Acceptable condition to discharge a horse after operation?

star said:
Oh yes because Wikipedia is a far superior source of information to 5yrs at vet school and 7yrs in practice dealing with wound infections from idiot owners who let their dogs lick their wounds.
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Just what I was going to write :)

And of course you did not say that dog saliva did not contain antibacterial substances, just that by the time it's been over the dogs filthy teeth, it's not sterile.
 
star said:
Oh yes because Wikipedia is a far superior source of information to 5yrs at vet school and 7yrs in practice dealing with wound infections from idiot owners who let their dogs lick their wounds.
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Perhaps you would kindly quote your references so we may all gain from your knowledge.:)

Or is it anecdotal?
 
Dry Rot, licking a wound when you are a wild animal with no access to a vet may well be a good survival strategy.

That does not mean that it is as safe for a domestic dog to lick its vet-sterilized wounds as it is to be prevented from doing so.

Do you know of any research that has been done on this, it would be interesting to know?
 
if I licked my bum and other neither regions i would not then think my mouth was a clean enough environment to lick at an open wound, especially one that has been cleaned and sterilized for me by a doctor. but if i was in a jungle/lost in the dessert then licking ti to clean it when first cut may be preferable to just leaving it dirty form the off.
 
twiggy2 said:
if I licked my bum and other neither regions i would not then think my mouth was a clean enough environment to lick at an open wound, especially one that has been cleaned and sterilized for me by a doctor. but if i was in a jungle/lost in the dessert then licking ti to clean it when first cut may be preferable to just leaving it dirty form the off.
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Now why couldn't I have thought of that example - brilliant :D
 
..off to practice more yoga.. : )

I'm glad your horse is ok after his op. I don't think being returned bloodstained looks good. It suggests "lazy ineffective groom", which isn't what anyone expects to pay livery for.
 
ozpoz said:
..off to practice more yoga.. : )

I'm glad your horse is ok after his op. I don't think being returned bloodstained looks good. It suggests "lazy ineffective groom", which isn't what anyone expects to pay livery for.
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I recommend the ligament snip to anyone with a horse with kissing spines. His back is already clearly longer and more 'open', and all he has is five tiny wounds with three, four or five staples in that already look as if they were just scratches. I should be riding again in just six weeks :o. This has to work, it's his last chance because he is unrideable now, even on two Bute a day :(

I keep meaning to start yoga, do you recommend it?
 
cptrayes said:
Dry Rot, licking a wound when you are a wild animal with no access to a vet may well be a good survival strategy.

That does not mean that it is as safe for a domestic dog to lick its vet-sterilized wounds as it is to be prevented from doing so.

Do you know of any research that has been done on this, it would be interesting to know?
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Since most animals lick their wounds, research would seem to be unnecessary as if it was harmful they would have become extinct by now.

Sorry, this is my last post on this thread. I'm off to join the adults.:)
 
All that means is that animals that are not treated by a vet which lick their wounds live more often than those which don't lick their wounds.

It can also be the case, without any conflict, that more animals which have been treated by a vet heal without complication if they are not allowed to lick their wound.
 
Yeah animal in the wild v domesticated vet treated animal not quite the same ...... No natural source of chlorhexidine (sp)

Hope it resolves his issues CP
 
Last time I had my horse into the vet hospital, he came away spotless and I came away covered in blood and other things. Wearing a white polo shirt was one of my less bright moves.

They didn't offer me a clean shirt. I think that was appalling service. ;-)
 
star said:
Oh yes because Wikipedia is a far superior source of information to 5yrs at vet school and 7yrs in practice dealing with wound infections from idiot owners who let their dogs lick their wounds.
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There are a couple of studies indicating that saliva glund hypofunction leads to longer healing times, e.g.:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/027823919290397I

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1600-0714.1991.tb00916.x/abstract


while patients with deminished saliva gland function suffer from various mouth conditions due to the loss self-cleaning and anti-bacterial functions of saliva:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...sCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false

The anti-bacterial action of saliva is well documented in textbooks, e.g.:
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01354542#page-1

and here is an account of how saliva promotes wound healing:
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10561-004-4367-7#page-1
 
cptrayes said:
Yes it's a bit camels and straws :)

I'm trying to focus on how incredible the increase in flexibility in his back is. I've written a mild 'is this right?' Email and sent it to the head of practice, who knows me well, with the photo.

I have also asked not to be billed for the day before surgery, because I took him in a day early at their request, but nothing whatsoever was done with him until an hour before the operation. I was going to just pay up on that, but this has changed my mind.

I just need to pop outside and stab the poor pincushion again now. He's on the most gigantic doses of antibiotics as a precaution.
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Now you see - being able to stab your poor pincushion is a luxuary around here - so you maybe ought to re think your standards before this one is withdrawn from you too - and your vet bill would be significantly higher with the necessary visits or you may be on powder antibiotics
 
The thing is booboos is yes it does help to some extent in the wild with a dirty wound. With s veterinary treated sterile insicion probably best to keep it sterile ;). Fwiw lysozymes not all good given that it is used to encourage spores to germinate :p
 
ester said:
The thing is booboos is yes it does help to some extent in the wild with a dirty wound. With s veterinary treated sterile insicion probably best to keep it sterile ;). Fwiw lysozymes not all good given that it is used to encourage spores to germinate :p
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I can't see any support for what you say in the research I mentioned but perhaps you had something else in mind?

BTW how long would a sterile insicion remain sterile in a stable, or home or garden?
 
Shooting Star said:
no, not acceptable in my view & would be most unhappy too. My lad was in liphook last week and he even came home with squeaky clean manly bits having arrived with it totally filthy (surgery not related to that area!) - now that's what I call service! ;)
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My gelding also had his man bits cleaned when he was in Rossdales having his tendon op, he was also groomed top to toe.

The SGUO was really well cared for when she was in RVC.

I thought that level of care was standard in all the vet hospitals....
I would complain if I'd received the service the original poster has...
 
I was on phone so not in a position to reference sterile being better than licking. The lysozyme bit is right... although might only result in gas gangrene I suppose!

With regards to maintenance of sterility once home depends on whether it is dressed or not/the quality of the stitching/stapling.
 
Also I am not sure that demonstrations of oral healing with reduced salivatory function or its affect on cell lines can be easily extrapolated to externals wounds. Fwiw I am coming at this mostly from a microbiologists point of view. I'm not so up on growth factors and cytokines which is mostly where the promotion of healing affects are coming from. They do help but it's a question of whether they help over and above the detrimental bacteriology affects.
 
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brucea said:
Last time I had my horse into the vet hospital, he came away spotless and I came away covered in blood and other things. Wearing a white polo shirt was one of my less bright moves.

They didn't offer me a clean shirt. I think that was appalling service. ;-)
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the least they could have done was hose you down brucea, did they not even do that :D ???
 
I don't have the time to look u references for this (too many other papers to be reading right now) but what Star is talking about is not anecdotal, it is evidence based medicine - which incidentally is more applicable to real life situations than research papers are. I too have had many many cases where a dog (in particular) licking its wounds results in wound breakdown and infection. One patient in particular had 23 post op appointments and 3 subsequent ops as a result of the owner refusing to leave on his buster collar. He doesn't lick it at all (I counted - and pointed out 13 incidents of licking in the consult alone!). It was a surgical wound for tumour removal and ended up costing the practice a small fortune. I counted a minimum of 18 hours of unchargeable consult time on that one! Grrr!
 
Gingerwitch said:
Now you see - being able to stab your poor pincushion is a luxuary around here - so you maybe ought to re think your standards before this one is withdrawn from you too - and your vet bill would be significantly higher with the necessary visits or you may be on powder antibiotics
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i don't understand your point? i've been injecting horses for 30 years overseen by seven different vet practices in various parts of the country. everywhere has been more than happy to allow competent and confident owners to do their own antibiotic intramuscular jabs.

if my permission to do so rested on accepting poor quality care for my horse i would not continue to use that vet anyway. Would anyone/???
 
Booboos said:
I can't see any support for what you .................. or garden?
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Hi Booboos, i would not want you or anyone else to believe that i had complained about a hospital that my horse was never at. Did you see my post telling you that your assumption that he was at a place in Wales was incorrect?
 
and since this thread is still running, the update today is that the patient is doing stunningly well, with all five keyholes almost as flat as pancakes and the horse able to turn small circles with no apparent issues at all.
 
It beggars belief. I have a reply from the head of the practice saying that my horse left hospital clean and he sweated the blood out in the lorry on the way home.

So now not only did they leave my horse with blood on him from the operation, they are saying that I am lying about it.

I have, of course, changed vet.
 
WOW biggest mistake any business can make is to tell a lie, if they had held their hands up and said they were really sorry for what was an error and should not have happened but 'that they hope X is doing really well and recovering nicely' most clients would have accepted their apology.

I would move and take it further if I felt the practice manager had lied to me.
 
Blimey, it might have been a small issue resolved with an apology if they'd been decent about it.

Fwiw the last time I had a horse back from the vets he'd had the works; full groom, mane & tail de-tangler, the lot - more than he ever got at home, lol. That was Willesley (B&W Equine).
 
The reply actually says he was groomed on both days. For goodness sake, he's moulting summer coat. Do they think I can't tell when a short coated moulting horse horse has or has not been groomed?


The funny thing is, I got a 'sorry' by text which I was really happy with and had let the issue drop from my mind, then yesterday the Practice Head was trying to ring me. I guessed with a sinking heart that he was about to come out with a load of excuses and managed to keep the conversation in emails so that I did not run any risk of losing my rag on the phone. What I did not expect was an email back effectively accusing me of making the whole thing up.

For anyone joining us newly, this is what we are talking about. My horse was released from hospital looking like this. I had already cleaned a lot more off him before this photo was taken.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SbutIUtV41s/Uiiq7DEbGmI/AAAAAAAABCk/nB3ebhgyIpQ/s1600/Ace's+back+day+2.jpg
 
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