Access to your horses on a livery yard

[Honey08]

I think there should be give and take on both sides. A good yard should have reasonable opening hours (for example 6.30am to 9.30pm) and give access with prior arrangement if need be outside those hours (ie for shows or medical reasons). Then liveries should respect the privacy of the yard owner. I always jump if I hear horses go past at night, thinking something has got out, and would never relax.

The example in the first post is too OTT though!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

We-ell, if I chose to run a business from my home, I would expect to either have rules which not everyone will like, or to have my peace disturbed. Just as nobody is forcing us to livery on your yard, you aren't forced to run a yard from your home. It does work both ways and people are entitled to think your rules aren't great, if they choose not to livery with you.

Yes we appreciate not all will find that our yard will meet their needs (normally for other reason not our opening times). We accept that is life just like not all potential viewers want to adopt any cats in my care, we just think shame would be nice to have that nice person to join us or that nice place for xxx cat to go home too. There is always a home for everyone where one does not take another comes along and accepts.

I was speaking for the yards who have times owners are not allowed this was in debate and being frowned upon like we were doing something terrible and wrong. People when viewing are encouraged to see our rules and livery terms, they then can decide whether or not they are interested in coming. As of our starting this yard we have never had it was our opening time was the reason for not coming. This we know because the amount of inquiries we have and they fill a form in when they want to view the yard and they can see our terms on the website so it obviously does not turn many off.


As for running my business the whole reason why hubby brought this place for me is so I could run my own business from home. So you see I am forced to run my livery business here. When I decide I have had enough and don't want too he will be only too please to put this place on the market, the fact we don't make a big profit is always a discussion we have.

The fact that our closing time is 8.30pm is plenty late as usually our last livery leaves at around 7.30pm TOTALLY their choice. The only one ever given freedom was our Police lady livery who worked in London and could not get here early so she was an exception which I might add still applies if a new livery has a job which means she would not get here till later. We are not inhuman and will do our best to accommodate those with special needs.

Now I really think this thread should go back to OP and their comments about her yard being closed on part of Sunday's which is ridiculous when weekends is the sole time most owners can spend a whole day with their beloved horses.

 

[Jaycee]

Yep, was at a yard for some time without any restrictions, but when the tenant renting the yard left and the owner took over we were suddenly restricted to only being allowed to spend 3 hours a day (not including riding) at the yard! Moved yards soon after needless to say!

 

[el_Snowflakes]

- if I pay hundreds of pounds for the upkeep of my horse, I'd fully expect access when I wanted. And shops are open 24/7 - except on Sundays and Bank Holidays. Which is nice because people can have unrestricted access to whatever they want to spend their money on.

I think your missing the point. Yes, you may be paying hundreds of pounds but presumably a lot less than the cost of buying your own land/facilities. The YO doesn't pocket all your money as there are so many overheads so I can absolutely understand that they don't want visitors on their property using their electricity all night. Some YOs & their families also work other jobs/ have young kids etc. if your on a good yard, it's likely that the owner/manager has worked hard for the customer so is it really too much for a YO to be able to have a few hours private time? There are few similarities between running a yard at a family home to a shop with rotational staff & substantially larger (!) profit margins, one being - if you don't like the goods, you don't buy them!
If a shop stays open late/24 hr it generates increased custom. If a yard stays open late they will not be paid any extra to cover the extra bills incurred ie. electricity.

 

[DragonSlayer]

There was a yard we wanted to buy but couldn't due to it selling before we got our financial side completed, we had it all planned out.

No restrictions because OH said, hard cash buys what you want! What we HAD planned was that early arrivals could come via a locked side gate and same at night, main gate (good parking outside ) opening about 7 am unless someone was wanting to go to a show or coming back late, as long as you let people know, can't see the issue. If I had to get up to let a trailer/box in or out, fair enough.

We had even planned as the current owners of the time to have a sign up during set hours in the day not to be disturbed unless in emergencies, seemed to work well and they could see all coming and going, just gave then their privacy.

 

[DragonSlayer]

There was a yard we wanted to buy but couldn't due to it selling before we got our financial side completed, we had it all planned out.

No restrictions because OH said, hard cash buys what you want! What we HAD planned was that early arrivals could come via a locked side gate and same at night, main gate (good parking outside ) opening about 7 am unless someone was wanting to go to a show or coming back late, as long as you let people know, can't see the issue. If I had to get up to let a trailer/box in or out, fair enough.

We had even planned as the current owners of the time to have a sign up during set hours in the day not to be disturbed unless in emergencies, seemed to work well and they could see all coming and going, just gave then their privacy.

 

[Marydoll]

I wouldnt livery on a yard which restricted access to my horses.

 

[sarahann1]

I keep mine on a yard that opens at 7am and closes at 9pm. But if you have a show, or a vet related drama they are totally accommodating.

The OPs Sunday restrictions are a step to far for me however.

 

[PolarSkye]

I think it depends on the definition of "livery yard" . . . I can absolutely see that YOs/YMs of busy yards where they have a hands on role in the care and maintenance of the horses/equipment/yard on a day-to-day basis might want liveries off the yard between certain (reasonable) times so they can unwind, relax and be "off duty." I don't agree with the time restriction in the original post - surely most people would have MORE time to spend with their horses at the weekend so being restricted on a Sunday seems a tad draconian.

I also agree that (where possible - excluding competitions and illness) having quiet time for the horses is important . . . it's hell trying to box rest/rehab a horse who isn't happy about being in and is being continually disturbed at unsociable hours.

However, plenty of people keep their horses on tiny DIY yards where all they are essentially doing is renting a stable and some turnout. Surely, in such circumstances, the only real restriction in terms of access should be that which takes the privacy of anyone happening to live within earshot into consideration? As long as liveries who need to visit at odd hours give appropriate notice, do so quietly and considerately and clean up/lock up after themselves, what's the harm?

P

 

[char3479]

We-ell, if I chose to run a business from my home, I would expect to either have rules which not everyone will like, or to have my peace disturbed. Just as nobody is forcing us to livery on your yard, you aren't forced to run a yard from your home. It does work both ways and people are entitled to think your rules aren't great, if they choose not to livery with you.

This.

 

[quirky]

Unless it was for medical emergencies, or a late/early show, I wouldn't be crass enough to go down at any hour.
I wouldn't like somebody in my back garden at some ungodly hour of the night, I treat the yard as I would wish mine to be treated (not that I'd have one, some posters on here would have me running for the hills!)

Having said that, the restrictions in the OP would be too inhibitive for me and I wouldn't/couldn't board my horse there.

 

[char3479]

Yes we appreciate not all will find that our yard will meet their needs (normally for other reason not our opening times). We accept that is life just like not all potential viewers want to adopt any cats in my care, we just think shame would be nice to have that nice person to join us or that nice place for xxx cat to go home too. There is always a home for everyone where one does not take another comes along and accepts.

I was speaking for the yards who have times owners are not allowed this was in debate and being frowned upon like we were doing something terrible and wrong. People when viewing are encouraged to see our rules and livery terms, they then can decide whether or not they are interested in coming. As of our starting this yard we have never had it was our opening time was the reason for not coming. This we know because the amount of inquiries we have and they fill a form in when they want to view the yard and they can see our terms on the website so it obviously does not turn many off.


As for running my business the whole reason why hubby brought this place for me is so I could run my own business from home. So you see I am forced to run my livery business here. When I decide I have had enough and don't want too he will be only too please to put this place on the market, the fact we don't make a big profit is always a discussion we have.

The fact that our closing time is 8.30pm is plenty late as usually our last livery leaves at around 7.30pm TOTALLY their choice. The only one ever given freedom was our Police lady livery who worked in London and could not get here early so she was an exception which I might add still applies if a new livery has a job which means she would not get here till later. We are not inhuman and will do our best to accommodate those with special needs.

Now I really think this thread should go back to OP and their comments about her yard being closed on part of Sunday's which is ridiculous when weekends is the sole time most owners can spend a whole day with their beloved horses.

Poor you - running a business from home, what a chore. Just FYI, most people are up stupidly early and have a lengthy commute and don't get home until late following a lengthy commute home, and have to work of an evening, and have children to look after and don't have an 'other half' to buy them a business and make no money at all. So please stop mewling about how tough your life is because you awful customers might dare to want to see their beloved horses when you don't want them to because it might disturb you watching Eastenders. Also, respect the fact that I have a point which I am fully entitled to and you are being aggressive in your response to me because you don't like it. That isn't how you have a grown-up, intelligent debate about an issue and actually you sent this thread off on a tangent because you didn't like people daring to challenge the fact that livery yards have 'kerfews'(sic). I, unlike you who went into a diatribe about how terrible your life is, simply posted my opinion about the OPs dilemma. Take it out on someone else, love.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

I'm fascinated by the yards that ban owners until 7am. Surely, most people turn up by 6ish to either muck out or ride ?

I think it's unacceptable to block owner's access to their horses and usually YO's have a private garden and home anyway.

 

[char3479]

I think your missing the point. Yes, you may be paying hundreds of pounds but presumably a lot less than the cost of buying your own land/facilities. The YO doesn't pocket all your money as there are so many overheads so I can absolutely understand that they don't want visitors on their property using their electricity all night. Some YOs & their families also work other jobs/ have young kids etc. if your on a good yard, it's likely that the owner/manager has worked hard for the customer so is it really too much for a YO to be able to have a few hours private time? There are few similarities between running a yard at a family home to a shop with rotational staff & substantially larger (!) profit margins, one being - if you don't like the goods, you don't buy them!
If a shop stays open late/24 hr it generates increased custom. If a yard stays open late they will not be paid any extra to cover the extra bills incurred ie. electricity.

Ah yes, they are great charities, these livery yards. I am well aware of overheads and profit margins and the stress and hard work that running a livery yard entails. I don't feel sympathy for yard owners because they chose their profession and, frankly, as hard work as it is, I think it's a fantastic privilege to spend all day with horses. Lots of people spend all day working hard for other people's profit and to run your own business is something some people can only aspire to.
BTW You actually made the 'shop' comparison, not me. So no, I'm not missing the point at all.

 

[Goldenstar]

I think there are good reasons for having a finish and start time when the YOer lives on site .
That way if they hear something at ten pm they know it's not right and not just a livery .
Apart from that most people have horses to use them and need access to them to do that.
I do think it's reasonable to have times where you don't bother the YOer unless it an emergency if they live on site .
Say Sunday afternoon or after a certain time in the evening .

 

[Blurr]

.
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As for running my business the whole reason why hubby brought this place for me is so I could run my own business from home. So you see I am forced to run my livery business here. When I decide I have had enough and don't want too he will be only too please to put this place on the market, the fact we don't make a big profit is always a discussion we have.

The fact that our closing time is 8.30pm is plenty late as usually our last livery leaves at around 7.30pm TOTALLY their choice. The only one ever given freedom was our Police lady livery who worked in London and could not get here early so she was an exception which I might add still applies if a new livery has a job which means she would not get here till later. We are not inhuman and will do our best to accommodate those with special needs.

Now I really think this thread should go back to OP and their comments about her yard being closed on part of Sunday's which is ridiculous when weekends is the sole time most owners can spend a whole day with their beloved horses.

I'm astounded that anyone who has a husband able to buy their wife a yard so that they are able to run a livery business from home is saying they are 'forced' to do so! Presumably you could have said "no thanks love, I'd rather work in an office".

As for opening restrictions, since most of us work in order to keep our horses, which I think is quite a well known fact, if the yard offers diy the hours it's open really do need to be in the region of 6am to 9.30pm since an 8hour stint in the office takes 9 hours if you include the obligatory 1 hour lunch (inflexible in most offices) plus travelling time, up to say 1.5 hours each way, makes a working day 12 hours long and then horses either side of that. And the pay from that may not be sufficient for full or even part livery so if that's not an option a yard that wants to be open in 'office' hours, or even to 7.30pm is not an option for most full time workers.

Usually yards manage to find liveries and liveries manage to find yards that suit. It's swings and roundabouts.

I'm surprised any yard that wants to close on Sundays afternoons has clients, that's bizarre. As is being told you can't see your horse on a Monday.

 

[mudmudmud]

We are asked to aim to not be on the yard before 8am where possible (exceptions are made for work and shows, ect) and no later than 8pm (again same exceptions apply) The YO lives on site and has a young daughter so I think it is perfectly reasonable really, considering she's not overly strict upon enforcing these rules as long as she is notified.

 

[Bosworth]

i had a livery yard, and I put a restriction on it. 6.30am to 9pm in winter and 10pm in summer. And the reasonable people accepted it. The unreasonable people left. Result

Every one had a contract they signed, and the reasonable people read it, liked it and adhered to it. The unreasonable people could not be bothered to read it, but still signed it and ignored it. I realised that unreasonable people are selfish, stupid and inconsiderate of all others, whether human, or equine. They wanted everything their way, they were the most important and no one else mattered.

My yard was secure, safe, with well managed grazing and all year turnout. But still I had people who put their own personal needs ahead of their horses. They would go home after work, have their dinner, watch TV relax, and at 11pm they would turn up and finally feed their horse, who had been brought in by another livery as another of our rules was no horse left on its own in a field. That poor horse had no tea, had not been mucked out and was generally treated badly. I would frequently get a call at 9pm, asking me to muck him out and feed him, as they had been out for a meal.

So the unreasonable person was asked to leave............ and guess what, they called me unreasonable for having a closing time.

I would happily let people arrive earlier and leave later and would personally stay up all night with the owner if a horse needed it ( hell I even put my camper van in a stable so the owner could sleep next door to their sick horse)............ but I only did that for the reasonable people, so if you find our YO is being unreasonable ............. have a look at your own behaviour. A good YO is on alert 24/7 but its hard enough looking after other people's horses, without having to put up with unreasonable liveries.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

It was your comment

A livery yard is a profitable business and the customer's wishes should be accommodated. If you're paying a huge amount to keep your horse there.

That made me and others comment about you think owning a yard is highly profitable and I used my instance as an example. It was not meant to blow a trumpet or such petty return comments about my yard personally.

Then YOU commented

. you should be allowed access whenever you wish, regardless of whether their house is next door.

Which Some of us took as your dig at us for having opening times and we were wrong , why say something like this where it will irritate those who have opening times and they are bound to comment and your surprised when we return comment and explain and justify why we have opening and closing times.

Yes you have a choice and a view I respect everyone has different needs for their horses , no one is debating that as I said numerous times its up to each Y/O what rules they have, its up to customers where they livery their horses and if they accept them.

what you should have said is IMO I think we should have access to our horses all the time, not you SHOULD be allowed, like If we don't we bad or wrong.



sorry O/P we have Hijacked your thread, i hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Agree with "Bosworth" above.

As a YO I live on site, and with a previous livery (who left after a month thank god) we had a situation where she went away for the weekend, we didn't know where, had no contact details, and her "Friend" who was supposed to be looking after the pony, didn't show up, and he was shut in the stable banging the place apart - Guess Who had to see to it; going in to a strange pony who'd gone absolutely psycho from being cooped up wasn't funny, but the poor thing wouldn't have had any food or water had I not done so. THEN the "friend" turned up at 10pm obviously having just been via the pub - with boyfriend smoking all over the yard who got @ssy when he was asked not to do so - and were surprised when they didn't get the red carpet rolled out for them!

Which is why YO's who also live on the place have had to introduce rules about access to the yard.

I'm lucky in that currently I've got a mega-considerate livery (lucky me!) who always tells me if they're going to be leaving early for a show and/or coming back late, so we know what's happening if we hear noise in the yard at strange times. But if you've ever been in a situation where you're a YO and then someone takes the P!ss out of your good nature, then that's when "rules and regulations" have to be introduced, for the fairness of everyone. If YO lives on site then it should be understood that there are advantages of this, i.e. someone is always there if there's an emergency, plus the benefit of added security - but YO's are only human and need peace and quite too and I can understand that on bigger yards this need for YO's to have "space" is paramount.

But at the end of the day there is a thing called free choice. When I've been a punter on a livery yard in past years, then I've had to adhere to the access requirements of the yard, and had to fit in with their hours of access - basically if you don't like what's offered and it doesn't suit - then the punter has the liberty to somewhere else!

 

[ribbons]

This thread has reminded me (not that I was ever in danger of forgetting) why I no longer have liveries. Instead, my lovely spare boxes stand empty.
I often have people begging me for livery, lovely big boxes in a huge airy barn. Superb well fenced grazing. Sadly, its always a big fat NO.
My own horses, including mares and foals and my enjoyment of them comes first.
I'm well aware there are lovely owners out there, who would be over the moon to be able to keep there horse here and would be very respectful. There are also plenty, shouting the odds, demanding to use my home as if its their own, with none of the responsibility.
I had one group of people who used my home for their socialising. They would sit chatting and drinking coffee on the benches and tables I provided, dragging out their jobs until 10 or 11 at night in the summer. It was nicer than going home
No thanks. I decided to leave boxes empty a few years ago, and that's how they'll stay.
Some of you need to remember, you want a horse and have nowhere to keep it. There will be rules if you rent other people's facilities.
I've worked dammed hard for years to be able to own my yard. I'm certainly not having anyone tell me they can rock up any time they like because they pay me a few quid a week.

Having said all that, to deny access on Sunday afternoon is pretty unreasonable.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I'm astounded that anyone who has a husband able to buy their wife a yard so that they are able to run a livery business from home is saying they are 'forced' to do so! Presumably you could have said "no thanks love, I'd rather work in an office".

As for opening restrictions, since most of us work in order to keep our horses, which I think is quite a well known fact, if the yard offers diy the hours it's open really do need to be in the region of 6am to 9.30pm since an 8hour stint in the office takes 9 hours if you include the obligatory 1 hour lunch (inflexible in most offices) plus travelling time, up to say 1.5 hours each way, makes a working day 12 hours long and then horses either side of that. And the pay from that may not be sufficient for full or even part livery so if that's not an option a yard that wants to be open in 'office' hours, or even to 7.30pm is not an option for most full time workers.

Usually yards manage to find liveries and liveries manage to find yards that suit. It's swings and roundabouts.

I'm surprised any yard that wants to close on Sundays afternoons has clients, that's bizarre. As is being told you can't see your horse on a Monday.

What you say is true about work hours and traveling and yes if your job is miles away and by the time you return its late, then yes you need to find a yard who has no restrictions or allows you to come later than the agreed closing time which is what we do. If the yard is a DIY yard then of course an owner has to come up as soon as they can after work and muck out etc after their long day at office. Some yards do have opening and closing times for what ever the reason and yes if you are told this when viewing then you choose to go or not.
Sounds like Op's yard is un reasonable to close the yard on a Sunday when a lot of shows and other events are on a Sunday. This sounds like the OP should re think if they want to stay there, I would not if its day time restriction, IMO I think the only day time restriction is if a horse is being PTS and in respect your asked not to be at the yard during this time.

 

[Smogul]

Am I the only person who prefers a yard to have stated opening and closing times, for security reasons? Yard gates are locked overnight so if YO hears any hoof or vehicle noises outside opening times, he and family will react. Exceptions for competitions or illness are easily made by arrangement.
I would not be happy with the restriction on Sunday afternoons.

 

[Charlie007]

I have never been on a yard that had restrictions and I really wouldn't want to be. I looked at a yard last year but it didn't open til 7am. I have ridden by then and am just leaving for work at 7 so would have been no good for me.

 

[JennBags]

Am I the only person who prefers a yard to have stated opening and closing times, for security reasons? Yard gates are locked overnight so if YO hears any hoof or vehicle noises outside opening times, he and family will react. Exceptions for competitions or illness are easily made by arrangement.
I would not be happy with the restriction on Sunday afternoons.

Our yard gates are always locked up when the last person leaves around 5-6pm; but if people want to come later, they just unlock them and re-lock them when they go. We're all responsible adults, so it's not a problem.

I'm surprised at how many people on DIY think that opening at 6 or 6.30am is acceptable - when I had 2 horses I would quite often be at the yard at 5am to do them! Now I just have the one, on work-days I'm there about 6am - and there are always 2-3 other liveries already there - so we would all be stuffed if we had a 6.30 curfew. We don't have a YO living on site though - and I can see why that would make a difference; but I wouldn't be able to be on a yard with restrictive opening hours.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

This thread has reminded me (not that I was ever in danger of forgetting) why I no longer have liveries. Instead, my lovely spare boxes stand empty.

Are you me? :biggrin3:

TBH, I could never give a stuff when people arrived in the mornings etc as I am at yard by 6am on work mornings.

Occasionally I miss the company (on very rare occasions) but otherwise love going into the yard to find it as I left it

 

[Suzie86]

Yard I'm on now, the only downside is it shuts at 7. In the winter that was fine but it seems to be the same in summer too. I don't get there til 6, so no proper riding in the week for me

I did know about it before I moved there obviously but everyone sort of said it's a lot more relaxed through the summer etc, maybe it is and maybe I just need to ask the question, but certainly the YO appears still at 7pm to lock up!

I'm moving yards soon anyway as moving house further away otherwise I would have to man up and chat with the YO to see if anything can be done. Problem is it's just me! No one else on the yard seems to ride in the evenings or those that do are down much earlier.

It's a shame as it's an otherwise fantastic yard, just not suited to people who work the 9-5.30 I guess!

 

[Leg_end]

My view on this is that if you are on a private yard, in close proximity to someone's home, then you should expect some form of curfew or impose one yourself. Out of the ordinary early/lates should be allowed but I would always let YO know if I was going to be creeping around!

If I had liveries at home I definitely wouldn't want them there before 7 or after 8 unless there was separate access and their comings and goings had no impact.

 

[ihatework]

The yard I'm on is a mixed DIY /part/full yard and has as a general rule of thumb 7am-8pm opening times. They are however not hitlers about it and if you run over a little or need access due to shows that is fine.

I could never be on a yard that prevented access on a particular day. Sunday afternoon closure is the most bizarre thing I have ever heard!!

 

[armchair_rider]

It isn't so nice for the people who have to work anti-social hours (including Christmas Day and Boxing Day in some cases, never mind bank holidays) or the people who have a supermarket built near them and have to put up with the noise and disruption.

Oh good lord - it was a flippant response to a previous comment - didn't wish to start an entirely separate debate.

I've re-written this post five times but it still sounds horribly accusatory. It isn't meant to, i'm trying to make more of a general point rather than aiming at anyone in particular. I'm going to apologise to you now char3479 because this is likely going to come across as a personal attack and it really isn't meant to.

It isn't a separate debate. Either you (you as in the post reader rather than char3479 specifically) think that other people's businesses - and by extension their lives (and often the lives of their neighbours) - should revolve around what's convenient for you or you don't. Or you accept that you can only live your life as you choose to because other people make sacrifices in terms of working hours, income or time off to allow you to do so and you treat them with due respect - and that includes abiding by the opening hours of the place you've chosen to keep your horse.