Access to yard - help

[blackcob]

I've just been subjected to a slanging match for 'ruining' someone's driveway, called 'a child with an attitude problem' and have been threatened with damage to my car. Your input would be appreciated...

Here's the setup. Myself and two other ladies are on DIY livery at the stables marked there. There's a small paddock behind but the alternate paddock, currently in use, is half a mile down the main road. It's a very small yard, three horses, four stables, tack room and a concrete pad. The owner has another much larger yard further down the road with a car park. The other two ladies live very close by in the village - one almost never drives over, except to bring bedding, and the other for some reason drives over all the time despite living literally next door.

At the start of every winter we are asked not to drive on the driveway to the stables wherever possible to try and preserve the surface (it's just packed hardcore, not tarmac, and gets the odd puddle). Apparently the people in the houses don't like it getting muddy. Fine, whatever - but obviously we have to use it occasionally to drive in bedding, feed and to receive hay deliveries. Also, when the horses are out in the other paddock we have to drive down to fill up water containers as the field doesn't have a supply. The alternative parking (the main road) is too far to carry things that heavy.

The YO mentioned it again to me last week as he'd had complaints that I was 'reversing in house #2's driveway', which is impossible as it is gated off but yes, I had driven down to the yard gate several times last week as I'd made a trip with bedding, a trip with bags of feed and my hay supplier had come down with ten bales of hay.

I drove down again this morning as I'd put my horse out in the alternate paddock and needed to fill up a water container to take out there. As I was getting back into the car I was accosted by the people in both houses (I use the word 'accosted' because they were very verbally hostile and, I think, if I hadn't had the dog in front of me one of them would have come and jabbed her finger in my chest, such was her ire ) who told me to stop reversing in their drives.

I pointed out that I hadn't, and in fact couldn't, as they were gated off, but that I needed to drive up and down the yard driveway to get to my horse. Both of them went off on one, including the phrases used above, and I eventually told them I wouldn't be engaging with them further after the 'attitude problem' comment - I felt I had been entirely reasonable in my responses up until that point but was not going to sit around and be called names.

I won't start too much on what a bunch of overprivileged middle class nothing-better-to-do types they presented themselves as today but you get my drift. I notice that they haven't picked on the other people who drive down there, only me - very young, with a very ratty car, who doesn't live in the village. But that's just me being cynical. Right?

I've left a message for the YO but any input from you guys would be appreciated before I have to go down this evening (I have run out of shavings so will have to drive down again, and I will have to be prepared for further confrontation it seems).

 

[benson21]

I would speak to YO about it, and point out your reasoning for driving down there. I would think its something for YO to sort as you are going to her land?

 

[Snowysadude]

Wow what total idiots - I would be finding out who has the rights over the driveway and if its shared between the yard and the two houses I would be telling them where to go ! But if not and its just the two houses be careful as they could just deny your access/use of the driveway! Just find out who owns it first and hope its not them .

 

[Booboos]

Poor you, how unpleasant! So glad you had the terrifying beastie with you to stand between you and these total *&&^^s !! I have to say that this would spoil my entire enjoyment of the horses and I would be looking to move, but I hate confrontation.

The only thing you can do is talk to your YO and strongly insist that he/she resolve this issue directly. You pay to have access to the yard and you should be able to do so unmolested by rather unpleasant types. Equally ask them to talk directly to the YO and don't engage with them at all.

Hope it all gets resolved, it sounds very unpleasant for you!

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

I'm assuming the drive is privately owned? If so, it's maintenance is the responsibilty of the home owners and your livery yard owner. Other drivers must use the drive including deliveries, friends & family etc so you are not wholly responsible for any wear and tear. Your yard owner should be the person discussing any issues regarding the drive with the neighbours.

 

[ThePony]

I agree, the ownership of the drive is the important part.
If it is equally owned between the house owners and the yard then they really need to swallow their issues. Any issue they have with people other than themselves using the drive really needs to be addressed to your yo - if your yo is running a business and part of that is that it is necessary for business users to use the shared road then it isn't your prob (although it is easier to say than to implement that when you have people giving you grief!!).
Stay calm and polite when you come across the house owners, but leave the yo to sort the problem. You are simply acessing a service you have paid for.

 

[quirky]

Either the stables were there before their houses or PP was submitted for the stables and the access issue would have been in that.

So, either way, they knew the set up and if they didn't like it, they shouldn't have moved there or tried to negotiate alternative access (if that was possible).

You did better than me, I'd probably have lost my rag with them .

How do you turn your car round? .... just out of interest .

 

[Meowy Catkin]

What a terrible situation for you to be in.

I would try to talk to the YO in person and try to calmly explain how frightened you were and that you don't want to upset anyone but that sometimes (when you are moving heavy things etc...) that you need to drive down the driveway. I would also explain that you don't turn in their driveways and ask the YO to solve the situation.

Any livery clients that the YO has will need to deliver hay etc... so the YO does need to sort this out.

 

[jsr]

It's not your problem let the YO sort it out and you carry on as normal until she tells you otherwise. They could be the owners of the driveway and the YO only have rights of access in which case there are legal implications so I'd keep quiet and let her sort it out.

 

[blackcob]

You did better than me, I'd probably have lost my rag with them .

How do you turn your car round? .... just out of interest .

It was a close run thing but me having a paddy and telling them exactly what I thought of them would only have confirmed their belief that I am a scumbag chav with attitude, innit.

The driveway is wide enough that I can do a three point turn by the yard gate to turn around, but since the YO mentioned the complaint I have gone through the gate and turned around on the concrete pad on our yard, just in case I am excessively wearing the driveway outside the yard gate.

To everyone who has mentioned the ownership of the drive - I'm not aware of any plans or deeds or anything except to say that it definitely privately owned, not a public road. I would expect that the YO along with the two house owners have a joint responsibility to maintain it, with the YO perhaps taking a larger share in maintenance due to having paying clients having access over it? Both houses have gates on their own driveways, off the main bit, so the part we have access over is clearly delineated.

I should also point out that we have been clients of the YO for seven years and on this particular yard for two years - there were no complaints the previous winter.

To the left hand side where I've marked 'gravel driveway' there is an ancient church which is currently undergoing repair which involves vans and plant machinery having access along the driveway also - I pointed this out to the people this morning but 'that is not the problem, you are, you come twice a day'.

 

[blackcob]

Poor you, how unpleasant! So glad you had the terrifying beastie with you to stand between you and these total *&&^^s !! I have to say that this would spoil my entire enjoyment of the horses and I would be looking to move, but I hate confrontation.

The terrifying beastie is bladdy useless in this respect but thankfully her pulling on the end of the lead wanting to jump up and lick people looks enough like aggression to put most people off.

I too hate confrontation and regard my time with my animals as a retreat from all the rubbish that 'real life' brings but issues like this just ruin it for everyone. There is no need for it, we are clean, quiet and considerate and the yard has been there with horses on for many, many years.

I have left a message for the YO, will see what he says. They have already dealt with him directly - he responded by reminding me not to drive down there unless necessary, I said that was reasonable but pointed out that it's necessary to drive on it three or four times a week for the reasons I gave above, he said that was fine and expected. So now they're taking it out on me.

 

[littlemisslauren]

The joy of a youthful appearance!!

If the diveway is shared then they can't stop you drivin down it, they cant expect you to haul bags of shavings and feed the length of the drive.

Borrow a 'posh' car and go to the yard with your OH. They wont say a word. These people just like to pick on younger women because they dont expect you to fight back.

YO should be sorting this out.

 

[jendie]

Isn't it amazing how much emotion things such as driveways and parking places can rouse?! When I lived in London I remember a neighbour being assaulted - he needed hospital treatment - for the sin of parking outside someone else's house!! People have been murdered for less.

This is a problem for the YO though. If the driveway in that mucky surely a load or two of cheap road chippings would solve the problem and keep the peace?

 

[Vixen Van Debz]

If that's the only driveable access to the yard then you have every right to use it AS OFTEN as you like. Can you imagine renting a house (much as you're renting somewhere to live for your horsey) and to NOT be allowed down the drive? To accept the requests of the neighbours is a courtesy, it is not a requirement. I would be fuming that I was going above and beyond and being shot down from it!

However, the path of least resistance is usually best - being on the neighbours good side is in everyone's interests, so I'd leave it with the YO and hope he/she reminds them that not driving often down the road is being both mannerly and respected, and that any issues arising should be dealt with to him/her directly, not to the clients (such as yourself). If the neighbours are that bothered then they should get their part of the path paved!

 

[blackcob]

The joy of a youthful appearance!!

If the diveway is shared then they can't stop you drivin down it, they cant expect you to haul bags of shavings and feed the length of the drive.

Borrow a 'posh' car and go to the yard with your OH. They wont say a word. These people just like to pick on younger women because they dont expect you to fight back.

YO should be sorting this out.

Isn't it amazing how much emotion things such as driveways and parking places can rouse?!

I know! How ridiculous. I am genuinely pleased for them that they have nothing better to worry about in their lives.

LML, I don't know if you recall but I posted in SB about a similar problem last year when I dared to park on the public road outside a neighbour's house on our street. I had to get the police involved in that one as the woman was pounding on our door all hours of the day and night, threatening to damage my car and having her big burly husband stand by my car in the mornings and hurl abuse at me.

Funnily enough they didn't do it to my boyfriend (a total wuss but a hairy bloke nonetheless, nice car) or my dad (BIG lad, ex forces, nice car) but did to a visiting female friend (small girl, cheap girly car).

It's even more ridiculous because the lane isn't that mucky at all, there's a couple of very shallow puddles but it's not potholed or anywhere vaguely near flooding, as it's drying up now it looks perfectly neat and tidy.

The vans coming and going to repair the church have cut access through the hedge to the churchyard and their reversing out has brought a bit of mud onto the driveway, which I observed house #1 hosing away with a pressure washer.

I don't get it, I really don't. From their reaction you'd think I was a troublemaking chav who was turning doughnuts in their driveways and crapping on their doorsteps. I am young, yes, but otherwise no different to the other two ladies who are clients there - except that I live in the next village over. Oh, and I'm poor.

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

The terrifying beastie is bladdy useless in this respect but thankfully her pulling on the end of the lead wanting to jump up and lick people looks enough like aggression to put most people off.

I too hate confrontation and regard my time with my animals as a retreat from all the rubbish that 'real life' brings but issues like this just ruin it for everyone. There is no need for it, we are clean, quiet and considerate and the yard has been there with horses on for many, many years.

I have left a message for the YO, will see what he says. They have already dealt with him directly - he responded by reminding me not to drive down there unless necessary, I said that was reasonable but pointed out that it's necessary to drive on it three or four times a week for the reasons I gave above, he said that was fine and expected. So now they're taking it out on me.

This may put the cat amongst the pigeons, but I think your yard owner is being unreasonable. I use a private, shared drive to my yard and if the yard owner gave me restrictions on usage, I would be mightly cheesed off. You pay for the use of the facilities, you need access to use those facilities. If all three neighbours clubbed together, not including the church owners, the drive could be fixed and not at considerable cost.

 

[Flummoxed]

Oh, and I'm poor.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head there! Could it be that your car is just "not classy enough"?


PS - Your avatar looks just like my boy, even down to the red rug!

 

[Santa_Claus]

The ownership of the driveway is important. It is very possible that the drive is owned by one party and right of access is granted to the others by way of an easement in the title deeds or that the drive is shared by all three parties by way of an original property being split into three. Also possible that various parts of the drive belong to different parties but without looking at the land registry details (you can actually do a property search for a small fee at www.landregistry.gov.uk ) you don't know for sure.

in terms of the situation though you need to be speaking to your YO about it the house owners should not be approaching you directly. I'm presuming as the YO has a second yard that the yard is correctly rated and has PP as a commercial rented yard as if not troublesome neighbours love to report such yards to the local council!

If they approach you again politely ask them to refer the matter to the YO who grants you access to his property.

 

[blackcob]

This may put the cat amongst the pigeons, but I think your yard owner is being unreasonable. I use a private, shared drive to my yard and if the yard owner gave me restrictions on usage, I would be mightly cheesed off. You pay for the use of the facilities, you need access to use those facilities. If all three neighbours clubbed together, not including the church owners, the drive could be fixed and not at considerable cost.

Y'know, in my head, I know you are right. However, I agreed to a compromise in order to not create bad feeling (that's worked, hasn't it?!) and because it's not too much of an inconvenience in the grand scheme of things.

The YO will not stump up any money for maintenance, I know he won't, but rather than get angry with him they are blaming me.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head there! Could it be that your car is just "not classy enough"?


PS - Your avatar looks just like my boy, even down to the red rug!

I think I am just not classy enough, lol! I tend to do early morning muckouts in wellies, an oversized hoodie covered in snot and hair and a bobble hat or unwashed and uncombed hair tied in a knot, I lost my home counties accent years ago and my car is a lovely but ancient Nissan Micra full of dog hair. Despite being Shropshire born and bred I'm obviously not the right sort.

She is a Welsh Cob and wears exclusively red or black rugs! I don't know her breeding but there's another one on here that's the spit of her, they must all have family in common.

 

[AmyMay]

I would simply speak to the YO and let him deal with it.

Obviously a gravel drive is going to deteriate really quickly with cars and horses going up it all the time - so I can to a degree understand their frustrations.

However, they should be speaking to the YO about solutions and not speaking to you about it - as you are powerless to make any improvements to the situation.

 

[blackcob]

I'm presuming as the YO has a second yard that the yard is correctly rated and has PP as a commercial rented yard as if not troublesome neighbours love to report such yards to the local council!

If they approach you again politely ask them to refer the matter to the YO who grants you access to his property.

Thanks for that, like I say I have no idea what the situation is with who owns what bit, am currently wrangling with the Land Registry site.

The main yard is all legit for sure, I am perhaps a little naive in assuming ours is too but I do expect it would have been reported by now if it wasn't, otherwise they wouldn't have put up with the traffic/muck heap/horse noises for so long.

Still awaiting a response from the YO but I will ask them to refer all further complaints to him.

 

[SusieT]

I would be very tempted to drive up every time I went to visit if they continued to complain, perhaps a sudden development of painful feet making long walking difficult (any more than mucking out/horse collecting sets it off, poor you!)?
I would not have agreed with YO to only use it 3/4 times a week personally but obviously that's your perogative for a quiet life. If it's going to be a commercial yard it has to be accessible by vehicle.
But before this I would establish who had ownership rights!
And if it continued to be a problem and made you dread going u p there I would move.

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

I think your YO has landed you right in it. He/she has been in discussion with the neighbours and I suspect, has stated that you have agreed to use the drive sparingly to minimize further damage. This is extremely unfair. It's your YO's responsibility and the owners of the properties using the drive to maintain it. I would not be happy. Your YO is passing the buck. If the neighbours approach you again with the intention to discuss the yard, refuse to enter into a discussion and refer them to the YO.

 

[blackcob]

blazingsaddles, I agree and I can see now that trying to be the better person and agreeing to a slight inconvenience in order to keep the peace I have in fact paved the way to be walked all over.

Still no word from YO. I drove down as normal this evening (had two bales of shavings to drop off) and not a peep but I imagine they were inside curtain-twitching and and on the phone to the YO.

I can easily see the YO saying that it's my fault and banning me from driving down there - as, yes, he immediately promised the householders that we would use it sparingly. God, I could really do without this.

 

[spotty_pony]

That's horrible! I can't believe they are so fussy over a driveway! I don't see what the problem is with driving down it everyday if there is only a few of you - it's not like it's a big yard or anything. I would have a word with YO and ask him to have a word with them. They have no right to talk to you like that. Hope you get it sorted soon!

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

blazingsaddles, I agree and I can see now that trying to be the better person and agreeing to a slight inconvenience in order to keep the peace I have in fact paved the way to be walked all over.

Still no word from YO. I drove down as normal this evening (had two bales of shavings to drop off) and not a peep but I imagine they were inside curtain-twitching and and on the phone to the YO.

I can easily see the YO saying that it's my fault and banning me from driving down there - as, yes, he immediately promised the householders that we would use it sparingly. God, I could really do without this.

I hate saying this, as I know the difficulty in finding half-decent yards, but I would now be in discussion with my fellow liveries discussing the YO's behaviour and coming up with a plan to get him in a tight spot. I'm not sure what that tight spot is at the moment, but give me time The YO has behaved appallingly towards you and comes across as a tight-fisted coward, with no regard for you.

 

[assuan]

It's easy PM me the address and I'll drive up and down it using my beaten up LWB Hi-top white bashed up van.

I'll stop just outside their drive for 10 minutes at a time, just to ensure that the current oil leak leaves a patch right where their car wheel will drive through.

Then I'll wait for them to come and say something to me.....

....this should take their mind off of you and forget about their petty grumbles

 

[jodie3]

It's easy PM me the address and I'll drive up and down it using my beaten up LWB Hi-top white bashed up van.

I'll stop just outside their drive for 10 minutes at a time, just to ensure that the current oil leak leaves a patch right where their car wheel will drive through.

Then I'll wait for them to come and say something to me.....

....this should take their mind off of you and forget about their petty grumbles

^^^^ this sounds a good idea to me!

Shared access is a nightmare, it always seems to end in tears!.

Sounds like the house owners need more to do with their time. But if they have threatened you with damage to your car then should that be reported to the police? Its not fair that they try to intimidate a young girl on her own. Could you get boyfriend or dad to come up with you and glare at them?

How about suggesting they hire a helicopter for you and you can fly in twice a day and not touch their beloved driveway??

There is a yard quite close to me who are in the middle of an access/repair dispute over the drive to the yard and the owner of the drive has actually locked the gate and the liveries have to walk up!

 

[blackcob]

I'll stop just outside their drive for 10 minutes at a time, just to ensure that the current oil leak leaves a patch right where their car wheel will drive through.

LOL - this is exactly what my dad suggested, only I can't afford to spare the oil at the moment.

Jodie, my big burly dad would leap at the opportunity to drive up and down it in his (nice) car and tell them exactly where to shove it but unfortunately he is in London and can't get up here very often. Big, hairy but wussy boyfriend has offered to come down with me but we work opposing hours so he can't be there every time I go down unfortunately (and having to take what is essentially a bodyguard with me is a bit ridiculous! ).

The words used were 'if you drive down here again, that car won't be worth driving' complete with stabbing finger in the air; I pointed out that if anything happened to the car I would be forced to get the police involved. I am amused that he is threatening me with damage to a car that is eighteen years old and already has a large dent in the rear panel (horse sat on it) but, y'know, it's the principle of the thing.

What do we reckon then, folks, do I drive down tomorrow or do I park on the main road? I have nothing to drop off or pick up tomorrow so it's not an inconvenience, assuming that the work vans aren't parked on the main road (they may well be in the morning but are gone by the second visit at 5pm).

 

[jodie3]

Well if you've got your ear plugs, tin hat and flak jacket not to mention slobbering hound ready then I would be an awkward git and drive down!