Acceptable or not?

It wouldn't bother me particularly, as long as a; bedding/hay was included in the price I was paying-I wouldn't be prepared to pay extra if my stable was not exclusively used for my horse, b; my stable was immediately made available 24/7 if my horse needed box rest and c; the bed was always kept clean and fresh.
 
Unless they charge a lot less for it, then no I don't think it is acceptable. What if your horse needs box rest for a long period (God forbid)? Sounds a bit money grabbing to me, and it's not something I would be willing to put up with on full livery.
 
Be assumptive. Ask them what the reduction on your livery is while you are box sharing and when will you have your box back full time. Take that stance rather than being apologetic..
 
Not acceptable at all so the yard are getting two lots of payment for one stable thats very cheeky, you should have been asked if you had a problem with the new arrangement and been offered to pay for half of the stable rent as effectively you are sharing a stable with someone.
 
ester said:
Presumably your owners have been spoken to/are ok about this though?
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Well, I'll be totally honest I don't actually know if it's something that is stated explicitly to new liveries (I'm not involved in that conversation), but we certainly don't hide that that is a daily occurrence on our yard and part of our routine and all our current liveries are aware for sure.

And yes, our full livery really does include EVERYTHING (feed, bedding, lessons for liveries and even fitness work for the horse if requested, although competing it does cost more, and shoeing/vet is paid by owner).
 
Enfys said:
NOT! I would expect FULL livery to include exclusive use of a stable.
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Sorry to pick on your quote Enfys, it was easiest one to click on as at the end, but question applies to everyone.

Why?

For DIY, I can see why - you do everything yourself, have your own routine etc. But if the yard is doing everything in full livery, then as long as you aren't losing money on something like bedding (which I'd assume would be included in full livery) then why exclusive use of a stable? As long as your horse is being stabled and kept to good standards then why is it an issue?

I understood the point about infection control made earlier, but as long as all horses are being adequately wormed, then unless you do not compete and do not hack on tracks used by other horses etc then you are exposing your horse to potential infection every time you leave the yard - so why this particular thing? Any yard environment is likely to see an infectious disease whizz round the whole lot of them very quickly unless they are isolated, which most stables don't count as being (you'd need a specific isolation stable). Especially as these horses may also be being turned out on the same land, on the opposite pattern, so they are likely all very much in contact anyway. (Can you tell I've done quite a bit of pathology and infection control?)

And, if the yard isn't actually overstocking, then there should be room to have a horse on box rest if required. Most grass livery yards manage it. It just means changing things round a bit.

Out of interest, would you all also object to horses being moved stables and things as well?

Having done DIY and full livery myself, and worked on part and full livery yards, I feel very strongly about owners expectations. It's not like a DIY when you are 'entitled' to thing - everything is included, but WE do it, organise it and run it! And owner's whom you can't do anything to the horse such as move stables, adjust feed, change rugs, etc without having to phone them first really drive me nuts… go and do DIY or part then!!!!

Obviously in the OP's case they may genuinely be scamming her a bit, but I don't think that sharing a box immediately is a concern - the lack of openness about it is more so.
 
This is something I have never heard of being done before - personally when on full livery I expect my stable to be available to my horse at any time.

For example - I have a day off from work, I want my horse in, clean and ready for me to ride - how can this happen if his stable is in use by another horse.

Or - what if my horse has to be on box rest - has an abscess - how will they cope with this?

What if the weather is really stink, a foot of snow overnight or very heavy rain and my horse can't be turned out - what happens to the horse that usually comes in during the day.

This sort of system sounds very much like money grabbing.

I certainly would not accept this sort of system.
 
See I disagree here. My horse is on part livery and I do not expect changes to be made without talking to me. I am up there pretty much every day anyway. The only exception would be someone changing rugging if the weather changed dramatically. I have my choice of vet, farrier and physio. Mine is stabled at night as well, even in summer as all attempts at having him out overnight have resulted in a big bill for me. I have box shared on a temporary basis but it was just that and to help out.
 
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I'm pretty easy going and flexible, but there is no way I would put up with this, especially if it changed without me being consulted. I would understand and be happy for it to happen during the summer as a temporary solution (e.g building work to other stables) if I was asked and received a discount for it and as long as cross infection wasn't an issue (if horses shared grazing or were in regular contact with each other). However, if my horse was coming in for half the time in winter, I would want it to be overnight. It's different if they're out 24/7 but very few people would want a horse in during the day and out at night in winter.

Are they working on a solution or is this permanent?
 
I wouldn't be happy if this was happening with out the YO speaking to me in advance. I also wouldn't be happy if it was a long term thing. We have done it on our yard to help out in the past though, once because of infectious disease meaning some stables couldn't be used, once because snow caused some stables to be dangerous and a couple of times while stables have been painted or washed or having mats fitted or when a new horse has arrived early.
 
khalswitz said:
Sorry to pick on your quote Enfys, it was easiest one to click on as at the end, but question applies to everyone.

Why?

For DIY, I can see why - you do everything yourself, have your own routine etc. But if the yard is doing everything in full livery, then as long as you aren't losing money on something like bedding (which I'd assume would be included in full livery) then why exclusive use of a stable? As long as your horse is being stabled and kept to good standards then why is it an issue?

I understood the point about infection control made earlier, but as long as all horses are being adequately wormed, then unless you do not compete and do not hack on tracks used by other horses etc then you are exposing your horse to potential infection every time you leave the yard - so why this particular thing? Any yard environment is likely to see an infectious disease whizz round the whole lot of them very quickly unless they are isolated, which most stables don't count as being (you'd need a specific isolation stable). Especially as these horses may also be being turned out on the same land, on the opposite pattern, so they are likely all very much in contact anyway. (Can you tell I've done quite a bit of pathology and infection control?)

And, if the yard isn't actually overstocking, then there should be room to have a horse on box rest if required. Most grass livery yards manage it. It just means changing things round a bit.

Out of interest, would you all also object to horses being moved stables and things as well?

Having done DIY and full livery myself, and worked on part and full livery yards, I feel very strongly about owners expectations. It's not like a DIY when you are 'entitled' to thing - everything is included, but WE do it, organise it and run it! And owner's whom you can't do anything to the horse such as move stables, adjust feed, change rugs, etc without having to phone them first really drive me nuts… go and do DIY or part then!!!!

Obviously in the OP's case they may genuinely be scamming her a bit, but I don't think that sharing a box immediately is a concern - the lack of openness about it is more so.
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It is the lack of openness that is my main concern. I am obviously aware of the lack of stable as I can count. I would be willing to help accommodate this if it was on a short term basis and weather conditions allow. There is enough grazing so that isn't a concern. Full livery at the yard is supposed to include hay, bedding, basic hard feed and mucking out/turnout. One rate all year round of £95 per week. I originally went to full livery to accommodate a busy spell at work as I have a young child and a husband who works away. Previously I had always been DIY so I have tried not to be one of those owners you speak of who want to be consulted about everything with their horse. I have kept my nose out and allowed them to make decisions. I am now considering if I would be best going back to assisted DIY.
 
Luci07 said:
See I disagree here. My horse is on part livery and I do not expect changes to be made without talking to me. I am up there pretty much every day anyway. The only exception would be someone changing rugging if the weather changed dramatically. I have my choice of vet, farrier and physio. Mine is stabled at night as well, even in summer as all attempts at having him out overnight have resulted in a big bill for me. I have box shared on a temporary basis but it was just that and to help out.
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I think I'd be inclined to agree with you. I don't think it's unreasonable to be consulted about my horses care.
 
YouOnlyLiveOnce said:
Absolutely not acceptable to share a stable in my opinion.
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that is a good one !
I would definately not be accepting this ! may I ask how much they want you to pay for this arrangement ?

edit; wrong quote (this is what working 12 hours a day does to you) meant to quote the person who said imagine someone else living in your house while you're at work!
 
Luci07 said:
See I disagree here. My horse is on part livery and I do not expect changes to be made without talking to me. I am up there pretty much every day anyway. The only exception would be someone changing rugging if the weather changed dramatically. I have my choice of vet, farrier and physio. Mine is stabled at night as well, even in summer as all attempts at having him out overnight have resulted in a big bill for me. I have box shared on a temporary basis but it was just that and to help out.
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Was this aimed at me, sorry? If so, then part livery I agree like DIY it is your routine and you mainly doing the horse with them helping, so of course you'd expect 'your' stable to be available if you needed to say come up at a different time or change somethkng.

Full however is a different story. If they have to say bring your horse in for box rest, or an extra night for whatever reason, it's easy to move things around because they have control of the whole yard. I would be easy to use a different box for that other horse, for example. It's a totally different way of working things.

Wobbly1 said:
It is the lack of openness that is my main concern. I am obviously aware of the lack of stable as I can count. I would be willing to help accommodate this if it was on a short term basis and weather conditions allow. There is enough grazing so that isn't a concern. Full livery at the yard is supposed to include hay, bedding, basic hard feed and mucking out/turnout. One rate all year round of £95 per week. I originally went to full livery to accommodate a busy spell at work as I have a young child and a husband who works away. Previously I had always been DIY so I have tried not to be one of those owners you speak of who want to be consulted about everything with their horse. I have kept my nose out and allowed them to make decisions. I am now considering if I would be best going back to assisted DIY.
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The lack of openness would concern me too, and I do think in this case you are right to pursue this for sure. My reason for posting is more the expectation that no one else should be using your stable at all. Both full livery yards I've worked at, we've used the same stables for multiple horses (say one at night and a couple for a few hours each during the day for example at thefirst, and the system I described at the current one), and my horse on grass livery regularly shared a box as there were only 3 boxes between 7 horses for use for a few hours/ as required.

My comment about 'interfering' owners was not aimed at you, just that a majority of users here do DIY and therefore that will colour how they perceive things. Full livery is not the same.

ester said:
Because Frank likes his stable to smell of him ;) :p
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This is actually a good one - when we've had stallions or late cut geldings we've NEVER, ever shared boxes, and some horses are more sensitive to their stable smell as a rule.

However I do find the expectation of having 'your' stable at full livery a bit bewildering I'll be honest.
 
See this is why I love my yard. They know that they have some full liveries who want to turn up twice a week and ride their horse and would prefer not to think about it in between times and that they have other full liveries who are only on full livery due to work commitments and are interested in their horse and involved with it and would have it on diy if they had time.

They wouldn't dream of doing anything with my horse beyond feeding an extra net or changing a rug without speaking to me but they deal with other liveries differently.

They know that my horse is stressy and would avoid moving her and would speak to me if they had to move her for some reason, others they would mention it next time they saw the owner.
 
To me Full Livery means that the horse owner
Rents a box and maybe grazing as well
Yard provides a member of staff to care for the horse totally, mucking out, grooming etc
The horse is exercised for the owner
All feed, hay & bedding is provided
Someone will be on hand to hold horse for vet, farrier etc
Tack is cleaned
Horse is plaited up for shows for owner (may incur extra charge)
Horse is ready for you to ride at a time requested by owner

Sharing a box with someone else is not on.
I've worked in many yards over the years and I've never yet come across a yard that has horses share boxes.
Horses generally don't like others using 'their space' to be put in a different stable each time would be stressful for some and cause all manner of problems.
 
On yards with more horses than stables and the horses are on full livery, what would happen if there was truly awful weather forecast for overnight and all the owners wanted their horses in overnight? The full livery yard where I used to live was £190 per week. If I was paying that, I would expect my horse to be able to be in their stable when required due to things out of human control eg the aforementioned bad weather.

It wasn't that long ago that we had awful snowstorms one night, I normally never stable my horses, but they came in that night and for about two weeks after were just turned out for a few hours on the flattest area, which had had to be dug out with snow shovels. The snow on the flat was about 3ft deep, the drifts were huge, well over 6ft in places. They were so deep that many sheep up the valley asphyxiated in the drifts and couldn't be found/removed until the snow melted.

I have to say that Khalswitz's posts confirm why I would never have a horse on full livery (I'm not saying that her yard is bad in any way), even if I had money coming out of my ears to pay for it, but then I tried part livery once and hated that too. The horse isn't 'yours' in the same way as if you look after it yourself IMO.
 
I am on diy livery which gives me a stable and all year turnout. As far as I am concerned if a stable is included in my livery agreement then it is "mine" to use, regardless of whether my horse is in or not, and no one else's unless I agree. Otherwise I blooming well expect the cost of said stable to be deducted from my bill. After all, I wouldn't buy an expensive pair of shoes for someone else to walk around in for me so I don't expect another horse to use my neddy stable for him!
 
Kat said:
See this is why I love my yard. They know that they have some full liveries who want to turn up twice a week and ride their horse and would prefer not to think about it in between times and that they have other full liveries who are only on full livery due to work commitments and are interested in their horse and involved with it and would have it on diy if they had time.

They wouldn't dream of doing anything with my horse beyond feeding an extra net or changing a rug without speaking to me but they deal with other liveries differently.

They know that my horse is stressy and would avoid moving her and would speak to me if they had to move her for some reason, others they would mention it next time they saw the owner.
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We would always check with the owner before changing something more than day to day maintainance, too. That's just good service.

But there is checking and telling, and then there's owners who are on continually wanting things changed, and essentially like you say wish they were on DIY!

Some very experienced and knowledgable horse people livery with us, and are fab because they do let us get on with it - they understand!

Regarding bringing in in bad weather - all ours are in in this rain, it's been our own yard horses who have stayed out to make room. All the eventers are on holiday from start of October til the snow goes, so coincides with weather we may need liveries in.

Faracat I completely agree, I prefer mine on DIY too! But that's because I accept what full livery does entail and part of that is giving up some control, which many horsy people do find difficult.

Tnavas - a very few, yes, would find it stressful, so you have to manage for that. However most really don't mind as long as the bed is clean, and they've got plenty fresh hay and water. They cope fine with other horses' smells on their field too!
 
kez81 said:
I am on diy livery which gives me a stable and all year turnout. As far as I am concerned if a stable is included in my livery agreement then it is "mine" to use, regardless of whether my horse is in or not, and no one else's unless I agree. Otherwise I blooming well expect the cost of said stable to be deducted from my bill. After all, I wouldn't buy an expensive pair of shoes for someone else to walk around in for me so I don't expect another horse to use my neddy stable for him!
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As I said - DIY is different. You pay to have a stable to use as you like. Full livery you pay for the care of your horse, ie it to be stabled as per your wishes rather than leasing the box.
 
khalswitz said:
As I said - DIY is different. You pay to have a stable to use as you like. Full livery you pay for the care of your horse, ie it to be stabled as per your wishes rather than leasing the box.
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Yes full livery is different but having been on it for a few years before I find leasing the box idea to be a nothing but a scam. Full livery to me means I pay for turnout, stable, feed and services such as bringing in and out. Regardless of whether i am doing the day to day care or not, if I have paid for a stable i expect one of my own for sole use not for my horse to be shifted about. If a yard can't offer full use of the stable then they should be offering full grass livery at a lower cost not scamming owners by getting paid twice for one stable.
 
khalswitz said:
The lack of openness would concern me too, and I do think in this case you are right to pursue this for sure. My reason for posting is more the expectation that no one else should be using your stable at all. Both full livery yards I've worked at, we've used the same stables for multiple horses (say one at night and a couple for a few hours each during the day for example at thefirst, and the system I described at the current one), and my horse on grass livery regularly shared a box as there were only 3 boxes between 7 horses for use for a few hours/ as required.

My comment about 'interfering' owners was not aimed at you, just that a majority of users here do DIY and therefore that will colour how they perceive things. Full livery is not the same.
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Oh no I know and understand that it was not aimed at me I just wanted to clarify I was not being demanding. However as I have previously been a DIY livery I have found the idea of full livery difficult and I did go into it with my eyes open aware that I was essentially losing some control over certain aspects of care. In my case I just feel the yard owner has done this at a time when the weather is likely to be difficult to predict and leaves me in a situation where I now need to raise my concerns. Having worked a quite a few yards in my younger years I know it is all about compromise, but this is a new one on me.
 
Ive only ever heard of one livery yard that shared stables. It was generally known for not being an very good one, and the stable sharing seems to be the reason most people moved on. On all yards I've worked on or stabled on each horse has had its own stable 24/7, whatever livery contract they're on. The only system in which this may have changed was grass livery, where several horses lived out with a field shelter and one stable on the yard as an emergency box or one that was used by them all for farriers etc.

I always get the impression that a yard that has to juggle things around is on borrowed time until something goes wrong, be it a bad winter or something needing box rest etc.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

As most people have said if I had been made aware or it was discussed then it is a different situation however in this situation I feel more taken advantage of as I am fairly laid back (or at least try to be) and it does not seem fair. Esp with no reduction in charges, there are a few other rumbling issues and the lack of openness creates a trust issue for me which may seem a bit petty but it's just how I feel.
 
FULL LIVERY PEOPLE WITH MORE HORSES THAN BOXES - would you please answer this question as it seems to have been missed? :)

What happens if all the horses need to come in due to factors out of human control eg terrible weather?
 
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