Abscesses in both front feet - coincidence?

[Burnttoast]

Would you be suspicious of underlying issues in this situation? If so, what?

Situation is: out-of-work horse, significantly overweight, no shoes on initially, on *very* good grass made better by recent weather. Both abscesses took a long time to come out, one 10 days before the other, causing tendon problems in first weight-bearing leg. Both came out at coronary band (tho horse now has imprint shoes on, so they may have had no choice!).

Any ideas? Or just coincidence? Thanks in advance!

 

[cptrayes]

If they came out at the toe on the coronet, then everything points to this being a laminitic response by a fat horse on too rich a diet. The laminae in a strip down the front of the hoof die and slough away, and that's your abscess. If they aren't at the toe I would still suspect laminitis in a fat horse on rich grazing. I'm surprised your farrier didn't suggest this himself, but if he didn't suspect it I wouldn't have thought he would have shod at all, never mind with imprints.

Why did he say the horse needed shoes?

I hope you have the horse off the grass now?

 

[Burnttoast]

Thanks v much for reply. TBH this is what I suspected but I have little experience of laminitis and it's rather a complicated/delicate situation. The horse belongs to friends who I've been helping out for several years, over which time I've watched their fetish with the condition of their grass take precedence over the weight/condition of their horses to the point where I fear what I'll find when I go to the yard. I didn't want to say "your horse may have LGL" without some form of backup, and I am unsure now what more I can say to encourage them to cut down the amounts of grass all their (overweight) horses get, and feel particularly nervous as they are looking after a pony for a local girl while she's at uni and the pony has gained a lot of weight since they took her on. It's all kind of coming to a head now, and I think today I'm going to simply have to say what I feel and hope it makes a difference, but I suspect it won't. They simply don't seem to see the problem.

The answer to your first question is yes, that's just where they came out.

 

[amandap]

Any help? There's the WHW condition scoring video too...
http://www.safergrass.org/
http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/information/right_weight_advice

 

[Burnttoast]

Any help? There's the WHW condition scoring video too...
http://www.safergrass.org/
http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/information/right_weight_advice

Thanks - the safergrass link is interesting, I haven't seen it before. The PDF on there titled "If you insist" is just what I want to say to them! I've condition scored the horses myself but my view differs from the owners' - eg I want to be able to feel the ribs without having to dig! They are not yet morbidly obese tho one is well on the way and it doesn't really matter anyway - overweight is overweight and grass is grass...

How do you persuade someone who simply has too much grass - 7.5 acres for 3 horses and a pony, one retired, others in light work, all grass in excellent condition and lots of it, and more acreage rented over the winter(!?) - that it is not the job of the horses to manage it for them?

 

[amandap]

Frustratingly and sadly for the horses they may not change their views until there is a major problem aka acute laminits.
I'm racking my brains for concise hard hitting info for you.
http://www.icelandichorses.co.uk/Dieting an obese horse.htm No doubt artcles like this will be brushed off as not relevant.

 

[MissMincePie&Brandy]

How do you persuade someone who simply has too much grass - 7.5 acres for 3 horses and a pony, one retired, others in light work, all grass in excellent condition and lots of it, and more acreage rented over the winter(!?) - that it is not the job of the horses to manage it for them?

If I had more grazing than I needed, I would section off what I didn't need, and consider making hay for next season. You could get some quotes from local farmers, and if it looks doable, and you've got enough room to store it, it could be worth trying?

 

[Burnttoast]

Frustratingly and sadly for the horses they may not change their views until there is a major problem aka acute laminits.
I'm racking my brains for concise hard hitting info for you.
http://www.icelandichorses.co.uk/Dieting an obese horse.htm No doubt artcles like this will be brushed off as not relevant.

Goodness, that's really nice to see the difference in that pony! I agree that a shock may be the only thing that will change their views but I feel so sad for the horses, particularly another of theirs who I shared, who is a real character and doesn't deserve a crippling illness. He has been footy for a few days after his last two shoeings and I know their farrier doesn't take too much off (I don't think they've mentioned the footiness to him) - I think it may be stressed feet reacting to having the nails banged in etc. He's also developed lumpy fatty tissue over his quarters which I think may be indicative of cushings/metabolic change. God, it's so upsetting just watching with no say in what happens, it's like a slow motion car crash. Thanks for taking the time to put these links up.

 

[Burnttoast]

If I had more grazing than I needed, I would section off what I didn't need, and consider making hay for next season. You could get some quotes from local farmers, and if it looks doable, and you've got enough room to store it, it could be worth trying?

That is what I would do, if it were my land. There is a very good local contractor available too. I have suggested this, but it's fallen on deaf ears, unfortunately. I'll shout louder next time

 

[amandap]

Yes, making hay is a great idea. You could advise them that Paddock Paradise is the latest trend in keeping horses! lol
http://www.right2remainshoeless.com/html/paddock_paradise.html Also google PP and you'll get some videos of how people have done this on their own land.

 

[Burnttoast]

I'm surprised your farrier didn't suggest this himself, but if he didn't suspect it I wouldn't have thought he would have shod at all, never mind with imprints.

Why did he say the horse needed shoes?

I hope you have the horse off the grass now?

And just to add... At first he was treated for lami (hence imprints) tho only lame on one leg. When the first abscess came out everyone seemed to assume that this was the problem, and his tendon on the weightbearing leg was so bad at this point that it became the priority. The second abscess has only just come out, which rang alarm bells for me but not apparently elsewhere - it had been tubbed but I don't think a professional has been back to follow it up.

The horse is back on short turn-out, with a view to managing the tendon (he'll never be ridden again in any case so field-soundness is the aim here). I will get in touch with them now and try to put some of this stuff across. Thanks, guys.

 

[cptrayes]

That horse is one of the ones, and I have one too, who can have the strip of laminae down the front of the hoof die without any lameness first. So the first you know is the abscess and then they are crippled. People were so busy looking at the crippled lameness on the first foot that blew that they probably didn't realise that the other foot was unsound too, just not as badly. If that horse is not kept off grass for October, and then kept off frosted grass in winter, they are likely to get an acute episode with pedal bone rotation. He is primed for it now and they seem to get it more easily once they've had it. Maybe they will listen when his feet fall off? In the meantime, it's only a matter of time before one of the others goes down with it too, from what you describe. Poor horses! Good luck with your attempt at education!!

 

[Burnttoast]

That horse is one of the ones, and I have one too, who can have the strip of laminae down the front of the hoof die without any lameness first. So the first you know is the abscess and then they are crippled. People were so busy looking at the crippled lameness on the first foot that blew that they probably didn't realise that the other foot was unsound too, just not as badly. If that horse is not kept off grass for October, and then kept off frosted grass in winter, they are likely to get an acute episode with pedal bone rotation. He is primed for it now and they seem to get it more easily once they've had it. Maybe they will listen when his feet fall off? In the meantime, it's only a matter of time before one of the others goes down with it too, from what you describe. Poor horses! Good luck with your attempt at education!!

Thank you. I've organised all my thoughts on paper and sent my more receptive friend an email - I'm borderline asperger's (but at least my feet aren't falling off) and cannot talk my way through these situations, which is really frustrating - I just end up getting very upset and can't talk, basically. Hopefully we can have a constructive conversation about it now that I've got all my worries over to them.

I'm a bit of a lurker on here really but it's been so good to be able to ask advice - thanks again guys. *now keeps fingers Xd*

 

[Burnttoast]

I've had a positive response from my friend - we are getting together on Friday to form a plan, as sadly it's not her grass either! But progress is being made. Thanks to those who responded for giving me the conviction that I must do something!