abcess + q about shoes

Darremi said:
Emmm...tarmac wasn't invented back when horses travelled miles on foot to find food! Big difference to natural terrain.

I'd never have my horse unshod because he has to event, and I think it is really unfair to ask a horse to jump round 1.20m cross country for 10 minutes without shoes on all manner of ground. Fair enough unshod if you're pleasure riding. Millenium Master is the absolute minority in eventing at top level.
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What about the torque (twist) caused by studs? Does this not affect their joints? I would suggest you check out people who are eventing - even steeplechasing - barefoot.... One of the basic problems with humans is that they make assumptions and believe everything they are told!! Check this out for yourself!! Over the past 20 years I have had a number of ponies competing , not 1.20 of course, but good sized tracks, barefoot and they have travelled very confidently!!
 
I suggest you try playing football or hockey on wet grass without shoes or without studded boots and you'd realise that the use of studs is a necessary "evil" in order to provide the horse with more security and confidence that he won't slip. Fair enough horses might have enough grip without shoes for general riding, but cross country courses were not around during the evolution of the horse's foot. Forgive me if I try and make my horse feel as secure as possible by making it a bit easier for him to balance when turning.
 
Darremi said:
Emmm...tarmac wasn't invented back when horses travelled miles on foot to find food! Big difference to natural terrain.

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Lol, yes natural terrain is potentially far tougher than lovely smooth tarmac! rocks (even mountains), stones, desert like areas, bogs all constitute natural terrain, I think if roads existed all horses would have travelled on the roads and would have had beautiful self trimmed hooves doings so. You obviously know very little about the capabilities of barefoot horses.
 
Darremi said:
I suggest you try playing football or hockey on wet grass without shoes or without studded boots and you'd realise that the use of studs is a necessary "evil" in order to provide the horse with more security and confidence that he won't slip. Fair enough horses might have enough grip without shoes for general riding, but cross country courses were not around during the evolution of the horse's foot. Forgive me if I try and make my horse feel as secure as possible by making it a bit easier for him to balance when turning.
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How come people successful hunt barefoot then??
 
Darremi said:
I am sure there are people out there that ride unshod horses on tarmac. Personally I would rarely ride on tarmac shod or not. It is not good for the joints. You try running barefoot on tarmac and then think about how your horse feels! Although it may inhibit the true shock absorption of the frog, where the shoe does help is in raising the sole off the ground in order to protect it from being bruised by stones.
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I used to do more road rides unshod than I did shod, mainly because I don't trust a steel shoe on tarmac not to slip.

The concussion of a bare foot on tarmac is much less than a shod foot.

I used to regularly do a 10km road ride in about an hour (most steady trot, with some walk) on my cob (in signature) as a change from off road hacking, as the flat roads were actually better for his hock arthritis than going up and down the hills.

Depsite many years of being unshod my horse never had a stone bruise, even during the 4 day randonnées covering 60/80km per day

Sorry to hijack OP.

I would hot poultice twice a day (past the coronet band), wrap with with duck tape, stuffin a boot (or corner of feed back and chuck out. The movement they get from moving can help to force the abscess to break through. However it is important to poultice and/or tub past the coronet band, as often the abscess can back track up the hoof and burst through there rather than the sole.

Good luck :)
 
Darremi said:
I suggest you try playing football or hockey on wet grass without shoes or without studded boots and you'd realise that the use of studs is a necessary "evil" in order to provide the horse with more security and confidence that he won't slip. Fair enough horses might have enough grip without shoes for general riding, but cross country courses were not around during the evolution of the horse's foot. Forgive me if I try and make my horse feel as secure as possible by making it a bit easier for him to balance when turning.
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I hope that you realise that you are studding for YOU so that you can get a faster time, rather than because he can't jump without them?

I evented five horses in all sorts of conditions with no studs and no-one hunts with studs in.

You might also like to read the PhD written by a farrier which concludes that slipping is a safety mechanism to prevent excess stress on the joints.

And talk to a few sportsmen who wear/wore studs about cruciate ligament injuries while you are about it :)
 
cptrayes said:
And talk to a few sportsmen who wear/wore studs about cruciate ligament injuries while you are about it :)
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Yup, studs dug in, my leg had no where to go but flex the wrong way at the knee. Bye bye 18 months of education, hello 18 months of ops, painkillers and crutches. Had I not been wearing studs I would have just slid and fell and probably avoided the last 20 years of pain and discomfort. I does make me question ever studding my horses and in all the years they wore shoes I never did.
 
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I said it may well be a necessary evil because at the end of the day using studs is a trade off between the riisk of a joint injury and the danger of the horse slipping.

I have seen people fall off because the haven't put studs in and the horse has gone straight through a show jump on wet grass because they can't grip to take off. Personally I feel it is really unfair to expect a horse to try and grip without them on slippery grass without them. The type of going very much varies and I vary the stud type and size accordingly.

And hunting is completely different to eventing which requires tight turns, multiple jumping efforts and all done at higher speeds.

Considering that virtually all eventers above novice are shod I don't think my view is unreasonable. If other people want to event and hunt unshodthen good luck to them :-).

I can see that there are two very strong schools of thought here. I will now leave you all to your happy unshod lives. Apologies to the OP for disturbing your thread.
 
well farrier been back out and despite some more poking and proding cant not find the abcess to come out. She is sound in walk and hardly noticable in trot. I have turned her out with the foot being bare on a small section of field because god has the field grown since last tuesday! So she is going out at night, coming in in the day and having around 12hrs soaked hay in an attempt to get her weight down. Ill start walking her out in hand.
How long should i start to walk to build up her feet to begin with?
Is there an alternative to feeding linseed? Im feeding 50g.
Also going to get some hoof boots, farrier measured her front foot and shes 5 3/4inches in width and 6 inches in length. What would you reakon is the best pair to go for?

Thanks for all your previous replys they have been most useful.
 
Think im going to phone the vet for more advice and what to do next. Dont want to try in hand walks if it wont be good for her if you get me.
 
Darremi said:
I have seen people fall off because the haven't put studs in and the horse has gone straight through a show jump on wet grass because they can't grip to take off.
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I have done the same, and seen a lot of other people do the same over the years, on shod and studded horses.

Personally I feel it is really unfair to expect a horse to try and grip without them on slippery grass without them. The type of going very much varies and I vary the stud type and size accordingly.
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What is unfair, studded or not, is either asking your horse to do stuff which it is not ready for, or failing to be able to get your horse in balance to do what you are asking of him. Having no studs may lose you time. They are not essential.


And hunting is completely different to eventing which requires tight turns, multiple jumping efforts and all done at higher speeds.
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I do/did both. I disagree with your opinion on how different they are with regard to the need for studs. I have jumped at least at tight turns, multiple efforts, much faster and much, much higher, out hunting than I ever did up to BE Novice eventing. Do you ever jump a fence off a tarmac single track road on your BE courses?


Considering that virtually all eventers above novice are shod I don't think my view is unreasonable. If other people want to event and hunt unshodthen good luck to them :-).
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Likewise, if you feel you need shoes and studs to event then I have no issues with people doing that :) The only issue I ever had with your posts was that you appeared to be saying that it could not be done without shoes/studs and when there are dozens of barefoot eventers up to novice, several at intermediate and two Millenium horses have been advanced. That and your first assertion that serious roadwork was impossible without shoes too.

Have fun with the rest of the season, I miss it. I feel for you that you won't have the freedom of knowing that your horse cannot possibly have lost a shoe the day before a big competition that owning a barefoot horse gives you. I counted it as one of the major benefits :D
 
I phoned the vet and they gave the all clear to carry on as normal. I now need to tackle her thrush.
Could someone please answer my questions from my last post would be much appriciated thanks :)
oh measured her feet shes 143mm wide and 145mm long.
 
cptrayes said:
I have done the same, and seen a lot of other people do the same over the years, on shod and studded horses.



What is unfair, studded or not, is either asking your horse to do stuff which it is not ready for, or failing to be able to get your horse in balance to do what you are asking of him. Having no studs may lose you time. They are not essential.




I do/did both. I disagree with your opinion on how different they are with regard to the need for studs. I have jumped at least at tight turns, multiple efforts, much faster and much, much higher, out hunting than I ever did up to BE Novice eventing. Do you ever jump a fence off a tarmac single track road on your BE courses?




Likewise, if you feel you need shoes and studs to event then I have no issues with people doing that :) The only issue I ever had with your posts was that you appeared to be saying that it could not be done without shoes/studs and when there are dozens of barefoot eventers up to novice, several at intermediate and two Millenium horses have been advanced. That and your first assertion that serious roadwork was impossible without shoes too.

Have fun with the rest of the season, I miss it. I feel for you that you won't have the freedom of knowing that your horse cannot possibly have lost a shoe the day before a big competition that owning a barefoot horse gives you. I counted it as one of the major benefits :D
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Thanks, I know there are a lot of people who swear by unshod, just as there are a those who swear by shoes! Personally I like to wear shoes because I hate people treading on my toes ;). Unfortunately this event season has been a non-starter because I am lame right now...broke my collar bone!
 
Darremi said:
Thanks, I know there are a lot of people who swear by unshod, just as there are a those who swear by shoes! Personally I like to wear shoes because I hate people treading on my toes ;). Unfortunately this event season has been a non-starter because I am lame right now...broke my collar bone!
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No excuse :D I rode with a broken arm in a splint:

...http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IaGqwoQlnmA/SKRiSIVBUDI/AAAAAAAAAQs/36DxWZIQPDQ/s1600-h/George080810.jpg


I hope you are back out soon.
 
Thank you, we are entered for our first event of the season in two weeks.

Good effort! I wish that I could get mine splinted and then the bones would be stable and able to fuse. Because it is free to move around, and it connects the shoulder to the sternum this makes it difficult for the ends to join. I had my 6 week x ray yesterday and there is little sign of healing. I am already riding, but have to be careful :). Doc said wait another 6 weeks and if it's not sorted then going to have to get it plated :(.

Doesn't help that my horse likes to lean on the left rein, as it's my left arm :rolleyes:
 
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