Acceptable arena use?

[TGM]

Personally I must say I do use my new, expensive arena for short sessions of turnout - if they roll or hoon about then it justs needs raking or harrowing to return to it's normal pristine state. I must say I would worry about riding on any surface that could be ruined permanently by rolling or galloping horses. However, turnout is only for short periods of time and they are ALWAYS fully supervised so that no digging or fence-chewing occurs. Even though ours do go out in the fields, it is nice for them to have a roll in the arena without rugs on a mild winters day without them getting plastered in mud! Arena contractor specifically told us that turnout on the arena is not a problem, as long as hay is not fed in there as it can spoil the drainage.

However, it is your yard, your arena and you can set the rules. One option is to put a blanket ban on loose horses in the arena at any time. The other is to allow the arena to be used for this purpose, but set some conditions. For example:

* Horses must be supervised at all time in the arena to ensure no digging or fence-chewing occurs
* Maximum turnout time of 15 minutes, 30 minutes etc.
* Arena must be raked or harrowed by livery after use

 

[pip6]

You paid for it your rules. Don't assume she knows how much it cost or how that she is compromising it. Have a cuppa with her and explain why you want it for riding only, rather than just put a notice up. If she is a nice person, kind of livery you want, she will understand. If you have space offer her a small area where she can put sand down for a play pit. If she pays for it, or at least contributes, she'll appreciate and respect it.

 

[alainax]

Personally I must say I do use my new, expensive arena for short sessions of turnout - if they roll or hoon about then it justs needs raking or harrowing to return to it's normal pristine state. I must say I would worry about riding on any surface that could be ruined permanently by rolling or galloping horses. However, turnout is only for short periods of time and they are ALWAYS fully supervised so that no digging or fence-chewing occurs. Even though ours do go out in the fields, it is nice for them to have a roll in the arena without rugs on a mild winters day without them getting plastered in mud! Arena contractor specifically told us that turnout on the arena is not a problem, as long as hay is not fed in there as it can spoil the drainage.

However, it is your yard, your arena and you can set the rules. One option is to put a blanket ban on loose horses in the arena at any time. The other is to allow the arena to be used for this purpose, but set some conditions. For example:

* Horses must be supervised at all time in the arena to ensure no digging or fence-chewing occurs
* Maximum turnout time of 15 minutes, 30 minutes etc.
* Arena must be raked or harrowed by livery after use

This makes a lot of sense.
Someone trotting round the outside track for an hour every day is going to create more of a nuisance digging out gulleys than a horse having a quick roll!

I agree with no turn out, as this would be generally un-supervised, and takes up the arena when someone else could be using it. However a bit of free schooling, or having a wee roll while being watched certainly isn't disrespectful in my eyes! I also agree with the digging, as if they dig deep enough could cause damage. However a few paws to the ground before going down isn't going to cause any more damage than landing over a jump would.

In saying that, it is your yard your rules. So don't feel disrespected, but certainly feel free to make the rules.

 

[Flora]

Can totally understand where your coming from! I dont allow horses turned out loose in my school either. It cost a lot of money for the surface which will take years of liverys paying for the use of the school to claw back the cost. The liveries will be the first ones to complain about the state of the surface once it gets ruined and if they are not happy they will move yards and owner is left with a knackered surface!
Going by the previous posts, a lot of owners seem to agree whereas the liveries dont seem to think its a problem, but then they are not the ones that have parted with hard earned cash!
Rant over!

 

[PolarSkye]

Someone trotting round the outside track for an hour every day is going to create more of a nuisance digging out gulleys than a horse having a quick roll!

But who does this? Do you a) school for an hour; or b) only use the track? I can guarantee that that way lies a bored/school sour horse.

I agree with no turn out, as this would be generally un-supervised, and takes up the arena when someone else could be using it. However a bit of free schooling, or having a wee roll while being watched certainly isn't disrespectful in my eyes! I also agree with the digging, as if they dig deep enough could cause damage. However a few paws to the ground before going down isn't going to cause any more damage than landing over a jump would.

But what's your definition of free schooling? My boy would take full advantage of being "free" and buck, spin, rear and generally prat about churning up the surface - and I don't for one second believe he's unique. As to "a few paws" how do you tell a horse that it must only gently paw the surface rather than have a good dig? Arena surfaces are much softer than your average field - I don't think most horses are clever enough to make the link and reduce/temper their pawing/digging accordingly before rolling.

Fields are for turnout. Arenas are for riding and schooling.

P

P.S. I am not a yard owner - never have been - I am a livery . . .

 

[Tiddlypom]

I wouldn't allow anyone to turn their horse out on my arena for a 'jolly'. I didn't spend a ruck load of money for a rolling pit/playpen, it's a surface for working on.

I've known of several arenas where lunging isn't allowed, never mine turnout (though that is being TOO precious, in my book).

Restricted and closely supervised turnout on an arena for veterinary reasons (eg post lami) is another thing, though, and if you have liveries, that should be open to discussion.

 

[Caol Ila]

I'll school for an hour, easily, but obviously with lots of movements, circles, serpentines, diagonals.

Anyway, in places where it's the norm for people to let their horse roll in the school, you often up with sections of deeper sand pits. A lot of people aren't that bothered. Dom has said the livery in question doesn't even ride in the arena, so it definitely isn't going to bother her. But if you care about your surface, it's not what you want, and it's more of an issue than a packed down track, especially for someone like PolarSkye, who has been trying to rehab her horse from tendon injuries.

 

[OWLIE185]

I know how expensive it is to install and maintain an arena.
It should only be used for it's intended purpose and not for turn out.
Tell her she can't use it for turn out - end of.

 

[BeingKate]

Wow you can lunge - free school- turnout- jump what ever in our schools. Would never have those restriction here even jump in the round pen and turnout in it.

Surely if you have a young horse not in side reins yet its a bit harsh?

I imagine then you have got a fairly old or fairly cheap surface. if you have a decent surface then if the horse digs it, it can really be disrupted. No matter how much it's trodden down you will always have a bit of a dent, certainly for a while, and if the horse digs to the membrane (which you should have if arena is installed correctly) then that is surface generally screwed.

I think the OP is quite right to be miffed, as the owner should really double check, but definitely it would be good to get some ground rules in place - maybe get everyone together so the owner doesn't feel "victimised" you know how sensitive us horsey ladies can be

 

[alainax]

But who does this? Do you a) school for an hour; or b) only use the track? I can guarantee that that way lies a bored/school sour horse.

a- yes, from 30 mins to 90 mins depending on what we are up to. b - personally, never - usually avoiding it! However, look at many arenas and you will be sure to find the "gully".

But what's your definition of free schooling? My boy would take full advantage of being "free" and buck, spin, rear and generally prat about churning up the surface - and I don't for one second believe he's unique.

As I am sure you are well aware, each horse is very different. Some may indeed go for a good canter and buck ( as do many with a rider on board!). When I free school my boy he trots along side me. Stops, reverses, turns on haunches, turns on forehand etc, just as we would when ridden.

Essentially are you saying that anyone who doesn't ride is there for barred from the arena - but should of course pay exactly what everyone else pays?

As I said, I completely agree with no turn out, like mentioned that's what fields or turnout areas are for. However there is a lot of good training which can be done with a horse from the ground.

As a business woman I can completely understand the despair of having something which you have shelled out money for ruined, however as mentioned by above posters, an arena should be able to stand a horse without a rider, if it can one with. Bad behaviour on the other hand ( fence chewers, diggers etc), should be stopped immediately and if not able to get it under control then free schooling access removed. An investment should contribute to the overall experience of your customers. Many choose yards specifically as they have x y & z facilities. Over bearing rules on such a thing could certainly stop the wear and tear, but lose customers. As would closing the arena completely. However, its the OP's yard, and her rules, its her balance to find.

As to "a few paws" how do you tell a horse that it must only gently paw the surface rather than have a good dig? Arena surfaces are much softer than your average field - I don't think most horses are clever enough to make the link and reduce/temper their pawing/digging accordingly before rolling.

Never the horse, always the handler. The horse of course doenst mind which surface he is on, it is surely just common sense that the handler would know when the beginning pawing is about to change to digging! Considering they would be right beside the horse!

My boy paws when bored - with a rider on his back. So I am guessing he would be out right banned from the arena too? He gets a "NO!" from me, and stops it. He makes more of mark in the sand when doing a bit of spanish walk, and certainly no where near the same depth of hole as those jumping 1m+ ( we don't jump). So should those who jump be banned too?

Then it all gets a bit ridiculous.

For this, it should just be being sensible.

No Turnout
No Destructive behaviour.
All horses must be supervised.
No loose horses when arena in use.

Fields are for turnout. Arenas are for riding and schooling.

Indeed, 100% agree. You can also school very successfully from the ground. To say that "YOU MAY NOT ENTER THE ARENA UNLESS YOU ARE ON A HORSES BACK" would be something which would deter me from a yard.

I went to view one which insisted that poop is picked up immediately while schooling, and not left till the end. I can completely appreciate why, they didn't want it trodden in. However, this rule ( along with many others they had) would have made the entire experience like walking on egg shells worried about which rule you would break next.

But again, as I mentioned, its the OP's arena, she can choose to have which ever rules she pleases. In answer to her original question, I do not think every horse should have a rider on its back at all times in the arena, and I do not think her livery was being disrespectful to her.

 

[Pinkvboots]

There is full winter turnout. Her animals are out 7am to 5 pm every day.

part of the problem is we are making up the rules as we progress. this is my home/farm and we never intended to take liveries. all facilities have been put in for my use and now some liveries seem the next progression. they have crept on with out a proper plan. its worked ok but now i have 3 liveries and need to lay down some rules. cause common sense isnt always used and they do need to know whats acceptable.

entirely my own fault for not doing this to start.

I would say no more turning out in the school then you are providing good turnout so no real reason for using the school.

 

[Caol Ila]

You guys are digressing. The problem is not free-schooling or in-hand work. The OP said the horse and donkey in question are turned out with the express purpose of having a roll and a play, and they dig big holes; that's why he thinks it's an issue.

 

[Pippity]

I've been on one yard that allowed horses to be turned out occasionally in the school, but a) only for an hour or so when the fields were closed for winter, and b) because the surface was already trashed.

Every yard I've been on with a good quality surface has banned even loose schooling, never mind turnout.

I don't think your livery is being particularly rude in turning out for a post-hack roll, BUT I don't think it would be remotely unreasonable for you to implement a 'no turning out in the school' rule going forward, especially as you have winter turnout available.

 

[southerncomfort]

If things have been done on a rather ad hoc basis up until now, this might be a good opportunity to get a proper contract drawn up including rules for use of the school so that everyone knows where they stand.

 

[Nightmare before Christmas]

I occasionally let my own horse lose in my own school because he jumps out my own field. Notice the my, it's my yard I use it how I want. I hate coming down and finding other horses galloping round a fresh rolled school :O

 

[Double_choc_lab]

Problem with a livery yard is once one does it all the others want to follow. Do you really want numerous horses all hooning around (albeit separately or in small numbers) digging holes. What about the person who wants to school and whose horse finds the hole? Agreed if its your own arena fine but on a livery yard no - factor in time to lunge, school or walk in hand.

 

[Firefly9410]

There is full winter turnout. Her animals are out 7am to 5 pm every day.

part of the problem is we are making up the rules as we progress. this is my home/farm and we never intended to take liveries. all facilities have been put in for my use and now some liveries seem the next progression. they have crept on with out a proper plan. its worked ok but now i have 3 liveries and need to lay down some rules. cause common sense isnt always used and they do need to know whats acceptable.

entirely my own fault for not doing this to start.

Speaking from the perspective of a livery client, you would be my worst nightmare. When I view a yard I ask about anything and everything I can think of that concerns how I keep my horse, to ensure the yard will suit us. Part of that is I specifically ask what the rules are in case there is anything in there which I have not thought of but which affects me. YOs who change the rules or being in new ones as it suits them are hell. I hate having to look for a new yard when I have only been somewhere for example 3-6mths because rules have changed and the yard no longer suits me or my horse. Please sit down with family or whoever lives there or works there with you, decide once and for all what you do and do not want happening in the yard, write up a list of rules and hand it out to current and prospective liveries then everyone knows where they stand. If you then want to introduce a new rule in future it would be polite to give your liveries a months notice of it so they have a chance to find a new yard if they wish.

 

[*starfish*]

They did this at my old yard and resulting in me falling off my pony as he tripped in one of the holes they had dug, and fell on his face - luckily his body didn't land on me! Get them to stop before an accident is caused.

 

[Annagain]

As you've said, the livery side of things has evolved without you really planning it, but you now need to plan it properly. As you've left it until the liveries are already there, you will now need to do it in consultation with them and maybe a bit of give and take. That doesn't mean I think you should let her do it (if they get that much turnout why is there even a need for it? Mine would always prefer a roll in the mud rather than the school) but rather than impose rules, if you let them help to make them they'll be far more likely to stick to them.

At our yard, the school is getting on a bit and could do with a top up but is generally fine. We're only allowed to turn out in it in exceptional circumstances for short periods e.g. when one of the horses had lymphangitis and mud fever so needed to move as much as possible but couldn't go out in the field. He was allowed in the school for 30 minutes a few times a day. Every time a livery was there mucking out etc we'd turn him out while we were there so his owner didn't have to keep coming up.

My boy is also allowed in for a roll on the lunge line occasionally as if he doesn't get a roll in the morning he's vile to deal with so if I need him clean (he's grey!) and can't turn him out before riding he goes in there - this is maybe 4 or 5 times a winter.

This is all with the YO's agreement and we have to make good any holes / flat patches. Maybe you could offer this to your liveries as a compromise?

As an aside, what do your other liveries think about it?

 

[EmmasMummy]

Can I ask.........how much extra damage can loose turn out do than schooling etc? And in the umbrella of schooling I am going to include jumping and interval type training.....

To me I would see issues if say......fence was too low- animal will attempt to escape. or if you have areas of exposed substructure etc.

Horses will pee and poo loose or schooled...

Some places say no lunging, which to me is insane......as its a good form of exercise...and I don't see why having side reins give any extra control, if horse is going to go tits enough to damage the arena its going to go tits...

Surely part of the maintenance of an arena is regular chain harrow or whatever it is?

I fail to see how big a hole can be dug in a short space of time...

But then I dont have a school

 

[chocolategirl]

I think if you had was paid for and waited for a decent arena surface then you would appreciate why us yard owners don't like people allowing horses to hooley about and dig up the arena, once its wrecked its wrecked.
I would just tell her not to do it! Following a week of my liveries going nuts on the lunge and digging up my school I have asked for people not to lunge unless totally in control and with some can of tack / training aid on.
If they go through the surface they then tear the membrane then the surface is ruined.
Your yard, your rules!

I agree this is definitely part of the problem. Livery clients don't care how much your facilities have cost you, If they ever had the chance to have their own place with arena I'm 100% certain they would realise what a very precious facility a good arena is and would be just the same as you are with yours. I will unlikely ever be able to afford a new arena in the future which is why I'm determined to keep mine good for as long as possible. OP, I am same as you live on a farm, had own horses initially then went into the livery, I have had to make some rules up as I go along because it's very difficult to foresee some of the totally unacceptable things people do!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Surely part of the maintenance of an arena is regular chain harrow or whatever it is?

I fail to see how big a hole can be dug in a short space of time...

But then I dont have a school

If you did have a school, you'd realise just how much damage can be done by inappropriate use. A horse can dig a good few deep holes if left unattended for a few minutes. These holes will probably be much deeper than normal footholes. Even if they don't penetrate the membrane or sublayer, great care must be taken to refill the holes and then tamp the surface down hard. It's not enough to rake over the holes, as then they will be filled with loose sand creating a false surface. Before long, if this is allowed to go on, a surface is ruined with patches of firm and soft going.

Harrowing is great for levelling a surface after normal use, but cannot repair a deep hole, it will only conceal it.

I have had practice at repairing holes in my sand and rubber surface, caused by bunnies. It was a complete and time consuming p@$#%^ to fettle each hole correctly.

 

[quirky]

I would put a blanket ban on turnout in school if I was yo.

There is only 1 person who does it on our yard and the damage is noticeable
He goes down to roll and when he gets up, he scrapes a furrow in the surface as he gets up. He then trogs off bucking and farting at such a rate and he seems to brace his feet against the kick boards, making rather large holes. We have managed to hit one of the holes and my horse only just managed to remain upright.
Bizarrely, the yo is okay with it, it is the other liveries who are annoyed by it. Our theory is that she puts a lot of money the yo's way (horse schooled and lessons), so she is allowed to get away with anything she wants.....but that might be a bit disingenuous of us

 

[SkewbyTwo]

I have a livery who is a happy hacker, hates using the arena. The only thing she uses it for is, after hacking she puts the horse and its companion donkey onto the surface to roll and play.

Am i being unreasonable in asking her not to do that? it makes me really mad. that arena cost me a fortune and the rest of us use it properly. its not doing any real harm other than leaving flat patches and the donkey will dig bits if not watched properly.
But i really feel she is quite disrespectful of the facility.

Any input appreciated

Sounds like you dislike her/"happy hackers".

 

[MillionDollar]

As a YO, I have rules in place, including no loose schooling, lunging or turnout in the indoor or outdoor arenas. They have a round pen for loose schooling/lunging and all-weather turnout pens for turnout.

No, you're not being unreasonable at all, I know how much facilities cost to build and I wish people would realise this.

I would advise you to get contracts sorted out and in these have a list of rules.