Access to Forestry Commission land

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Dry Rot

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Just now I have steam coming out of my ears I'm so angry!!! One thing I cannot stand is petty bureaucrats assuming powers they do not have! (With aologies to any bureaucrats here -- If you own horses, you must be nice!;)).

We have ridden on Forestry Commission land before without problems so I was quite excited to hear there was a bridle way locally through one of the FC forests which would take me to the beach with hardly any need to ride on a public road.

A neighbour told me all I had to do was ask the FC for a key to the gate and all would be well.

So I duly found out who to contact and emailed him. Yes, I was told, that would be fine. Just complete an application form which he would email me and I'd get a key.

I downloaded the form and decided to hand it in to the correct person personally after completing it rather than posting it to save time. That's when things started to go wrong!

After a 20 mile trip to the office, I was told they could not print out the agreement for me to sign because their computers were down. And even if they could, the "agreement" would not commence until the 1st June. This is when I started to get angry. OK, that is only 11 days...but.....

I pointed out that, according, to a neighbour whose family have lived here for at least three generations, this is a bridle path. It is a hard metalled track. It is marked on the OS Plan as such, but in Scotland that is irrelevant. I thought access to FC woodland was free and unfettered? What's with these "application forms" and signing of "an agreement" with "access limited to a year" -- after which I have to re-apply? Why is there a padlock on the gate at all?

I am a local farmer and have lived here for over 30 years. I've a young pony that needs hacking out and the rider will be accompanied by another simply for safety reasons. There is definitely no commercial activity. What the heck is going on? What would you do?
 
Odd that one. I've had a great deal of Stalking ruined by hikers, despite the posted notices at access points to the hill, and all because there is a "Right to roam", in Scotland.

Considering the RTR, and the fact that with the exception of some shooting preserves, it's always been my understanding that ALL FC land is open to public access.

I too would be a little peeved.

Alec.
 
The Forestry Commission estate is in public ownership, but they do have to have regard to other members of the public. Walkers and bikers for example, don't mix with horses. Neither do car rallies. They also have to re-grade the tracks at regular intervals, and a permit system ensures that the demand is spread in terms of time and numbers (I used to work for them in Wales many many years ago and part of my job was issuing permits, having to have regard to conflicts of use. That job was later devolved to the local offices, so I guess staffing constraints and training are different.
BUT if the track is a public right of way, for horses etc as a bridleway, they are obstructing it if they have a locked gate across it. I'm not sure of Scottish law regarding rights of way, but your first step is to establish whether or not is is in fact a legal right of way. Then if it is, let them know they are acting unlawfully obstructing it. They are usually pretty sensitive to stuff like thata - if you can't get any joy locally, get in touch with HQ at Corstophine Road, Edinburgh.
 
If it's marked as a PROW on an OS map, it shouldn't be locked at all :confused:

Envious of your access to beach etc :mad:
 
I don't know about the law but I used to ride on FC land, I found a gap in the woods to get through! there was a wide enough gate way, if I put my legs up, but sometimes my mare wouldn't go through it.

the people that managed it used to see us and said we were okay to ride there but if the boss man saw us we were to just say we didn't know we couldn't ride in there!
 
Are you sure it's a public bridleway and not a permissive one? I know laws differ in Scotland, but down here, FC land is permit only (which nobody pays...). I've never been stopped, but if I was I'd argue that when they start to charge walkers and cyclists, I'd happily pay a permit. Until then...


Hope you get it sorted. We're not actually sure what the FC people do around here, as there's no evidence of THEM working, just the loggers which are contracted. Actually I'm quite happy that they do nothing!!
 
From what I can discover, they shouldn't be locking gates, let alone asking private non-commercial riders to sign on the dotted line and jump through hoops backwards. Or at least, if the want to lock gates, they have to provide some way horses and walkers can get through. I am pretty sure it is a right of way as the road is metalled all the way. Locals would have had access to the beach years ago. But that should be neither here nor there.

The problem is, if I make a noise about it, it might get listed as a recognised ride and everyone will be wanting to use it. JFTD is already threatening to come up from Essex!:D:D:D

There is meant to be free access to the Scottish countryside with various exceptions -- and FC is not one of them unless there are forestry activities like felling and extraction in progress. The legislation is the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003. Some landowners have chained gates and got into serious trouble for it.

I really get angry when petty officials start making up rules to suit themselves. If I could get the car to the gate, I'd be down with the generator and grinder making very small pieces of their chain and padlock!
 
I think they are on sticky ground in Scotland, the latest tactic is charging for parking trailers etc, but they certainly cant prevent access by horses as they have the same access rights as walkers in Scotland.

I would remind them of this. They can temporarily close routes for genuine safety reasons but that's all, but that's logging etc going on. They cannot decide on numbers quotas etc unless the same applies to all users (and then the other users will gang up and prosecute them and they will lose)

If they are ultimately unhelpful, you might consider returning their padlock to them (in pieces)
 
lachlanandmarcus said:
If they are ultimately unhelpful, you might consider returning their padlock to them (in pieces)
Click to expand...

Don't encourage him - he really will! :D

PeterNatt said:
It is my belief that Scotland does not have Public Rights of Way. Hence no Bridleways.
However Scotland does have the Right to Roam.
Click to expand...

I never knew that. I presumed Right to Roam was in addition to PROWs. Shows what I know, eh?!
 
PeterNatt said:
It is my belief that Scotland does not have Public Rights of Way. Hence no Bridleways.
However Scotland does have the Right to Roam.
Click to expand...

If you're right, and I suspect that you are, presumably, then with one act in place, there's no need for the other. ;)

D_R, in your shoes, I'd be back to that office tomorrow morning, and ask to see their authority for such decisions, as I suspect that you may! ;)

Alec.
 
JillA said:
The Forestry Commission estate is in public ownership, but they do have to have regard to other members of the public. Walkers and bikers for example, don't mix with horses. Neither do car rallies. They also have to re-grade the tracks at regular intervals, and a permit system ensures that the demand is spread in terms of time and numbers (I used to work for them in Wales many many years ago and part of my job was issuing permits, having to have regard to conflicts of use. That job was later devolved to the local offices, so I guess staffing constraints and training are different.
BUT if the track is a public right of way, for horses etc as a bridleway, they are obstructing it if they have a locked gate across it. I'm not sure of Scottish law regarding rights of way, but your first step is to establish whether or not is is in fact a legal right of way. Then if it is, let them know they are acting unlawfully obstructing it. They are usually pretty sensitive to stuff like thata - if you can't get any joy locally, get in touch with HQ at Corstophine Road, Edinburgh.
Click to expand...

Car raillies would be a valid reason for a one day closure on safety grounds but otherwise horses and walkers and cyclists mix quite happily on the majority of Scottish forestry routes and indeed other multi user tracks eg old railway lines and beaches and moorland tracks. Partly because unlike in England, horseriders have equal access rights to those of walkers.

It's not like in England where there are specific tracks horses can go on and nowhere else. In Scotland horses can access everywhere they can physically get, subject only to the same provisos as other users, no crop damage, not within curtilage of private house garden etc

Hence the reason permits are illegitimate in Scotland other than in terms of perhaps limiting the number of horse boxes parking so there is room for others to park, but there cannot be a permit system for just riding to and into the forests here, unlike elsewhere in the UK.
 
Originally Posted by lachlanandmarcus View Post

If they are ultimately unhelpful, you might consider returning their padlock to them (in pieces)
Click to expand...

JFTD wrote:

Don't encourage him - he really will!
Click to expand...

I was lying in bed this morning pondering the problem and think I can get the portable generator into the back of the Landrover and the LR down to the gate.... :D So watch this space!:)

I've had some particularly annoying communications with DEFRA over choked ditches over the last couple of years (which they said were fine resulting in my land and house flooding) so my tolerance levels with petty officials are about zero. Since the FC and DEFRA are lodged in the same building, I did discuss with one of the girls whether a can of petrol would bring light into their dismal little office world.... (It is only the price of the petrol that has put me off). Then, having considered the proposition, I concluded it is much more fun just to bate them!:D

As I've said, I could involve all the various organisations that look after our rights to roam (there are dozens!), but that might attract a lot of other users, so perhaps not such a good idea....I suppose burning down their offices might have a similar effect, so that's out too. Pity.

Thanks for all the replies. Good to know I am not being unreasonable!:D
 
Well, ten minutes after posting the above (7.30am) an email asking me to call the FC office flooded in.

I've had a profuse apology with an assurance that a key will be in the post today and there is no agreement to sign.

So, no fun at all. I don't know what's wrong with the bureaucrats these days. Can't get a decent fight out of 'em!:D

Ah well, I shall just have double my efforts with DEFRA over the flooding.... Who was it wrote, "Sport is where you find it"?:cool:
 
Dry Rot, very glad you seem to have it sorted!
Scotland does have Rights of Way, but there is not a definative map of these, as they can be aquired through prescription at any time, therefore a map would never be up to date. Although, Scotways (Scottish Rights of Way Society) does keep a register of some RoWs. The Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 would give you the right of (responsible!) access to the forestry commission land, regardless of any RoWs. If they have work operations or particular events taking place they are able to close off pulic access, but should apply for an Exempting Land From Access Rights Order to do this (by applying to Local Authority or Scottish Government).
Happy hacking!
 
Dry Rot said:
Well, ten minutes after posting the above (7.30am) an email asking me to call the FC office flooded in.

I've had a profuse apology with an assurance that a key will be in the post today and there is no agreement to sign.

So, no fun at all. I don't know what's wrong with the bureaucrats these days. Can't get a decent fight out of 'em!:D

Ah well, I shall just have double my efforts with DEFRA over the flooding.... Who was it wrote, "Sport is where you find it"?:cool:
Click to expand...

Good to hear that, they really ought to have a basic understanding of their obligations, ESP since on forestry tracks horseriding doesn't cause any issues re damage to surfaces compared with their own machinery.

Still not sure why a key should be involved either, but maybe that's a battle for another day, enjoy the riding!!!!
 
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