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Loulou23

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Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this group as I keep getting emails from them regards enrolling on their trainers course. Whilst I like using games in my dog training as anything that engages your dog more with you and builds a better bond will obviously help with the obvious training issues, ie a dog that finds you really exciting is far more likely to come when called than one who thinks you are boring, but I just wonder if it lacks some balance, also the dogs always seem hyper alert in the videos and I want my dog to be more relaxed and chilled, not just waiting to be released???
 
I think the methods are good... I do wonder about the hyper alert thing a bit but my dogs are very much there already with that. I think if you apply the boundary training with care you might get more calmness. I'd look into other training for calm methods alongside I think. In some ways I think just teaching a down stay might work better. My dogs get so hyped for treats it just seemed not to go in somehow. Having said that the Sprollie was then the only dog at agility class who could be trusted to lie on a mat and wait his turn patiently....

However I can't watch the videos as I fibd the enthusiasm of the people waaaaaay too irritating! ? I only know about the methods because I've been along to a few training classes that use them.

I'm not very good at homework but I do think my spaniels recall got sharper just from a half hearted effort at a few games...
 
I've done a few of their courses, the sexy squirrel one, 21 days to offlead freedom, the border collie and working my way through boundary games.

I do find their enthusiasm also rather annoying and the groups also kinda hail them as messiahs.

Some of the stuff is (to me) common sense. I was already using their DMT game as a way of directing Miss Collie's herding/chase drive and I was aware of over arousal in her but at the same time I've also picked bits out that have been useful, and lightbulb moments on dealing with the overarousal of which I had no idea how to handle her during.

The boundary games as I mentioned deal with growing calm and they also do a specific course on just that, but I've not done it to talk about it in more detail.

They do market themselves very cleverly and I think gear themselves to people who (nicely and including myself in this) dont have a clue about what they have picked up.
 
This is an aside and not any comment on the company mentioned by the OP, I don't know anything about them so can't comment, it's more a comment on commercial dog training generally.

Generally, do these commercial dog trainers compete/train people who compete, have any certificates/results which people can look at, or have they trained dogs for service roles, etc?
I know competitions aren't everything but it's good proof of training.
I know that there are people who dabble in various disciplines and make nice videos in their own gardens/somewhere their own dogs are familiar with, but haven't actually proofed their dogs in a competition.

I'd personally want to be trained by someone who has done more than me, studying behaviour is nice, but I'd rather someone with practical experience with multiple (not 'easy' dogs) and a lot of commercial trainers seem to have done one of the plethora of online 'become a dog trainer/monetise your hobby' courses.

Bah humbug, there's nothing new under the sun, etc etc ;)
 
To be fair to absolutedogs the woman has competed internationally and won at crufts in agility this year and the Male presenter is a vet with a accompanying degree in animal behaviour.

But I do agree with you. I've had my fingers burned with a behaviourist reccomended by a friend that I got in for Miss Collie who cost me 200 quid, told me there was nothing he could suggest that I wasnt already doing and no one would blame me if I grew tired of dealing with her and put her to sleep!
 
It was interesting attending the training class and then seeing the trainer's own dogs... I suspect, as I say, the methods are sound. But I think the application needs to be measured, not rushed. And I think the "happy enthusiasm" breeds a tendency to rush which was evident in the trainers own dogs.

Also, and depending on the audience this is either good or bad, there is no delving into learning theory at all. It's just play this game like this. Which is fine, especially for fun pet dog training. But I'm not sure there's as many tools provided in the tool kit as needed to be truely adaptable. But as an additional tool in your own tool kit I think there's value in it.

The absolute dogs people seem to do pretty well at agility. At least one of the mad fast spaniels at crufts was one of them I believe.
 
Worth mentioning that the people who attended the classes AND did their homework and had generally ok training "chops" were having a lit of success creating easy to live with pet dogs. Some out of some genetically less easy creatures too.
 
Karran said:
I've done a few of their courses, the sexy squirrel one, 21 days to offlead freedom, the border collie and working my way through boundary games.

I do find their enthusiasm also rather annoying and the groups also kinda hail them as messiahs.

Some of the stuff is (to me) common sense. I was already using their DMT game as a way of directing Miss Collie's herding/chase drive and I was aware of over arousal in her but at the same time I've also picked bits out that have been useful, and lightbulb moments on dealing with the overarousal of which I had no idea how to handle her during.

The boundary games as I mentioned deal with growing calm and they also do a specific course on just that, but I've not done it to talk about it in more detail.

They do market themselves very cleverly and I think gear themselves to people who (nicely and including myself in this) dont have a clue about what they have picked up.
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It's that annoying enthusiasm and Messiah following that seems to put me off, I've not seen enough of their stuff as only watched the free vids on Facebook but it always seemed to be similar hyped up dogs that were already pretty focussed, for example I've never seen them work with a husky on recall and when anyone has pointed this out on a thread they seem to get jumped on straight away.
 
PapaverFollis said:
. And I think the "happy enthusiasm" breeds a tendency to rush which was evident in the trainers own dogs.
Click to expand...

Most people competing at high level need a dog that looks happy/open/under no pressure/sharp as a tack buuuuut is under strict control.

That's a very fine balance and very few top trainers will let you in on their secrets ;)
Another aspect is that commercial dog trainers can't afford to have a bad day at the office, it isn't good for business.
 
I meant the happy enthusiasm of the trainers not the dogs... so they're so hyped up they aren't encouraging thoughtful training and building foundations enough if that makes sense? I felt I needed to spend at least twice as long at each stage than I was being encouraged to. There was a push to "test" the training with the next level of the game before I felt the current level was secure...
 
Tbf I've not seen them with a husky in the videos I've watched but not to say they dont. I've mostly seen the collies/spaniels they breed and the occasional JRT, and mini dachshund.
I hope I dont sound like one of their rabid fans but I've seen training diary posts from people following the courses with akita/podenco/pit bull/dalmatian (off top of my head) and videos from those owners over the course of lockdown and seen those dogs improve (I remember these owners as they were honest enough to post good and bad!). Certainly Miss Collie has become more focussed on me and I've used their courses to help with loose lead walking and instant down

The free videos are just that. The border collie course I just did, featured a lot of theoretical work about how their brains are wired up through evolution and why certain games were better for them in terms of rewiring their brain from distraction from movement for example.

On the other hand I watched a live presentation on chase and got absolutely nothing from it.
 
PapaverFollis said:
I meant the happy enthusiasm of the trainers not the dogs... so they're so hyped up they aren't encouraging thoughtful training and building foundations enough if that makes sense? I felt I needed to spend at least twice as long at each stage than I was being encouraged to. There was a push to "test" the training with the next level of the game before I felt the current level was secure...
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Ah ok lol. Well, it is good to be a wally and be interesting/engaging to your dog ?
It does make sense.

Re rushing, there is a theme amongst the public of 'how long do I train Monday before it becomes Tuesday' and those that think there's a certain time frame/number of repetitions where every single dog and handler will magically be imbued with something before they can move on to the next thing, when in reality it all depends on the capabilities and genetics of the dog and talent of the handler.
In the modern world, everyone wants results fast.
But I suppose then you see police dogs go from 0-the streets in months when some of us limp along for years, go figure ?
 
I have been using elements with Dobby and it certainly has had an effect on his recall and our bond BUT would be more effective if I did more homework and 'lived' the games but with three and a full time job I don't feel like it's enough benefit to commit to. I pick and choose the games for him as I know some would send him loopy.

I'm starting to explore the boundary games and will be looking at the optimism building games for Ginny as she is still nervous at times.

Their enthusiasm does annoy me but I get enough benefit to put up with it.
 
Lauren is very good and markets herself and her training very well. Not my favourite person but can't fault her training. I had a lesson with her back in 2005 well before she set up her business and it was excellent, still use what she taught me that day. The hyper excitement does wind me up a bit, wouldn't suit my young one though probably would the older one.
 
Thanks, that sounds pretty positive and will look into it more when I'm in a better place financially, just trying to look forward and plan things for the future to stay positive after the breakup ?
 
I was meant to be doing a problem solving workshop with him for sporting dogs with him. I've yet to hear if he's able to do things online but he wasnt before all this.
 
It's a pity, he's got a lot of knowledge to impart.
But knowing one of his mentors, who's forgotten more than most of us will ever know, and his feelings on virtual dog training, I can kind of understand ???
 
CorvusCorax said:
Sorry for dinging on about him, but Craig Ogilvie is someone I really rate and knows a lot about chanelling/switching drives and using play as an attraction through his work as a decoy, but I'm not sure if he's into the online stuff or not.
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I'm still on the look out for him doing something closer to me for Dobby.
 
Bit late to the party here as only just seen the thread. I took on a young rescue who was meant to be labrador/ goldie as I have flatcoats and am a retriever person! She is not, she has a large dose of collie , such a mixture of intelligence and quick to learn, countered by doing her own thinking and running off faster as I call or whistle.
Had dogs all my life and done loads of competitive obedience and plenty of gundog work.
Absolute dogs was all over facebook at the time and I got lured into buying a dvd. Jolly expensive and inundated with requests to join online training.
I HATED the training, it was so over the top and excitable. I don’t take my dogs for walks leaping about and chasing around. Yuck, not my scene at all, I can see the advantage for agility or flyball. I like a calm dog.
Anyway, I pursued my own training and my collie has gradually learnt how to behave.
 
Interesting Chiffy and you've reminded me of my very first agility trainer, her classes were purely low-key pet agility despite having previously competed to a decent level at KC. She gave it up because it was an unhealthy environment for one of her very drivey collies, she was getting the results but the dog was so intensely hyped up the entire time as to be unpleasant to watch and be around. There's plenty that would go along with it and carry on with a completely strung out dog.

Not for me but I am also not generally an excitable leaping about sort. ? Absolutely no judgement intended regarding the trainers here though, Lauren's agility record speaks for itself.
 
Agility/flyball queues...cortisol central ?

There's a guy in my sport who people hate being drawn with, as he winds his dogs up to high heaven in the holding area chucking balls everywhere and sets off everyone else's too.
 
It was interesting taking Sprollie to the local agility comp. He was a bit older than most of the other dogs I'd say and faaaaar less wound up even though he can be a drivey nightmare at times. He was one of the only dogs that didn't have to be put back in the car at all.

But the two classes where I didn't mess up and cause him to fault we won. He was very fast and focussed. No need for him to be wound up to fever pitch at all. In fact the first class where he was a bit more wound up was his worst run.

My next pup is going to spend at least 2, possibly 3, years learning how to be a calm and focussed dog before they ever see the inside of an agility ring. I don't think it is good for them to get right hyped up all the time.

I do think the DMT stuff absolute dogs promote is very useful but I got similar info elsewhere too.

I have, saved on my kindle and yet to be read, "how to be your dog's superhero"... has anyone read it? Might have a delve into it.
 
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