A What Would You Do Question

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loverly

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So my grey mare has 2 steps forward 5 steps back. She bucks if I lean over her and accidently touch her, will reverse and spin on the lunge and longreining, but some days she's as good as gold.

She is a lovely mare in the stable that working her makes no sense to why she has such an anxiety.

I've had a few professionals cast there opinion know her but to no avail. One has said he'd help but had a text saying he's changed his mind and cannot help. Another flatly refused to work with her.

I've spoken to her previous owner about taking her back but she cannot for whatever reason.

Unfortunately I do not have a bottomless pit of money to throw at her so weighing up my options has come to this...

Sending her to someone who breaks her in for a couple weeks, although this may not be long enough to accomplish anything.

Keep going with the groundwork.

Breeding from her so I know the full history of the foal. I risk passing on this anxiety but we believe it stems from mistreatment of some kind.

So which would you do?
 
Either perservere or look for someone near you who can maybe offer advice and assistance. Shame you're all the way 'down there' as i know someone who could help if you were more Northern! :)

How old is she?
 
I have sent a pm with the number of a very good behaviourist/ trainer that is not too far from you, he will give an honest and fair assessment as to what can be done with your mare, he will not rip you off and will get the job done if anyone can.
 
Sounds like a tough situation, I would not under any circumstances breed from her though.
If you can get further assistance with her to get her right if that is possible then I think you should try that. Good luck with her
 
Thanks be positive. I will give him a ring.

She's 4. Bought as professionally broken and then turned away. Was told she was calm and sensible even in heavy traffic.

However soon after I got her it was evident she isn't the above. Bronks, bolts and bucks. I took her back to basics by slowly introducing tack through long reining and lunging. She accepted this quickly but as soon as any pressure is on her she panics and her flight instinct becomes apparent.

I've tried tying leggings filled with sand to act as "legs" and she either bucks or refuses to move. You can see the anxiety in her eyes and way of going.

I've also leant over her and if i touch her shell shoot forwards and buck.
 
This may sound like a silly idea but have you tried laying over her with her being held by someone on a sensible, older horse that she knows and gets on with?

She sounds EXACTLY like my boy but this made the difference for him. He seems to take confidence from the second horse and it settles him
 
No physical problems?
2 to 3 weeks at a good professional yard will make a difference IMO if you already have done a bit with her.
What is her routine/ feeding regime?

p.s Have you got anywhere safe to 'loose school'. Often we do this, e.g. put on saddle and let them work it out by themselves. That we they learn they can buck/ bolt etc. to no avail and settle down by themselves. Wouldn't work if you don't have a secure area to do it in though!
 
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HayleyDL said:
This may sound like a silly idea but have you tried laying over her with her being held by someone on a sensible, older horse that she knows and gets on with?

She sounds EXACTLY like my boy but this made the difference for him. He seems to take confidence from the second horse and it settles him
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I haven't tried this. She doesn't really get on with other horses, but could try.

dominobrown said:
No physical problems?
2 to 3 weeks at a good professional yard will make a difference IMO if you already have done a bit with her.
What is her routine/ feeding regime?
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She out at 8am and in by 4pm. Ad-lib hay and fed once of mollichaff, balancer and condition mix.

I'm quite hesitant to send her away as had been done by sending a previous horse to an event rider who over schooled him and he turned into a nappy, stale horse afterwards. BUT i know there are good professionals out there so shall do some asking around.
 
I would swop conditioning mix for something like allen and page calm and condition. Amazing how feed affects their brains!
Also have you had a physio to her back? I had one that was a complete SOB to back, turned out it had a multitude of back problems!
 
dominobrown said:
I would swop conditioning mix for something like allen and page calm and condition. Amazing how feed affects their brains!
Also have you had a physio to her back? I had one that was a complete SOB to back, turned out it had a multitude of back problems!
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Will look into her feed again.. Shes had her back and teeth checked so nothing on that front.
 
Do not breed from her.
Why is this an option?

Either stick with ground work slowing building It up, you will progress.

Or find someone, either professionalsl to do it for you or sell her to someone experienced that has the time to do it.
 
I'm sure you know this but please do not leave her to buck in the school.

Did she do this from the word go or is it since the other thing happened.

If she has always done it then I think you have been done tbh. Have you spoken to the pro backer and did you see any photo or video evidence of her being ridden.

I wouldn't breed.

Send to a reputable pro for assessment IMO.
 
Its been two months since your first post on the behavioural problems so I would bite the bullet and see if anyone can take her and literally re-break her

The dummy legs idea of yours was good, did you try that in the end?

I cant believe the last owner has washed their hands so completely :(

I wouldnt breed from her personally, if you want to draw a line under the situation perhaps look at rehoming her as a project horse - just be selective on where she goes!
 
I'd never breed from a horse with any sort of behavioural problem.

(Actually I wouldn't breed from any horse unless it was working at a very high level / conformation show winner. I can't stand breeding just to give mares something to do but that's a whole other debate! ;) )


Nothing to add except what the others have said:

teeth, back and saddle check (I see you did this from reading on)
minimal feed needed - high fibre, low starch %. Definitely lose the conditioning feed.
get some professional help - are you or could you be on a yard with someone who could help?

I really hope it all works out for you :)
 
On a forum it is difficult to say whether this is a fear, pain or pain naughtiness issue.

I have started many horses that were problematic and the initial decision as to why a horse behaves as it does has to be the first thing assessed.

Once a pain issue has been ruled out the treatment I use for fear and naughtiness for very difficult horses, is to lay them down. This puts them in their most vulnerable position and, when nothing but nice happens, they realise that life is not as bad as they thought it was.

This is not something for the uninitiated and only as a last resort.
 
A long shot, but some horses are so sensitive that a previous pain related issue is not forgotten and they expect the pain long after it's been dealt with, and react as if it's still a problem. I doubt you'll be able to get her history to find this out. If thats the reason it will be a long slow job. Can be done but lots of time and patience needed.
Sorry if you've stated her breed and I've missed it, but is she a TB by any chance.
Also is this any time of year or just during warmer months when she's cycling.
 
Can't seem to quote on my phone so ill try to answer all questions.

Yes she bucked and reared the second day I got her . She fell over backwards when rearing and has never done it since.However the bucking has remained.

Saddle checked, teeth rasped and wolf teeth removed and checked by a physio all of which found no evidence of pain (except wolf teeth).

Im struggling yo find a feed for her as she really is a poor doer. Will try calm & condition.

I generally do not believe the old owner believes me when i tell her what the horse is doing. I've sent photos and asked her to.come and see for herself as she's less than 1hours drive away.

I very stupidly.believed she had been.broken as I knew her breeder etc...

Yes she TB!!

Please PM me any recommendations for breaking, in theory happy to travel throughout Cornwall/Devon/somerset areas.
 
loverly said:
I haven't tried this. She doesn't really get on with other horses, but could try.



She out at 8am and in by 4pm. Ad-lib hay and fed once of mollichaff, balancer and condition mix.

I'm quite hesitant to send her away as had been done by sending a previous horse to an event rider who over schooled him and he turned into a nappy, stale horse afterwards. BUT i know there are good professionals out there so shall do some asking around.
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I had a similar mare - although she was a bit older when the trouble started. She could not tolerate any of the feed ingredients that you are feeding, except alfalfa.
I suggest you stop all feed except hay for about 3 weeks, then gradually introduce individual ingredients one at a time, monitoring her behaviour carefully to pinpoint exactly what is causing the trouble.
Do you know what the previous owner fed?

ETA, my mare was TBx and had been bought back by the breeder after being neglected. She was then fed up far too quickly on high sugar & cereal feeds. She developed an intolerance to these ingredients, we tried all sorts of 'cures' until we finally realised what was causing the problems.
 
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Have you created merry hell with the vendor? What you thought you bought and when you were sold...... Completely different.
If you've exhausted all possible causes and are still coming up with no answers I'd pack her off to either Jason Webb (based in Kent) or a chap called Neil Smith (based in beds, google Horsewyse to get in contact).
 
loverly said:
Pearlsasinger - that's really interesting as i would have never have thought feed makes that much difference.

Went into my feed supplier and she recommended A&P calm abduction condition and mollichaff calmer.
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Feed can make a huge difference. I bought a horse that I thought was going to be unrideable but, long story short, took him off sugar and alfalfa and got a different horse.

As someone else has said, cut out hard feed for a week or so and see what difference that makes.
 
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