Abbatoirs ....and "rescue"...

[stormox]

I have 2 questions regarding abbatoirs, that go together.
No.1 is if I sell a horse to a knackerman, meatman or factory buyer is the horse his, or am I paying him to do a job - ie take the horse and have it killed?
No.2 is is the abbatoir or knackerman allowed to sell that horse to a 'rescue' or other buyer without me knowing?
Although I hated seeing the bad practices at the abbatoir last night, it has sparked a local rescue into asking for donations 'to save these beautiful horses' from the evil killers, and I have qualms about this - if I ever couldnt have a horse euthanised at home and sent it to a knackerman I would want to know it had actually been killed and not see it for sale from a dealer or rescue.

 

[AmyMay]

You’re not selling it to an abattoir, you’re paying for their services. As far as I’m aware, legally they can not sell an animal on.

 

[stormox]

You’re not selling it to an abattoir, you’re paying for their services. As far as I’m aware, legally they can not sell an animal on.

Yes this is what I thought. But sometimes a middleman is used - ie the ads that say 'factory horses wanted' or I used to know a chap we called a knackerman - bought very cheap lame or injured horses and ones people gave him for killing and took them to anbatoir himself.

 

[I'm Dun]

the local knacker man caused a huge kerfuffle a few years ago when it was found out he was taking horses hed been asked to PTS and rehoming them. It wasnt all of them, just the ones he didnt think should be PTS. Nothing came of it n the end, so I'm assuming he owned the horses once he was paid.

 

[Jeni the dragon]

I think it can be real sticky one! I'm sure @Ambers Echo knows of someone who has bought a horse, unknowingly, after it had been sent off.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Turners back in the day when it was well respected and humanely operated would keep an eye out for decent horses coming in and would keep them for their own use. Don't think they were sold on.

 

[TheMule]

The abattoir shown in the program would not take a horse off the production line- once it's booked in, it's slaughtered for meat (or the carcass disposed of if not suitable for human consumption)
If anyone wanted to intervene they could go to the low end sales and outbid the person buying up to then take them there.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I think it can be real sticky one! I'm sure @Ambers Echo knows of someone who has bought a horse, unknowingly, after it had been sent off.

Yes exactly that. My friend bought a gelding from a Fb ad in England. Did a bit of digging out of curiosity and got in contact with a woman in Ireland who was horrified as she had sent the horse for slaughter in Ireland as he was dangerous. Had passed a vetting. Discovered later that the England based seller was one of the well known mega-dodgy ones using a new Fb profile. It was obviously a scam in cahoots with the abattoir. Police advised my friend that you should always ask for a date stamped photo of the body. The crime was committed in Ireland so nothing could be done.

 

[Flyermc]

Yes exactly that. My friend bought a gelding from a Fb ad in England. Did a bit of digging out of curiosity and got in contact with a woman in Ireland who was horrified as she had sent the horse for slaughter in Ireland as he was dangerous. Had passed a vetting. Discovered later that the England based seller was one of the well known mega-dodgy ones using a new Fb profile. It was obviously a scam in cahoots with the abattoir. Police advised my friend that you should always ask for a date stamped photo of the body. The crime was committed in Ireland so nothing could be done.

oh my word, what happened to the horse? was it several years or months between the old owner and the new owner? did the dealer get away with it?

 

[Ample Prosecco]

It was just a few weeks between owners. My friend had the horse put down to secure his future rather than send him back to dealer. The old owner paid towards that too and some of the purchase price as it was a hell of a lot to lose and she was also desperate for horse not to go back to the dealer. Dealer kept her cash and presumably still does this. Nice profit in it.

I totally understand the logic of not sending horses back to people who are so cruel and dishonest. I’m glad my friend put an end to it. But on the other hand people’s desire to protect an individual horse makes the whole wretched business profitable. I just get depressed if I think about it too much ?

 

[spotty_pony]

There is one in France which rescues horses which are sent from the UK and are en route to Italy. I can't remember the name of it but, there are lots on there for rehoming that the knackerman has sold to them. It says they must remain anonymous if they take one on in fear of the old owner finding out they are still alive! Just another reason to do the right thing and have the horse pts whilst you are there so you know that it has actually happened.

 

[Orangehorse]

I knew some dealers and they would sometimes go and have a look at what the local meat man had (it must have been 30 odd years ago). The one she was telling me about was a very nice looking horse and the man said she was welcome to have a closer look, and grinned. She went to approach it and it went to attack her - obviously why it was there. I went to Potters once and they had horses turned out in adjacent fields so they obviously just didn't turn up and go straight to be killed. If you were taking one you could book a time, and go and watch if you wanted to - to make sure it was dead I suppose.

 

[Gloi]

There was a dealer near me 30 years ago who used to buy at auctions and hold in one of his fields before taking to Potters. I went to look round them occasionally and bought a couple of little ponies I broke to drive and sold on.

 

[Winters100]

Exactly the reason that when I have had to PTS they have not left my hands alive. All done at home, and never without good reason. One was a brain tumour, I could imagine someone seeing her on a good day and thinking why is someone so wicked as to send a lovely young horse to be killed? When she felt pain she would literally throw herself around, rear, fall, then get up and do it again. She was a danger to herself and others and I certainly would not have let her leave the yard alive.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Unfortunately I have it on good authority that it is still not that unusual for a horse that has been sent to the abattoir here in Ireland to find itself in the UK being sold on by bin end dealers as a riding horse regardless of the reason it was originally intended to be shot here in Ireland.

I can only hope that all the new paperwork and legal customs checks etc. etc. between Ireland and UK since Brexit will have put and end to this very dishonest and unsavoury practice, both for the poor horse's sake and the luckless new owners.

 

[Hepsibah]

I have 2 questions regarding abbatoirs, that go together.
No.1 is if I sell a horse to a knackerman, meatman or factory buyer is the horse his, or am I paying him to do a job - ie take the horse and have it killed?
No.2 is is the abbatoir or knackerman allowed to sell that horse to a 'rescue' or other buyer without me knowing?
Although I hated seeing the bad practices at the abbatoir last night, it has sparked a local rescue into asking for donations 'to save these beautiful horses' from the evil killers, and I have qualms about this - if I ever couldnt have a horse euthanised at home and sent it to a knackerman I would want to know it had actually been killed and not see it for sale from a dealer or rescue.

I think the answer is in the question. If you Sell a horse to anyone it becomes theirs to do whatever they wish with but if you are paying them it's a service they have agreed to perform in exchange for payment.

 

[sport horse]

Moral of the story? Fuss up and get your old/unwanted horses put down at their own home so you know for sure it is done. It seems particularly prevalent in Ireland that animals sent for slaughter find their way to ther places. If people did their own 'dirty' work it could not happen.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I have only put one horse down and that was done at home. But older/unfixable RS ponies often go to an abattoir just 10 minutes away. I rang about a pony once to arrange it on behalf of someone on the yard. I was told they would shoot the horse in a field away from any smells. I said I would not want to watch the horse fall and they said I could lead her in, give her an apple and leave. And she would die moments later with an apple in her mouth not knowing anything about it. I actually didn’t take the pony in the end. But it just would never ever have occurred to me that they could take the pony off me and then sell it on. I’m too naive. Not everyone sends to an abattoir because they are selfish or can’t be bothered to secure a safe end. You trust people to do what they say they are going to do .

 

[Esmae]

Years ago my old boss used to regularly go and buy horses from the abattoir. He then used them in the hunting field. The ones I knew were beautiful, useful horses.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Moral of the story? Fuss up and get your old/unwanted horses put down at their own home so you know for sure it is done. It seems particularly prevalent in Ireland that animals sent for slaughter find their way to ther places. If people did their own 'dirty' work it could not happen.

Well said. Enough with the indignant posts about the horror of it all. If only all horse owners took full responsibility for their horse's welfare all the way through their ownership right up to that last breath. Not just when the animal was of 'use' to them, then the problem of inhumane and cruel disposal and the horrific conditions at the end of its life simply would not happen.

 

[ester]

Our local once had a trio of section As (mum, daughter, son)as a result of an death of the owner/non horsey family. Mum was an absolute angel, total kids ride and went to a private home. The other two went to a local riding school and one needed a bit of work as green but were great ponies, still there I think!

He also used to go to the new forest sales and turned them out if he thought worth keeping. Friend had 4 off him which were all lovely.

 

[Merrymoles]

Years ago when I worked at a riding school, the knackerman used to come to us. Does this not happen any more?

 

[Equine_Dream]

Moral of the story? Fuss up and get your old/unwanted horses put down at their own home so you know for sure it is done. It seems particularly prevalent in Ireland that animals sent for slaughter find their way to ther places. If people did their own 'dirty' work it could not happen.

Well said indeed. I'm sorry but people need to suck it up and take responsibility for their horses. For those who would find watching their beloved horse shot too difficult (no judgement whatsoever) there are other options such as asking an experienced and trusted friend to be there at the end or bhs friends at the end. I can not fathom shipping the poor thing off alive to an unknown place to be disposed of. If owners took responsibility for them, this wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Surbie]

Years ago when I worked at a riding school, the knackerman used to come to us. Does this not happen any more?

Yes it does, round my way anyway.

 

[scruffyponies]

The role of the Knackerman in Victorian Engand usd to include collection of not just fallen stock but broken down horses. The sight of a string of these poor beasts making their way slowly out of town was common. Most kept fields and were able to make money by resting and reviving those who owed their condition more to poor management than injury.
How many of us have perfectly good ponies/horses who have been written off at some point in their life as unsound or even dangeorus.
Amazing what rest and a change of job will do.

 

[Merrymoles]

Yes it does, round my way anyway.

I'm pretty sure it does round here too as I think there is an active one who takes livestock, dead or alive, and it makes sense to kill the cow or whatever before removing it. Surely that is a cheaper and more reliable way for end of life than sending off to an abbatoir. In the old days the knackerman used to pay meat money for horses, although I'm sure he now probably requires payment. It is also a service that many hunts provide at minimal cost.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I can not fathom shipping the poor thing off alive to an unknown place to be disposed of.

Money.

 

[The Bouncing Bog Trotter]

It does happen sadly. We had a newly acquired horse turn up on the yard, got the chip read, did some detective work and found it wasn't a recently imported ISH at all. It was a very well bred KWPN that the previous owners had sent to the abattoir. Obviously someone on the chain had thought some money could be made.

 

[Fransurrey]

It makes me feel ill to know that if I'd sent my boy away to be pts, he could well have ended up being sold on as he looked healthy. The deed was done at that time as he couldn't go on grass at all by then and I foresaw an emergency in the near future as a result. The PM showed a brain and intestinal tumours. He'd have been a prime candidate for those people who think they know better as he was a healthy weight, perky that day and a good looking pony.