Abattoir in Cheshire welfare breaches

What really pisses me off is that these racehorse owners pay a fortune for their horses, their training fees, entry fees and everything else, but at the end they can't even pay for their horse to be shot at home. Makes no sense.

The video is very disturbing. The Turners are responsible for the actions of their employees and therefore are as guilty as those carrying out the acts. I hope they are deeply ashamed and I hope they rot in hell. They disgust me.
 
Potters are fantastic, they make no hiding of what it is they do, I have many vet and equine student friends who have been there for the day on course work and have all come away praising the place, the staff and the care of the horses. The standards are high there and all horses are dispatched humanely with compassion. I haven't had dealings with Turners, and didn't realise they didn't have a special room like potters in which they put down. I don't like the idea of horses going through like cattle in to narrow boxes, and its not case at all at Potters.
 
I understand that abattoirs are needed and have nothing against the slaughter of horses if neccessary but I do not agree with such dreadful treatment of the animals taken there and the owners/managers of that business should be ashamed that they have let such breaches occur. When it has come to the end of any of my horses lives its been ended by my vet at home,sadly the ones that we have lost have been sudden. then they have been collected by a slaughterhouse after being put down.
I hope this does tighten things up.
 
MrsJingle said:
But where Potter's employees aware that the cameras were on them?
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No, they were secret, it is an animal aid video trying to suggest that horse slaughter is awful but IMO the pictures don't tell the same story as the commentary.

If you put in 'animal aid potters' into youtube it is the first video.
 
I just want to add this establishment have been in business for a number of yrs and have always put my horses down with dignity & compassion, I suspect the owners of the business are as mortified as the rest of us!! I understand the slaughtermen in question have been sacked and dismissed immediatly:mad:!!



This business about them been stunned is also load of total rubbish!! They are shot? Look at the footage its a gun not an electrical device? I no that people can be like sheep and just follow what ever they are told etc but my father used to work at a slaughterhouse and unfortunately its a necessary evil, he assures me the device used takes a bullet and if you listen you can hear it?
 
In The Real World said:
I just want to add this establishment have been in business for a number of yrs and have always put my horses down with dignity & compassion, I suspect the owners of the business are as mortified as the rest of us!! I understand the slaughtermen in question have been sacked and dismissed immediatly:mad:!!



This business about them been stunned is also load of total rubbish!! They are shot? Look at the footage its a gun not an electrical device? I no that people can be like sheep and just follow what ever they are told etc but my father used to work at a slaughterhouse and unfortunately its a necessary evil, he assures me the device used takes a bullet and if you listen you can hear it?
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I haven't watched it, but could it be a captive bolt gun? They look like guns (some of them anyway), and sound very much like them too. They stun.
 
the ex chief vet is the one who says

'3 animals have been stunned in the same pen at the same time'

and that the black is 'coming round from the stun' (before throat is cut)- If that was gun or captive bolt that wouldn't be possible and it would just be involuntary movement and the vet wouldn't sound so concerned surely?

ETA though at about 3.11/3.12 on the vid it looks like a captive bolt?

In which case I think it's the vets commentary that has lead to that confusion.
 
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I don't wish to try and suggest he is wrong as he's a VET with letters after his name etc, but the entire story (like any scandal) is extremely one sided and I can assure you when took my old horse to be PTS there 3 weeks ago I can promise you it was nothing like the footage shown :confused:
 
I think we can suggest that he maybe used a less than accurate word ;) even if he does have letters. I just knew that 'stun' had come up somewhere and wanted to check where.
 
In The Real World said:
I don't wish to try and suggest he is wrong as he's a VET with letters after his name etc, but the entire story (like any scandal) is extremely one sided and I can assure you when took my old horse to be PTS there 3 weeks ago I can promise you it was nothing like the footage shown :confused:
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You may be right ITRW, I haven't watched it yet so can't really agree or disagree. But suppose one day may be very different to another in these places, with different staff etc. :(
 
char3479 said:
I am wholeheartedly appalled that this happens. I'm also appalled that it is still acceptable for the racing industry to keep churning out animals at such a rate in the name of profit. I hope those who turn a blind eye and happily go to the races or bet on the winners will realise they are contributing to this abhorrent situation where animals are treated as nothing more than a means to profit those who don't give a monkey's about the fate of the animals they produce. Don't anybody tell me, as they've tried to before on here, that the racing industry isn't responsible for a huge number of horses surplus to their requirements ending up dying an early, and in this case cruel, death. This is proof. I hope this case gets maximum publicity and we as a country start realising how blissfully ignorant we are to the practises that go on in our civilised nation. :mad: If a society is judged by how it treats its weakest, then we should all be bloody ashamed.
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No, the racing industry is not to blame. It is the owners that don't care what happens to them if they're no good which are the problem but don't blame the racing industry as a whole, that's not fair.
 
I can't bring myself to watch it just yet and I've seen stuff in the past, just know what's coming if I see it. I'm glad it sounds like its highlighted the huge wastage in the racing industry, may have opened some people"s eyes though doubt it will stop them betting. Just hope something good comes from it at the end of the day and that doesn't mean shutting it down just getting good employees, correct supervision etc. These places are desperately needed to prevent even more suffering, animals are already transported live further than they used to because slaughterhouses get shut down, the long term welfare is often forgotten in the immediate aftermath of these reports.
 
Maesfen said:
No, the racing industry is not to blame. It is the owners that don't care what happens to them if they're no good which are the problem but don't blame the racing industry as a whole, that's not fair.
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I appreciate that there are some conscientious owners who do their best to rehome their horses. I'm afraid they're a drop in the ocean. I'm talking about the industry as a whole because, without stating the obvious, it's a race to produce a winner and that's where the wastage comes in. The smaller establishments are, perhaps, less of a conveyor belt, but the big names with big breeding programmes are the ones who have the most wastage and are so corporate that the individual horse's needs aren't considered. These horses are monitored from the womb to the race track to see if they're fitting the bill. If not, they're surplus to requirements and are disposed of.
I think there are many involved in the industry who know this, but turn a blind eye. Money is power.
 
In The Real World said:
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It's a bit of an elaborate scam - the media are usually quite good at spotting hoaxes - it's their job. I'm not sure that it matters whether it was a captive bolt gun, a stun gun or a packet of Smarties that was used. The fact is the horse was visibly coming round when it should have been unaware of it's fate, and certainly not able to feel it. It makes no odds to the horse if the vet was wrong about the equipment used.
 
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I'm afraid I just don't get why anyone would take / send their horse to a slaughterhouse. They are such intelligent animals they must smell and sense where they are.

Why not have it done at home by a vet / hunt.

Sure it costs more but don't our horses deserve that after what they give us.
 
guesstimation said:
I can't bring myself to watch it just yet and I've seen stuff in the past, just know what's coming if I see it. I'm glad it sounds like its highlighted the huge wastage in the racing industry, may have opened some people"s eyes though doubt it will stop them betting. Just hope something good comes from it at the end of the day and that doesn't mean shutting it down just getting good employees, correct supervision etc. These places are desperately needed to prevent even more suffering, animals are already transported live further than they used to because slaughterhouses get shut down, the long term welfare is often forgotten in the immediate aftermath of these reports.
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I agree - absolutely better to do it here than transport live.
 
I might get shot down for this, but I just can't understand how anybody and I am not on about the meat men, could take their horses to a place like that to be pts, we owe it to our animals to give them a safe and decent send off, I know that circumstances are different for everyone, but its the least we can do as owners to have these animals pts at home, imo !
 
Slaughter houses use the word "stun" even if the device used is final. A properly placed captive bolt induces immediate and terminal unconsciousness, however the animal should then be "pithed" which is basically sticking a long thing in to the hole and destoys the brain stem completely. Done properly captive bolt should be no different to the bullet. Problem is you have to be accurate with it to get a good result on horses, hence a lot of people don't recommend it's use. It can sometimes be a safer option though, ESP in an inclined space or where there are many people present and live firearms could present a risk. I've had horses done with both and have a friend who is a knacker man who sometimes uses the captive bolt in certain situations. I think the main issue in this film is the obvious stress these poor horses are going through. The horse shouldn't be coming round in the video but this is probably due to inaccurate shot, not helped by the fact that they are being shot in what is essentially a stunning box designed for cattle.
 
In The Real World said:
I don't wish to try and suggest he is wrong as he's a VET with letters after his name etc, but the entire story (like any scandal) is extremely one sided and I can assure you when took my old horse to be PTS there 3 weeks ago I can promise you it was nothing like the footage shown :confused:
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In The Real World said:
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maxapple said:
I'm afraid I just don't get why anyone would take / send their horse to a slaughterhouse. They are such intelligent animals they must smell and sense where they are.

Why not have it done at home by a vet / hunt.

Sure it costs more but don't our horses deserve that after what they give us.
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ELFSBELLS said:
I might get shot down for this, but I just can't understand how anybody and I am not on about the meat men, could take their horses to a place like that to be pts, we owe it to our animals to give them a safe and decent send off, I know that circumstances are different for everyone, but its the least we can do as owners to have these animals pts at home, imo !
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Firstly I haven't watched the video as I can't bring myself to do it - but I have read the reports of what has happened.

My personal choice and opinion is the same as Max Apple and Elfsbells however, there are people that use the services of Potters and Turners and In the Real World has been brave enough to say they have.

ITRW, would you be willing to share why you choose this method rather than vet or hunt?

This is a genuine question and not intended provoke unnecessary posts against ITRW
 
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char3479 said:
I appreciate that there are some conscientious owners who do their best to rehome their horses. I'm afraid they're a drop in the ocean. I'm talking about the industry as a whole because, without stating the obvious, it's a race to produce a winner and that's where the wastage comes in. The smaller establishments are, perhaps, less of a conveyor belt, but the big names with big breeding programmes are the ones who have the most wastage and are so corporate that the individual horse's needs aren't considered. These horses are monitored from the womb to the race track to see if they're fitting the bill. If not, they're surplus to requirements and are disposed of.
I think there are many involved in the industry who know this, but turn a blind eye. Money is power.
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Agreed. I have a friend who is one of these people. She was part of a syndicate, their horse did not make the grade, she went to Ascot and with her trainers help, bought the horse. He is a very laid back 3 year old, currently on a holiday to put on weight, change of feed etc as was in proper racing condition. He is coming to my yard in the spring as my yard owner is a prof event rider and will be reschooled. My friend has no expectations, if he turns out to be a nice hack she will keep him for herself, if he turns out to be uber talented he might well be sold. Friend loves her racing, but also has always taken the view that an animal is for life..thought that a nice story would cheer you lot up as here is one racehorse that has only ever known a good life! She earns her own money so it is all coming out of her pocket and not a nice trust fund or wealthy hubby either!
 
char3479 said:
It's a bit of an elaborate scam - the media are usually quite good at spotting hoaxes - it's their job. I'm not sure that it matters whether it was a captive bolt gun, a stun gun or a packet of Smarties that was used. The fact is the horse was visibly coming round when it should have been unaware of it's fate, and certainly not able to feel it. It makes no odds to the horse if the vet was wrong about the equipment used.
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I think it does matter, hence discussing it. The use of an electric stun (as frequently used for other species) renders the animal unconscious but does not destroy any brain tissue and therefore if it is not bled out quickly the chances or an animal coming round might be higher than when a captive bolt is used (and brain tissue destroyed).

natalia said:
Slaughter houses use the word "stun" even if the device used is final. A properly placed captive bolt induces immediate and terminal unconsciousness, however the animal should then be "pithed" which is basically sticking a long thing in to the hole and destoys the brain stem completely. Done properly captive bolt should be no different to the bullet. Problem is you have to be accurate with it to get a good result on horses, hence a lot of people don't recommend it's use. It can sometimes be a safer option though, ESP in an inclined space or where there are many people present and live firearms could present a risk. I've had horses done with both and have a friend who is a knacker man who sometimes uses the captive bolt in certain situations. I think the main issue in this film is the obvious stress these poor horses are going through. The horse shouldn't be coming round in the video but this is probably due to inaccurate shot, not helped by the fact that they are being shot in what is essentially a stunning box designed for cattle.
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Natalia thanks very much for this explanation :). I agree that the main issue in the film was the handling/stress of the horses.
 
maxapple said:
I'm afraid I just don't get why anyone would take / send their horse to a slaughterhouse. They are such intelligent animals they must smell and sense where they are.

Why not have it done at home by a vet / hunt.

Sure it costs more but don't our horses deserve that after what they give us.
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I've taken a horse there and can assure you that it had no sense whatsoever of where it was headed. It was calm and relaxed and the job in hand was done humanely. Sentimentality is all well and good but real life often doesn't work out like that.
 
cronkmooar said:
Firstly I haven't watched the video as I can't bring myself to do it - but I have read the reports of what has happened.

My personal choice and opinion is the same as Max Apple and Elfsbells however, there are people that use the services of Potters and Turners and In the Real World has been brave enough to say they have.

ITRW, would you be willing to share why you choose this method rather than vet or hunt?

This is a genuine question and not intended provoke unnecessary posts against ITRW
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The hunt shoot so, in my mind, there is little different to the abattoir. I had it done because it was, IMO, as humane and quick as an injection to PTS. It may be less palatable for many of us to watch but for the horse, it is instant and it knows no difference. If you have livestock, then you have deadstock and, as unsavoury as it may be, it has to be dealt with.
 
I had my old horse shot when he had to be pts. That's not what I think is an issue - what I don't understand is why people wouldn't get it done at home where it has to be much less stressful for the horse.

Just my personal opinion of course - but I am interested in why people do take their horses to slaughterhouses. What are the benefits to you / your horse of doing so? I'm asking out of curiosity rather than criticising anyone here.
 
Because they get paid money, a price per kilo and they want their last pound of flesh.

TBF, in some cases they have no other option if their finances are tight, there are no facilities around them or their YO won't allow it to be done at home.

I know of one person, a trainer's brother and there will be many more doing exactly the same, that would pay people for their knackers and then take a lorryful down to either Bristol or Sound where he would get paid a bit more. While I would never have used him I do appreciate that for some people it was the only way out and the horses would all have been kept and travelled well while with him to the slaughterhouse.
 
I personally wouldnt but wouldn't have a problem with anyone doing it. Mine are pets as are any of the farm lot I take on. If livestock I woulfnt mind. Also I'd rather it than kept suffering. Especially if local. In the main they are very good places, the animals are not afraid and are despatched quickly and professionally.

And rather than costing 400, the last one I saw go earned 400.

As Marsden said too, sometimes you aren't allowed to do it on site.
 
Mine will be done at home should the time come, but I have no problem with people using the likes of Potters. I don't really see much difference in taking a horse to Potters or taking the horse to the hunt. It will be shot and used either way. The only difference is being paid or paying...
 
Well I brought myself to watch it and although it's shocking I'm not entirely surprised. I think I've watched worse videos (on here in fact) from regular abbatoirs; one of the many reasons I'm veggie. Try a search in latest news. The black horse coming round will stay with me a while though:(

Mine will be done at home but I think people shouldn't be so quick to judge those who take horses to slaughter. It costs quite a lot to have a horse put down at home and If you're that broke there isn't really any other option. I watched the Potters footage in the past and didn't see a problem with it at all, although not what I would choose for mine.

Why are they called Red Lion and not Turners though? I'm confused. Also a bit surpised they recommend in their statement that some horses are shot/ stunned together despite this being illegal!

Hopefully someone will prosecute. I expect this will be left to the RSPCA which might be something to consider before you withdraw your donations....
 
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