Abler

leggs said:
I've used it for years, works perfectly, never had to pay any taxes on it.

As to it being illegal... To me it's criminal wat Merial ( producer of GG) has done, taken a drug that has existed for over 40 years, put a new package "made for horses" on it and made a fortune over our backs. Same goes for Boeringher inlgeheim that have done the same with peroglide which is now Prascend, absolute criminal behaviour. They never had to go through the whole testing phase as in new drugs (only toxidity but everyone already knew this was not a problem-hence we have used it for years prior), they just made a fancy wrapper which had the word "horse" on it and cashed it.

I have worked for Phizer in the past, know how these pharma companies operate and I made myself a promise that I'll never work for one again no matter how rough times get (self employed) they are absolute nutters and have no respect of life and have no concience.
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Look at what Astra Zeneca have done since losing Patent on Omeprazole. Created Nexium (esomeprazole) by altering the chemistry slightly to make it safer then selling it OTC because they know doctors cannot afford to prescribe it against generic forms of omeprazole and its not quite as effective its called marketing.
These products for horses still have to be tested on the species which involves cost and of course the market is not so large as for humans.
 
Vet sat opposite me said def illegal, poss not if vet prescribed you abler but they they aren't allowed to do they so they would be I the **** instead :p
 
I have ordered and used Abler products on several occasions. They arrived promptly, they were cheap, they worked and the staff via their online help were knowledgeable and helpful. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them rather than pay a rip off £800 for GG treatment via the vet.
I have friends who use Abler in low dose regularly as preventative treatment.
 
Having imported Dermobian via t'internet and received a very frightening letter 3 years later I personally wouldn't risk it, but caveat emptor and all that.
 
Was that from Vetorder? They were British and they imported the stuff. That's why the UK authorities were able to get hold of the customer list when they prosecuted them for illegal drug imports. I doubt if they could get hold of an Indian company customer list, but I can see why people wouldn't want to risk it.


I bought dermobion and got that letter too. I was using some of it today!
 
Loving this thread...

"I'm right"

"No, I'm right"

Lol. Seriously. The stuff works, its a fraction of the extortionate cost of GG, it's openly discussed all over horsey groups and forums and nobody has ever got into trouble.

Argue the rather subjective points if you will (as in, both sides could spin them to suit) but it's pretty simple really. You give it a go or you don't.

It actually worked better with George as getting GG into him became extremely difficult after the first few weeks. Abprazole plus granules in a bucket with a teeny bit of micronised linseed, honey and teeny teeny bit of chaff, 30 minutes before his proper feed worked perfectly and he improved within 3 days.
 
My experience is that it arrives quickly, it works, it's cheaper than the alternatives. Do it or don't depending on what your view is of the risk vs benefits.
 
Nicnac said:
Having imported Dermobian via t'internet and received a very frightening letter 3 years later I personally wouldn't risk it, but caveat emptor and all that.
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Who was it from and what did it say? You have to wonder who is on the legal side and who is on the protecting their own interests bandwagon
 
JillA said:
Who was it from and what did it say? You have to wonder who is on the legal side and who is on the protecting their own interests bandwagon
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It was from a government department offering immunity from prosecution for ordering from Vetorder if you signed a form saying you would not buy prescription only drugs without a prescription again, as I recollect.

I don't think it was about importing (because the company was based in England), it was about the missing prescription. At the moment, omeprazole given in the quantities required by a horse is still a prescription medicine, I think.

I think they'd have a job on their hands prosecuting the thousands of people who have bought from Abler, even of they could get hold of the customer list, which I don't think they can. I know four in person myself.

Omeprazole is a very safe drug, and it's cheaper to treat and see if it changes the behaviour than it is to put the horse through a scoping.
 
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LinzyD said:
My experience is that it arrives quickly, it works, it's cheaper than the alternatives. Do it or don't depending on what your view is of the risk vs benefits.
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I have no issue with people using it but they should be made aware of the risks!

The FDA in the states are trying very hard to shut them down because of what they term adulterated product and apparently some products only having a third of the active quoted. This is my biggest issue do you really know whats in an unregulated product. They also sell bute can you be sure there is no cross contamination if your competing who do you complain to if there is. Would you take such a medicine yourself if it was not licenced in any way.,
 
ycbm said:
It was from a government department offering immunity from prosecution for ordering from Vetorder if you signed a form saying you would not buy prescription only drugs without a prescription again, as I recollect.

I don't think it was about importing (because the company was based in England), it was about the missing prescription. At the moment, omeprazole given in the quantities required by a horse is still a prescription medicine, I think.

I think they'd have a job on their hands prosecuting the thousands of people who have bought from Abler, even of they could get hold of the customer list, which I don't think they can. I know four in person myself.

Omeprazole is a very safe drug, and it's cheaper to treat and see if it changes the behaviour than it is to put the horse through a scoping.
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Omeprazole in any quantity or strength is a POM. Esomeprazole is not the same as omeprazole,not just a different name its molecularly different.

When you say omeprazole is very safe do you know what the risks are with long term use and why its POM ,I should check it out sometime.
 
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popsdosh said:
I have no issue with people using it but they should be made aware of the risks!

The FDA in the states are trying very hard to shut them down because of what they term adulterated product and apparently some products only having a third of the active quoted. This is my biggest issue do you really know whats in an unregulated product. They also sell bute can you be sure there is no cross contamination if your competing who do you complain to if there is. Would you take such a medicine yourself if it was not licenced in any way.,
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I'd be very interested to read about that Popsdosh. I've only found references to the horse drug companies trying to shut them down. Can you tell me where you got that information?

I wonder why the FDA were bothered whether the product was up to strength or not. It's illegal to import into America, full stop. They don't need any excuses to try to shut them down.
 
popsdosh said:
Omeprazole in any quantity or strength is a POM. Esomeprazole is not the same as omeprazole,not just a different name its molecularly different.
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This is not true.

Omeprazole in small quantities is an OTC, non prescription medication.
 
If everyone was completely honest, if your horse was suffering and this relatively little (as in no-one gets hurt or upset in anyway) law breaker can fix them would you truly not do it?!
 
poiuytrewq said:
If everyone was completely honest, if your horse was suffering and this relatively little (as in no-one gets hurt or upset in anyway) law breaker can fix them would you truly not do it?!
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Exactly. My livery used GG and her insurance paid for it. She then forked out a further £2k on GG out of her own pocket when her insurance ran out. The horse had been damaged in the past by another yard starving her and no amount of forage and supplements stopped the ulcers from returning. The horse needs to be permanently on omeprazole to stay healthy, but the owner was unable to keep funding the GG. In the end it was PTS or order from Abler. She chose the latter and six years along the line the horse is still healthy and happy. Those condemning people for ordering from Abler would presumably have shot their horse in the equivalent circumstances.
 
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poiuytrewq said:
If everyone was completely honest, if your horse was suffering and this relatively little (as in no-one gets hurt or upset in anyway) law breaker can fix them would you truly not do it?!
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I think what Popsdosh is saying is that as well as the legalities, we don't know for sure that the product is exactly what it claims to be, and therefore we could be giving our horses absolutely anything in those blue granules. For me, the latter was the biggest element of the risk, but on the basis of recommendations on HHO by people whose opinions I generally agree with on all manner of things (ycbm and others), I decided it was a risk I was prepared to take. I also considered that if I were Abler, and I was making money out of 'scam' drugs then I would probably be using a benign low-cost substance rather than some equal or higher cost harmful substance, or that if I were cutting costs I would use less of the active substance along with a benign filler. Risk vs Probability: Decision.
 
Wagtail said:
Exactly. My livery used GG and her insurance paid for it. She then forked out a further £2k on GG out of her own pocket when her insurance ran out. The horse had been damaged in the past by another yard starving her and no amount of forage and supplements stopped the ulcers from returning. The horse needs to be permanently on omeprazole to stay healthy, but the owner was unable to keep funding the GG. In the end it was PTS or order from Abler. She chose the latter and six years along the line the horse is still healthy and happy. Those condemning people for ordering from Abler would presumably have shot their horse in the equivalent circumstances.
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Im not condemning anybody ,just pointing out the strict legalities and risk. How can you be sure you are giving what you think you are? Its very easy for people to be fooled by the way its sold into thinking there is no down side!

Of course they can sell it cheaper they dont have to test or licence like others do . The FDA gave Abler the chance to fast track it through the regulation process and they declined to do so. Why?
 
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popsdosh said:
Im not condemning anybody ,just pointing out the strict legalities and risk. How can you be sure you are giving what you think you are? Its very easy for people to be fooled by the way its sold into thinking there is no down side!

Of course they can sell it cheaper they dont have to test or licence like others do . The FDA gave Abler the chance to fast track it through the regulation process and they declined to do so. Why?
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Cost?

I run a livery yard. Every year the BHS write to me to offer me the chance to become registered with them. I always decline. Why? Because I don't see the point when my yard is a far higher standard than most BHS yards, I am full, and I charge the money I want to charge. Why pay a regulatory body to come and inspect when IMO it means nothing. You see some terrible BHS registered yards. I guess Abler know their product works, they make the money they want to make, and paying some authority to fast track them through their regulation process would benefit no one. In fact they would have to charge more to cover the costs. That's my take on it in any case.
 
popsdosh said:
Im not condemning anybody ,just pointing out the strict legalities and risk. How can you be sure you are giving what you think you are? Its very easy for people to be fooled by the way its sold into thinking there is no down side!

Of course they can sell it cheaper they dont have to test or licence like others do . The FDA gave Abler the chance to fast track it through the regulation process and they declined to do so. Why?
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Still waiting for your answer to where you are getting your information about the FDA and Abler from Popsdosh. I'd like to check it out.
 
Wagtail said:
Cost?

.
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Yes we know its mostly cost! Depends whether you morally accept that as OK or not when taking from others who have jumped through the hoops and are selling legit products, It still comes down to whether you actually trust a product that is produced unregulated at all. Would you risk taking it yourself?

Lets put it another way if you could only continue running a livery yard if you were registered so you did what would be your attitude to another yard that didnt register undercutting you?
 
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popsdosh said:
Yes we know its mostly cost! Depends whether you morally accept that as OK or not when taking from others who have jumped through the hoops and are selling legit products, It still comes down to whether you actually trust a product that is produced unregulated at all. Would you risk taking it yourself?

Lets put it another way if you could only continue running a livery yard if you were registered so you did what would be your attitude to another yard that didnt register undercutting you?
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have to jumping here and say cost is a big factor for me!

i live on an island where every thing! i mean EVERY THING! is brought in my air or ship which adds ALOT! to the price of items, eg bale of savings is £14 at present unless you by a pallet and even then it doesn't go down much!

so to buy gastro guard or ulcer gold at about £800 a round can really add up, my boy was treated with ulcer gold and did go clear but after having SI damage and having to be on restrict grazing for this, and then having fields that looks like lakes its hard to prevent ulcers, i am simply looking for a way to make my horse comfortable as i feel it is my duty as a horse owner to make him comfortable, however i just dont have £800 a month to put in plus i am lead to believe gastro guard and ulcer gold are not advised to be feed long term, where as abler say there product is.

i love my horse, he was at my wedding (see photos in club house) I would do pretty much any thing more him, many a user on here such as Datamation who know me personally know that but i simply cant pull money form the floor, so if many a horse owner like myself look for a way that is affordable to make there horses comfortable, maybe the problem lies with the greed for profile in the other companies?
 
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Shavings said:
have to jumping here and say cost is a big factor for me!

i live on an island where every thing! i mean EVERY THING! is brought in my air or ship which adds ALOT! to the price of items, eg bale of savings is £14 at present unless you by a pallet and even then it doesn't go down much!

so to buy gastro guard or ulcer gold at about £800 a round can really add up, my boy was treated with ulcer gold and did go clear but after having SI damage and having to be went on restrict grazing for this, and then having fields that looks like lakes its hard to prevent ulcers, i am simply looking for a way to make my horse comfortable as i feel it is my duty as a horse owner to make him comfortable, however i just dont have £800 a month to put in plus i am lead to believe gastro guard and ulcer gold are not advised to be read long term, where as abler say there product is.

i love my horse, he was at my wedding (see photos in club house) he would do pretty much any thing more him, many a user on here such as Datamation who know me personally know that but i simply cant pull money form the floor, so if many a horse owner like myself look for a way that is affordable to make there horses comfortable, maybe the problem lies with the greed for profile in the other companies?
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I do have to sympathise . Just one point how come its ok to feed Ablers products all the time However the licenced products you are warned not too its all omeprazole. Which one do you trust the regulated product or the one where you have no comeback if things go wrong they could tell you anything lol.
 
popsdosh said:
I do have to sympathise . Just one point how come its ok to feed Ablers products all the time However the licenced products you are warned not too its all omeprazole. Which one do you trust the regulated product or the one where you have no comeback if things go wrong they could tell you anything lol.
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i haven't feed abler at all as of yet hence by i started this thread, i know how a fact that ulcer gold has large warning saying do not feed long time, and i am currently looking in to abler and what difference there is and why it would be ok to feed long term and others not, so i cant answer your questions
 
Shavings said:
i haven't feed abler at all as of yet hence by i started this thread, i know how a fact that ulcer gold has large warning saying do not feed long time, and i am currently looking in to abler and what difference there is and why it would be ok to feed long term and others not, so i cant answer your questions
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Omeprazole generally is never sanctioned for long term use as it has been implicated in several conditions mainly around nutrition and absorption of certain nutrients ie mins and vits and an increased risk of brittle bone. If you think about it its logical as it stops the secretion of stomach acid which of course is useful in the digestive process.
 
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