Acceptable or not?

Faracat said:
FULL LIVERY PEOPLE WITH MORE HORSES THAN BOXES - would you please answer this question as it seems to have been missed? :)

What happens if all the horses need to come in due to factors out of human control eg terrible weather?
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I will let you know when I ask today ;)

The reason it became highlighted to me was we had a particularly stormy night and I presumed that my horse would have been in. Yard owner usually does do this. But no he was out and issue was brushed aside that the weather deteriorated overnight. Then i realised there may be another reason for this.
 
Sorry but if I am paying nearly 100 pounds per week I would expect my horse to be properly cared for with the arrangement I initially agreed and I would never agree to my horse being made to be out at night because something else had its stable On full livery I would also expect to be told of any change in the horses management I am a very reasonable person with the ""patience of Job" but unless it was a very temporary arrangement and all bedding was removed and replaced stable disinfected I would not want my horses stable to be used by anyone else
This is a bit like saying that the horse can only have a maximum of one hay net or can only have pony nuts or competition mix to eat, even on full livery the horse should be managed according to the owners wishes after all they are paying for a service. I think that is the biggest point you are paying for a service which is not being provided you are expecting the horse to have its management done according to your wishes and I cannot imagine those that are expecting their horses to be in are expecting them to be turfed out at night, so the livery owner can make more money, in a snowy winter or constant rain and wind. Mine now live out 24/7 but when they did have to come in they always came in overnight in winter but now I am very dubious about the practices of livery yards
 
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khalswitz said:
Regarding bringing in in bad weather - all ours are in in this rain, it's been our own yard horses who have stayed out to make room. All the eventers are on holiday from start of October til the snow goes, so coincides with weather we may need liveries in.
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K - sorry I somehow missed this. Ooops.

I'm not really talking about normal rain or even normal high winds. I'm talking about really extreme weather which does seem to be happening a bit more frequently these days. I just can't imagine someone paying full livery prices being happy that their horse is out in extreme weather due to overstocking.

In your yard's case, would the YO leave his eventers out in extreme weather so that the livery horses could be in?
 
To me, this would be unacceptable, in spite of the arguments put forward that full livery means I'm paying the care and management of my horse. I agree that putting your horse on full livery is a bit of a leap of faith - you have to relinquish some of the "decision making" to the yard and trust that they get it right. But at the yard I'm on (at full livery) I get exclusive use of my stable and no-one shares it. On occasion, the YO makes changes to who stables where (principally because the stables vary in size and she may get a new livery in who needs a bigger box), but when such moves are made, the box you end up with is still essentially "yours". I would be very unhappy to be told I had to either share or that someone was using my box during the day.

Having said that, the YO does mix and match her own horses in her own stables, but never the liveries, as they all come in every night year round.
 
Well, although we don't have an official contract, it is stated that the rent of the stable is included in the livery cost, and that you don't get a reduction if you have your horse out 24/7.

On the rare occasion I've box shared, my boy was out 24/7, and the YM essentially sublet my box and I got half my livery fee back. (at the end of the box-share, the entire bed was lifted and a new one put down).

If you are constantly switching horses in and out of boxes, when do you get a chance to lift the bed and dry out the floor/disinfect etc?
 
No it is not acceptable and I would be pretty unhappy if my horse had to be left out because another was in her stable. The amount you pay for full livery, sorry but I'd expect my own stable! Also, quite frankly if the YO/YM has not been honest about this from the start then I probably wouldn't be able to trust them. If this is the system they work on then you should have been told this BEFORE even moving onto the yard IMO.
 
This is unnaceptable in my books, unless discussed in advance / reduced livery.

I'd be interested to know the outcome of your discussions!!

Box shares are very common in dealers yards, and some private competition yards and I don't have anything against it in principal, but not if you are paying full livery!
 
I'm particular about having a decent stable. That is: one big enough for the horse, with adequate ventilation, which doesn't leak or flood. I leave rugs in my stable. When I go to view a yard I ask which stable my horse will have. If I don't like it, I don't move to the yard.

I did once put up with finding riding school ponies in my stable during the day, but the yard had no issue with me moving them to another spare stable when I arrived. I did have a rant at a staff member who told me off for moving a colicky horse out of my box (I didn't know it had colic, it was just another intruder to me), reminding her that I was a paying customer not one of the 'work for rides' children and that I should be spoken to with respect.

I only put up with the situation on this particular yard because I was getting full livery (hay, feed, bedding included and stable jobs, turnout/bring in, rug changes done) for 45 pounds per week on a yard with two arenas and plentiful off road hacking. I would not have paid 70+ per week for somebody to share my stable or the YO to move my horse around to suit them.
 
Faracat said:
FULL LIVERY PEOPLE WITH MORE HORSES THAN BOXES - would you please answer this question as it seems to have been missed? :)

What happens if all the horses need to come in due to factors out of human control eg terrible weather?
Click to expand...

For us, (although despite three feet of snow every year and lots of rain we have never had fields bad enough we couldn't turn out, but we do have 150 acres so it's easy to have some mud free fields!) we do have three very old, quite small boxes in then old part of the barn which we don't like to use as they are quite small and draughty, as well as an old cow byre which we can split for two horses. However on a regular basis it is much nicer for the horses to be able to use the big, airy loose boxes - so they really are for absolute emergencies.

Because we have never been unable to turn out, we would usually bring liveries in and turn our horses out in the bad weather. Especially as the eventers are getting turned away for the winter as the bad weather starts to hit.

Regarding whoever said about lifting beds - twice daily they get lifted, as the day bed is only thin, and boxes get disinfected when a horse leaves/ occupant of the box changes. Only four liveries currently share two boxes, and all four are long term, although we share boxes with all the private comp horses in the other yard. We would never put a new horse into a box share with a livery, ever.

Whoever said about private comp yards probably made a good point - ours is mainly an event yard, with two pros and two amateur but FEI level riders working out of it (family), and the liveries are people really who want to train with one or then other of them mainly, so priorities are maybe slightly different?
 
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I've been on full livery at the same yard for 6 years. I think we've switched stable once in that time - my boy was on box rest for wobblers and his shavings bed was too deep for him (imagine tripping over your shavings!). Rather than dig it all out and waste it, we swapped him to a different stable with a smaller bed.

I think though that as a general rule of thumb, I would expect a dedicated stable for my horse. He's quite funny about his neighbours and constant swapping and changing probably wouldn't do him any good. Also I've always had salt licks or treats in a stable so I wouldn't fancy sharing these with somebody else's horse!
 
Totally unacceptable! To me any sort of livery means stable and grazing, and use of facilities as stated, feed and hay and bedding ditto. Our YO does sometimes use a box but always consults the livery first. I have been on full and diy livery and have never come across this situation, its like renting a house you are renting for your use and its the same with a stable. Your YO sounds a bit arrogant to me, and as someone else on here has said you need to find out exactly how long this arrangement will continue, how it will affect the care and routine of your horse and how much your livery will be reduced by to compensate for not being able to use the stable as and when required.
 
It should be made very clear from the start.
But if the horse is in full livery,I cave see why it wouldn't work, the horses would definitely get turnout all through the winter.
There would need to be a contingency incase horses needed box rest.
 
My current yard will very occasionally use my stable if my horse isn't in it - usually just for an hour or two, perhaps while one of theirs waits for the farrier/vet, or if a visitor wants somwhere to put a horse while preparing for a lesson. If I needed a stable in that time I'd use another empty stable to tie up, or tie up outside until the guest was moved on. I accept that because I know (through experience) that I will get 'my' stable back. The main irritation is when I've had to skip out after the visitor<grrr>. If dire weather or circumstance forces horses that usually live out to be brought in longer term, I know they will create temporary stables in barns if need be, not move me out!

I'd also accept that horse may be moved around the yard ('my' stable may change) if equine relationships dictated it and it impacted harmonious management of the yard - e.g needing to move enemies apart - but that has not happened in several years.

However, I'd not accept finding that I had to leave my horse out overnight, or couldn't use the stable for box rest or to get ready for a competition because it was earmarked for another horse 12 hours a day!
 
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