 3 weeks) but, from what I can see the collatoral grooves aren't that deep at all. I completely agree that it is his diet that needs looking into - he is on low sugar, high fibre (no mixes, molasses etc) and I am going to start soaking his hay. The supplement he is currently on is brewers yeast, linseed and seaweed. I am going to get magnesium oxide for him, is there anything else which I should look at adding into his diet?

Thank you!
 
It's a tricky situation, but it sounds like you don't have much sole.

Given your limitations with booting, etc, I'd say the best option would be to go for a full forage analysis (hay and grass) and feed a bespoke diet according to what's missing in your forage. This will also tell you how much sugar the pony is getting from the forage, and whether/how much you need to restrict grazing and soak hay.

It's a faff, but when you run into problems its a good thing to fall back on imo. If an analysis isn't viable for whatever reason, then I would swap the seaweed for Pro Hoof/Pro Balance, META balance or one of the Forage Plus balancers.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRO-HOOF-1-8KG-HIGH-CONCENTRATED-EQUINE-SUPPLEMENT-/280812474779

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRO-BALANCE-1-8KG-Forage-Balancer-General-Health-Supplement-Horse-Minerals-/280882033281?pt=UK_Horse_Wear_Equipment&hash=item4165dfb281

http://shop.forageplus.com/epages/es137718.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es137718/Products/FPS

Equimins META balance is only available over the phone (01548 531770
), though I've heard reports about people being refused it, for some reason.
 
brighteyes said:
Alarm bells are ringing for me - treat as for laminitis with diet and management. NOW. Reassess in a fortnight.
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Yes, this is what the vet has said by keeping him on a deep bed on boxrest, supporting his feet and they will come out again in a week.

His hay will be soaked and feed remain as high in fibre, low in sugar as possible.
 
redredruby said:
Yes, this is what the vet has said by keeping him on a deep bed on boxrest, supporting his feet and they will come out again in a week.

His hay will be soaked and feed remain as high in fibre, low in sugar as possible.
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Why the need for a feed? Unmollassed chaff to carry a supplement and any meds should suffice. I would only be feeding soaked hay and chaff,
 
redredruby said:
The vet said that it may be that he needs shoes on to support his frogs, such as heartbar, but I would have thought there would be more we could do first? Any advice greatly appreciated! :)
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If he has flat feet then his frogs are probably already on the floor. Can you ask your vet why he thinks supporting the back half of the frog on a bar of steel will do a better job than supporting the whole thing on the floor?

He shouldn't need shoes if this is laminitis and you can get his diet under control. Once his attachment regrows firm, as it will on a new diet unless he has a metabolic disease, then he will be fine. Even if he was to rotate, he can still grow a new foot attached at the correct angle, it just takes time.

You have obviously pretty much rescued the poor little fellow. Good luck with him.
 
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