Absolute Dogs puppy farm allegations

Can anyone tell me who their vet practice is? I want to make sure it’s not mine.
At least in Red’s case (my ex puppy farm bitch) the vet practice had banned the man involved as they were dubious about his breeding practices. I understand this vet is supportive on line. 😟
 
Clodagh said:
Can anyone tell me who their vet practice is? I want to make sure it’s not mine.
At least in Red’s case (my ex puppy farm bitch) the vet practice had banned the man involved as they were dubious about his breeding practices. I understand this vet is supportive on line. 😟
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A vet is involved in some of the businesses so expect that is who they use . He is an online behaviourist , Behavet.
 
I find this so sad. I first met Lauren back in 2005 before she set up as a full time trainer. She was a teacher then and doing training as a side line and very good she was too. My friend used to train with her and booked a lesson for me when I was staying with her. She was debating then about going full time but wasn't sure if it would spoil her enjoyment of the sport if she was doing it for a living. Saw her at a few shows after that and always got on well with her but then she set up in business, met her partner and it all changed. Vey sad the way things have gone. Just greed I guess. These days I do my best to avoid her, not that I go to any shows where she would be any more.
 
I have literally just started listening to a few of their podcast episodes after puppy arrived and then saw all this kicking off on FB. Certainly proof that you never know what goes on behind the scenes!

Tom who also hosts the podcast is a vet, I wonder how much involvement there was there? He must have known...
 
Jenko109 said:
It's not publicised enough.

I only discovered this by reading here. I follow quite a few UK based dog groups, including some agility groups. Yet I didnt see it until I actually looked for it.

Every dog owner should know about this. All of them.
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It has only been out in the open for a week, but talking to agility people at the weekend I was shocked how many weren’t at all surprised and had been hearing bad things for years.

Edited to say it was on fb Agilitynet as a massive thread but was taken down, and Susan Garrett has a thread too.
 
Love said:
I have literally just started listening to a few of their podcast episodes after puppy arrived and then saw all this kicking off on FB. Certainly proof that you never know what goes on behind the scenes!

Tom who also hosts the podcast is a vet, I wonder how much involvement there was there? He must have known...
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A fair bit of involvement, he is a co director of Absolute Dogs, and has himself bred and registered pups from bitches who have previously had litters under LLs affix.
 
Spotherisk said:
It has only been out in the open for a week, but talking to agility people at the weekend I was shocked how many weren’t at all surprised and had been hearing bad things for years.

Edited to say it was on fb Agilitynet as a massive thread but was taken down, and Susan Garrett has a thread too.
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Professional dog trainers are bound by a code of ethics which prevents them from saying anything negative about other dog trainers which is one of the reasons why this was not widely known outside the dog training / agility circles.
 
Morwenna said:
Professional dog trainers are bound by a code of ethics which prevents them from saying anything negative about other dog trainers which is one of the reasons why this was not widely known outside the dog training / agility circles.
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I wouldn’t expect a trainer to knock another but this is welfare and a whole different level.
 
When some people get money/fame/power/success, it can become addictive and they generally want more of it. And then ethics and welfare can go out the window.

I've known a few people who stepped onto the field less than a decade ago, went very far very fast, discarded all the people they met or who helped them on the way up and now charge people to be able to breathe the same air as them.
Whereas much more talented folks help other people for the love of it.

I have massive reservations about this whole 'train the trainer' business (in general, not specifically). Is it about helping people/dogs or is it a pyramid scheme?
 
Well absolute shame on every single person that had a fair idea this was going on and said nothing.
And total disgust at the KC. Is there no trigger point at which they query litter numbers? Bunch of money grubbing incompetents. I’m actually going to write to them asking their reasons behind no DNA testing and do they have any plans to bring it in, citing this case and Red’s.
 
Clodagh said:
Well absolute shame on every single person that had a fair idea this was going on and said nothing.
And total disgust at the KC. Is there no trigger point at which they query litter numbers? Bunch of money grubbing incompetents. I’m actually going to write to them asking their reasons behind no DNA testing and do they have any plans to bring it in, citing this case and Red’s.
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The more I read about this the worse it gets. I think they were very good at silencing things and so a lot of people has suspicions but the full extent is only becoming known now. The KC do have a lot to answer for. How anyone can register that many dogs without questions being asked is beyond me - and it seems the registered ones were just the tip of the iceberg.
 
And another thing (I’m working in the pub today, let’s hope there’s no stroppy customers, I’ll be right back at them 🤪). How can she still go out and compete?
Is there no point at which the show organisers can accuse her of bringing the sport into disrepute? I suppose everyone has supported her for years and this doesn’t change anything. How can people still be civil to her?
 
Clodagh said:
And another thing (I’m working in the pub today, let’s hope there’s no stroppy customers, I’ll be right back at them 🤪). How can she still go out and compete?
Is there no point at which the show organisers can accuse her of bringing the sport into disrepute? I suppose everyone has supported her for years and this doesn’t change anything. How can people still be civil to her?
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I know Spotherisk said she was at Paignton on Friday but I think it's gained much more traction over the weekend. Two champ shows coming up, ringside will be interesting. I feel for the people who have commented online saying that they bought their dogs in good faith but are now afraid there will be a stigma to running a dog with that affix.

As to people not saying anything... I think they did but anything posted online was blocked/untagged, there's been extremely tight PR and slick marketing, a dash of intimidation and threats of litigation (did I read she studied law?), and besides anything else they have genuinely been hugely successful in the sport, it'd be too easy to call any criticism sour grapes.

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Clodagh said:
Well absolute shame on every single person that had a fair idea this was going on and said nothing.
And total disgust at the KC. Is there no trigger point at which they query litter numbers? Bunch of money grubbing incompetents. I’m actually going to write to them asking their reasons behind no DNA testing and do they have any plans to bring it in, citing this case and Red’s.
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I think we should put you and @CorvusCorax in charge of the KC. Up the revolution! It needs a total overhaul.
 
In Lancashire heelers a well known breeder was found to have falsely registered a litter of pups from the wrong dam , as the actual dam had health issues . This was only found out when offspring developed a condition which according to their pedigree was impossible. After a lot of work by several people the breeder had a wrist slap , but is still breeding and judging . I would never get my hopes up about the KC doing anything
 
CorvusCorax said:
Would it depress you to learn that I've been lobbying for change on these islands since I was a teenager and my mother did it for years before me 🤣
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I know you have, it just thoroughly disappoints me that they have completely buried their heads in the sand. Money related, one presumes and they must think of themselves as a venerable old institution. So depressing. I remember reading on here about a cavvie (?) that has syringomyelia stud-Crufts champion-but is still producing litters and had produced over 50 at the time I read about it. This was known to the KC but they still registered his pups 😢

I think DNA testing should be introduced so we can be sure a dam only produces limited amounts of litters and that the pups really are hers, any health issues eg dogs with crappy hip/elbow scores can’t be used, low co-efficient, basics to assure the future of the breeds. It is screaming for thorough do over. People think they’re getting a healthy pup and the caché of the KC label is still somewhat elevated, with no good reason.
 
MurphysMinder said:
In Lancashire heelers a well known breeder was found to have falsely registered a litter of pups from the wrong dam , as the actual dam had health issues . This was only found out when offspring developed a condition which according to their pedigree was impossible. After a lot of work by several people the breeder had a wrist slap , but is still breeding and judging . I would never get my hopes up about the KC doing anything
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Sure look at the GSD one, was it a mother/son or a sister/brother mating (accidental) and the litter was attributed to/registered as being from a different stud dog, enabled by someone who really should have known better, and the progeny had been winning classes before the whole thing was blown open.
 
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Cinnamontoast said:
I know you have, it just thoroughly disappoints me that they have completely buried their heads in the sand. Money related, one presumes and they must think of themselves as a venerable old institution. So depressing. I remember reading on here about a cavvie (?) that has syringomyelia stud-Crufts champion-but is still producing litters and had produced over 50 at the time I read about it. This was known to the KC but they still registered his pups 😢

I think DNA testing should be introduced so we can be sure a dam only produces limited amounts of litters and that the pups really are hers, any health issues eg dogs with crappy hip/elbow scores can’t be used, low co-efficient, basics to assure the future of the breeds. It is screaming for thorough do over. People think they’re getting a healthy pup and the caché of the KC label is still somewhat elevated, with no good reason.
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Among other issues that are a farce with the Assured Breeders scheme , is the fact that while they ask for hip and elbow scoring in certain breeds there is no maximum score . So an Assured Breeder can have a litter from a dog with awful scores , as long as it’s scored !
 
Morwenna said:
The more I read about this the worse it gets. I think they were very good at silencing things and so a lot of people has suspicions but the full extent is only becoming known now. The KC do have a lot to answer for. How anyone can register that many dogs without questions being asked is beyond me - and it seems the registered ones were just the tip of the iceberg.
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As long as the breeder has a council licence, I don't suppose the KC will do much apart from take the money.
The KC do have restrictions about the number of litters a bitch can have, the top age at which she can breed, and more. There is nothing to stop a bitch having unregistered litters at any age, or maybe registering the pups on the KC Activity Register
 
Cinnamontoast said:
I think DNA testing should be introduced so we can be sure a dam only produces limited amounts of litters and that the pups really are hers, any health issues eg dogs with crappy hip/elbow scores can’t be used, low co-efficient, basics to assure the future of the breeds. It is screaming for thorough do over. People think they’re getting a healthy pup and the caché of the KC label is still somewhat elevated, with no good reason.
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So for example in Germany in my breed, when a litter is microchipped, puppies have a DNA sample taken (a little crimp of the ear and blood on a bit of blotting paper) and it's all tied together with registration/heritage with the main breed organisation and the registration document (which is an A4 booklet which includes five gen pedigree, ownership details, space for working and health test results and stays with the dog for life) is stamped 'DNA proven'. If you have dogs born outside Germany, the blood is taken and sent off with the x-rays when you do their hips and elbows when they are 12 months plus. So for example, my old dog, his father went through the German system and his mother did not, so he cannot be proven and his pedigree is stamped 'DNA taken, first time entry in the breed book'. Because he and her mother, who was born in Germany, are on the system, my young female is 'DNA proven', because I sent her DNA to Germany with the x-rays - so she is registered in the system and anyone with an account can look up her name, parentage, DNA status, health tests, show grade, microchip number and working results online. If a dog has poor health tests results, the words 'Breeding Ban' are shown and any puppies cannot be registered in Germany. If people are naughty, breed outside Germany and then submit health tests for the progeny, even if the results are good, you get a shitty letter and another breeding ban, because the dog should not exist.
The breed registry is recognised by the German Kennel Club, so the dog is kennel club registered by default.
I think it is a much better system and could be a real money-spinner if applied here, but then what do I know!!

ETA the breed registry is older than the German kennel club and invested money to help it set up......
 
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druid said:
It's not that uncommon to have other people whelp your dogs in some sports/circles. I whelp for several gundog trainers (only a litter or two a year total as none breed in volume!) who don't have the time/set up/inclination to raise a litter. I certainly don't do it for free though!
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These pups were post whelping and post weaning even, and wasn't the whole litter either, I think the litter was usually split between several 'helpers' before being shipped out country.
 
Also, in Germany, if you breed too many litters (some people do try to get around it with different prefixes registered to separate addresses/family members etc), the taxman will come after you and I've known of people who have lost their houses ;) its why some European trainers now live in the USA, ho hum!!!
 
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