A wwyd.. backing a 3yr old

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ldlp111

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Ok so will try to keep this quick.

Bought a 8 month old just over 2 yrs ago, she's 3 yrs now (3 end of March). I have done not alot with her.
She has had saddle on, and bridle on. I have done a small amount of long-reining and have leant across her with no saddle on.
I am currently just doing stuff on my own using clicker training, which she does seem to love.
I don't have an arena to use only either the field she is in or can now go in other bit of field (was growing for hay but this is cut and gone now.)
I originally planned to back her myself, but she has got abit bigger than intended and I have taken over running a campsite so not got as much time as I thought i'd have.
I now need to decide on how to proceed.

Options are:-

1, send her away to someone else to back.
2, get someone in to help me back her.
3, loan her to someone who wants to start there own horse to compete etc
4, carry on as I am.

Bit reluctant with 3 as think i'd miss the silly sod and I do have a friend who I was planning on asking her to compete her and ride etc once she's backed, as i'd then have someone to hack out with as keep my 3 on own land.

So any tips, advice, people in somerset/devon who back horses etc welcome. :)
 
I wouldn't back her until she's four, so I would carry on doing what you are doing. Better to leave them until 4/5 IMO. I think what you are doing will be giving her the best start in life. You will have a much longer lasting ridden life for her if you wait a bit.
 
Wagtail said:
I wouldn't back her until she's four, so I would carry on doing what you are doing. Better to leave them until 4/5 IMO. I think what you are doing will be giving her the best start in life. You will have a much longer lasting ridden life for her if you wait a bit.
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This!! :D Do what you are doing then just turn her away over winter til next spring :o
 
Really, she just seems to crave attention. Also people keep asking what are you doing with her, she's getting big back her now before she's even bigger and stronger. Btw she's not enormous think she's about 15.3 ish, bigger than my barely 15.2. A couple have also said don't back her yourself...

Hmm well food for thought thanks :) Will perhaps carry on as am teaching her random stuff (although think i'm gonna work on getting her used to having foot on farrier stand etc as she's abit of a fidget)
Am looking into a bareback pad at present and carry on leaning over her with this on (give me something to hold onto lol ;) )
 
Personally I'd go 2. If your clicker training and long reining then the basics are there. Use clicker training to solidify the standing for mounting and it shouldn't take much long reining to solidify the brakes, steering, confidence to walk out etc. Just make sure shes listening well to vocal cues as this will be your backup when first being ridden. You just need help for the first few mounting, walking and trotting with riders weight sessions really. But that doesn't take long, two/three sessions normally for most horses. Maybe someone around for mounting a few more times for safety, then your good to continue training solo and hacking with company.
If really struggling for time no 1, but only go with a trainer recommended by folk you trust. The a bad trainers work can be impossible to undo.
Editing to add I'd also wait till 3 and a half /4 to make sure she's fully grown and her skeletal systems fully formed.
 
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I was of the opinion that we should leave horses until they are four before backing. However, I now live in France in a region with a mild climate year round. There is a big difference between the foals I breed here, always born in March or early April and summer foals born in the north of the UK.

We have backed two pure bred Cleveland Bay mares born in France in March, in the summer of their third year, but left a Yorkshire summer born filly until she was four. If you have no need or time to back now, why not continue with what you are doing. Horse box loading, walk her out in hand, lots of pre-backing.

This filly is 3 years old. She has been lunged and long reined, saddle, bridle, she has been led with me leaning over her back. She is now with a trainer and being loose schooled over jumps. He will back her next week, she will spend a month with him and come home for the winter. I don't think she will suffer from having a light weight rider on her back.

IMG_2340_zpsjjmak9eb.jpg
 
I'd go with option 2 and I'd be cracking on with it as soon as she's 3yrs old. As soon as she had a few basics in place I'd be hacking her, short rides around 1/2hr 3x a week, a little bit of formal schooling once a week, no real work until 4yrs.
 
I would play with/educate/enjoy her another year then re evaluate as a lot can change in a year. I don't believe they should be properly broken in until four anyway regardless of where they were born or breed, science has proven to us that horses major growth plates regardless of breed are rarely mature before four years of age.
 
I too would leave her for a good while. We bought a just broken 3 year old three years ago, I am currently re-backing and breaking her, now she has the physical and mental maturity to cope. She is with us for life and I have no need to rush. Tell those who are telling you that you should break her now that they can do with their horses what they wish and so will you! I have told a few people this, with varying degrees of force :D
 
This is really interesting as I've got a 2yr old (April born) and lots of people ask me what my plans are re breaking him in. He's currently just doing basics and continuing keeping good manners etc. He's a big boy at least 16hh at the moment so no idea what height he'll finish at. My plan is though to take my time and let him finish growing, the plan is he's with me for life so I'm in no rush!

I do think it's important not to do too much too soon so like others have said I'd leave till 4 years old.
 
chased by bees said:
Editing to add I'd also wait till 3 and a half /4 to make sure she's fully grown and her skeletal systems fully formed.
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Neversaydie said:
I don't believe they should be properly broken in until four anyway regardless of where they were born or breed, science has proven to us that horses major growth plates regardless of breed are rarely mature before four years of age.
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Just quoting these to correct some mis-information. The growth plates in the vertebral column don't fuse until a horse is at least five and a half years old. If your horse is really big, then it need even longer than that to mature skeletally.

http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_2008/ranger_piece_2008_pdf1.pdf
 
Leave her a bit longer to back, my 8 year old was backed rising seven and he was 16:3 so doesn't matter how big just the personality that counts.
 
I also would leave her another year. I find it odd that people are telling you to do it before she is bigger and stronger. She is already bigger and stronger than you...
 
I wonder how many people who always respond to these sorts of threads with "don't do anything until they're 4-5-6 etc." have actually had the range of experience to find out if there is a big difference? I've backed everything from a 2 year old (won't be doing that again) to a 13 year old, and everything in between. There is a reason why the traditional way was to break in at 3 (or actually, to start horses in traces at 2 1/2 and then sit on at 3); it's when MOST horses are big enough to start learning to carry a rider and when they are most receptive to being told what to do. Any decent horseman will know not to make 3 year olds work hard, just as a horseman will know to leave a big, weak, clumsy youngster til later.

In my experience (lots, as in 100's, of horses broken over many, as in 40+, years), the majority of horses should be broken at 3, educated at 4 and start real, grownup work from 5. Those who don't have to make a living at it, or don't have defined competition goals, or whatever, will of course do things as they wish.
 
I'm with you Cortez, though I've broken far fewer than you have. I would like to see some real research that hacking a 3 year old about quietly will shorten their working life.

I don't like seeing 3 year olds schooled in any serious way, though.
 
I'd send her away to get backed, when she comes back to you then you can hack her for a few weeks and then turn her away over winter. Then can bring her back into work in spring.
 
I've only backed three horses, all for my personal use, so I don't have the depth of experience of the above posters. However , all the horses I backed were for me, so I saw no gain in not being patient and doing things slowly. In my opinion 4 is plenty young enough to start. At 3 I would play around with ground work and getting them used to all the things I need them to do as one of my horses. That would also include in hands walks out. I see no point in taking a risk and maybe shorting it's working life, or causing myself problems in the future. In the end OP you will do what you see fit to .
 
Faracat said:
Just quoting these to correct some mis-information. The growth plates in the vertebral column don't fuse until a horse is at least five and a half years old. If your horse is really big, then it need even longer than that to mature skeletally.

http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_2008/ranger_piece_2008_pdf1.pdf
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The first quote I can see needing corrected but I read the second posters quote stating rarely so I wouldn't say you needed to correct it. They are saying before four so five is after four as far as I know :)

Also they are backing up what you have just stated so really it just looks like you are being a picky know it all with this post. I was always under the impression that the vertebral column was the last to fuse.
 
I do think that you talk sense Cortez and I wish that some people had half the brain that you do. I'm actually quite demoralized by some of the sadder elements the horse world at the moment. One of those being immature young horses ridden with an overbent neck but no self carriage. The 'trainer' I'm thinking of (I don't want PM's about this please - I am thinking about a specific person that i know of, not slating everyone who has ever backed a horse) didn't leave the school either, it was just constant circling, circling, circling with the horse's nose on it's chest.

Sorry, back on track...

One of my horses was left until five for backing. It was the right thing in his case, he was so dreadfully immature both physically and mentally at four. One of the main things that i try to do is to set the horse up to succeed. This one just needed more time before he was ready. Rushing him would not have been a positive experience for all involved.

This is him at four and a bit years old. The thing that can't be seen is the fact that he was easily overwhelmed mentally. A year later and he was much more confident and took things in his stride.

a982436a-f2fa-4de2-810f-8bd0c711c33e_zps6e843beb.jpg


So with my horses I do leave them later than what is traditional, but it has always been a carefully thought out decision taking the individual horse into account.
 
Black Beastie said:
The first quote I can see needing corrected but I read the second posters quote stating rarely so I wouldn't say you needed to correct it. They are saying before four so five is after four as far as I know :)

Also they are backing up what you have just stated so really it just looks like you are being a picky know it all with this post. I was always under the impression that the vertebral column was the last to fuse.
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Surely 'rarely' implies that sometimes they DO mature before four years of age? This is how I read it anyway and that's why I felt it needed correcting. You can call me picky if you like, but I just wanted to clarify the subject and did add a link that explained my post.
 
Id get her topline established before backing regardless of age so she is in good position to carry a rider
 
We have just backed my 5 yr old cob. She would have been backed last year but had to have a sarcoid removed and the bridle would have rubbed the site. We are glad that we left her, as she is much more mentally mature, all at once and is also better balanced. She is absolutely taking everything in her stride.
 
My experience is that maturing mentally happens whether you back them or not, and whether you turn them away or keep them in work or not.

One of the few horses I've broken who always (and only) had his own agenda was six when I backed him. He was a phenomenal athlete , but a very opinionated and ungiving horse.

Is anyone aware of any research that's actually been done on this or is it just all anecdotes on very small numbers?
 
I always back at three I see no point in waiting and just because a horse is backed and ridden away does not mean it's done to much work.
OP I would do option 1 or 2 which I would choose would depend on which option got the person I most wanted to work with the horse .
 
Could you get someone to help you get him used to tack, long rein and do the basics this summer. Then leave him over winter and next spring start again and get help to back him and start to ride away.
Don't worry about what others think about you not doing enough with him. He's your horse and its better to take your time now and have a decent horse than to rush things and spoil him.
 
My mare was lightly backed at 3 and a half- she was under saddle for 3 weeks just hacking alone and in company, she walked trotted and cantered but mostly walked and saw traffic ( including the A12 up close and personal) from behind a post and rail fence whilst ridden, went over and under bridges and through fords.
It was over 2 years before she wore a saddle again and she was so much stronger and mentally mature I am really pleased the long break was forced upon us as we were able to just crack on, we spent another year and a half hacking before being introduced to a school.
I too would wait op or do very little under saddle as my mare was very immature physically and mentally at 3 and so different 2yrs later.
 
I think it's dependent on the horse.

Twice had a saddle, bridle and rider on three year old cob. The photos show how babyish he was. He's been left for another year and now is mature enough to have some more work done with him, but yhen he'll be turned away again over the winter and come back to inhand work and getting out in the lorry before building up the ridden work. He was a bogoff so history unknown and has turned into a real solid leg at each corner type, with a cheeky but biddable attitude.

New three year old ID is a big bobbo. He's done absolutely nothing other than routine vet, farrier and one lorry journey. He'll again meet saddle, bridle, rugs, scary things, get out in the lorry, be long reined, but won't be first backed until next Easter. The timing for him fits in nicely with my work and with moving house, and most definitely with his maturity. I'll back him with a professional's help (local chap, Ez Jeremiah) as I like his sympathetic no nonsense approach.
 
Horses, like many other species, start learning as soon as they hit the ground after birth, so it seems logical to me that they can start to be taught from that moment on, if only from other horses within a herd.

I don't like the traditional way of breaking a horse by starting on such-and-such a date with the training taking x number of weeks! Mine have a gradual training started soon after weaning. Youngsters get coats thrown over them, rubbed all over, etc. and by the time they are three, someone can mount without it being a traumatic experience.

The key is to make the training sessions brief but productive. Five minutes can be more productive than an hour. I had someone come to see a 3yo the other day that had been tacked up but not backed. The client wanted to see him sat on. I agreed that would be OK. Before I realised, the client's groom had hopped on his back and after a few moments to make sure he was OK with that, we did a walk up the field, but on the lead rein, of course. I believe that's how it should be. Slow gently imperceptible transitions from one stage of training to the next, avoiding over facing the horse at each step.

Throw the calendar away and your clock with it and train the horse at a pace it is comfortable with! Are you really going to ride a 3yo so hard that it's bones will be damaged?
 
Dry Rot said:
Horses, like many other species, start learning as soon as they hit the ground after birth, so it seems logical to me that they can start to be taught from that moment on, if only from other horses within a herd.
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Absolutely this.

I suppose we can get caught up in the moment that a horse is sat on and forget how much training you can do/happens before that moment. I agree with short sessions too with the exception of walking youngsters out in-hand. Mine have always loved doing that especially when I've had enough helpers to take the whole gang out together. Having calm older horses with you from their herd gives a youngster such confidence when they are meeting new things.
 
The whole point of starting ridden training when a horse is three is precisely BECAUSE it is not yet mentally fully mature. Older horses tend to be less co-operative, more sure of their importance in the scheme of things and less inclined to comply with what the puny human wants. This is, again, based on my experience of breaking older horses to ride - can be much more difficult.

I fully agree that horses should not be pushed beyond what they can cope with, both physically and mentally at a young age (see the Thoroughbred with all of its' common complex "issues", caused IMO by the strain of hard work on young bones, and brains). But that is what a proper horseman does; uses common sense and experience and judgement. And that is why the accumulated knowledge of several thousand years of horsemanship is actually quite useful.......
 
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