Accetable or Cruel???

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Spellbound

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Hi Guys
Am astonished at what some horse owners will do to punish their ned for doing something wrong.
Recently witnessed an owner kicking her youngster several times in the gut for lashing out with a hind leg (rather half hearted lash at that)
Said ned grunted in pain and pulled back so violently it broke loose.
Owner turned to the yard saying "If they kick out kick back they won't do that again in a hurry"
Sorry to say this behaviour is down right disgusting never should a horse be treated like that.
Train them to have respect by all means. Kicking and biting a horse back for any thought of aggression is pointless in my opinion and will either make them nervous of human contact or resentful and nasty.
Just appalls me that for some owners this is the norm surely I am not a minority thinking this is outlandish and cruel?????
 
I had an incident with my two year old that was similar. He was tied up on the yard and as two year olds do he was jittering about and the guy who was due to back him gave him such a punch in the ribs the horse stumbled. Needless to say I was less than impressed but although I moved him to someone who knew what he was doing the damage was done. The horse doesn't trust and is now a field ornament. I have since found out you don't mess with breeding like his as they fight back so a disaster all round.
 
Bloody cruel if you ask me!
There was a youngster at our yard for a few weeks and if he barged the owner she thought it was perfectly acceptable to ask to borrow my broom and then whack her horse really hard in the side with it!
I'm not stiring but I actually found she was a member on here and have read her posts and theres a few comments on 'making a horse respect you'.
 
I might be going against the grain here but if a horse kicks it could potentially KILL someone, I know two people who have had their faces reconstructed after being kicked. Considering what horses do to each other, I wouldn't hesitate to kick him if he kicked out.

Better than him getting away with it and doing it next time as a child walks past....
 
Cruel. I had a youngster who was fidgeting when she had her feet done on the stand. Not naughty, just 'don't want to do that' He punched her heavily on the nose. I was so flabbergasted I didn't know what to do.
Needless to say I have another farrier, she stands as good as gold but there is no way she will allow a stand anywhere near her without feaking out
I think the horse has made her own mind up about whether it is cruel or acceptable!
 
Totally unnacceptable - perhaps her time would have been better spent trying to work out why the horse lashed out in the first place. Horses won't do that for no reason.
 
The punishment certainly sounds excessive compared with the crime. In my view a reprimand must be given instantanously and be commensurate with whatever the horse has done. In this instance I would probably have thumped the horse with my hand or growled at it, but not a lot more.

That said I had a stroppy 2 year old a few years ago who figured out that turning her bum on other horses made them get out of her way. Unbeknown to me she started doing it to the lady who helps me and found it equally effective. It only came to light when I was out poo picking and said youngster swung her bum and let fly with both hind legs. I hit her hard on the bum with the flat of my shovel. Was that cruel? Horsey certainly thought so, but never ever ever did it again
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Totally depends on the horse and the situation, and in this case it does sound excessive. I have to say though that if I had been able to kick my horse back when he did this to me a few weeks ago I certainly would have done!

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I would never tell a horse off by trying to inflict pain or win with strength, which it seems is what this person tried to do. But if a horse kicked out with intent, then it would get a definate telling off. It just isn't acceptable for a horse to act in that way and I would tell it that. Though I find a stern no or oi gets the message across perfectly well with my two if they are taking the mick. They must know its wrong as so much pushy horse behaviour could be potentially very dangerous. I would never kick them or punch them, a hard slap I'm not above though very occacionally if they really are pushing their luck and being too ckeeky. They will be told nicely once, but if they repeat rude and dangerous behaviour, then they will be told less nicely, usually with a slap to the shoulder and stern words - most certainly wouldn't hurt them though!!!
So, I would say not acceptable. (after my essay!)
 
I have to say, I don't like the kicking in the belly habit. However...............as a very newly arrived four year old, C bit my 11yr old daughter,quite nastily. She immediately sunk her teeth into the end of his nose, which at the time I thought was very quick witted, especially as she was in some pain (glue needed to repair the hole in her head!) ! Rightly or wrongly, her view was that, if he had been in the field,he would have been put in his place, which is exactly what she did. He has never bitten her since, and follows her round like a puppy. Those of us who have never bitten him, five years on, still have to keep an eye on what his teeth are doing!
 
My 5 year old took exception to his white socks being washed prior to a show- he lashed out at me......I shouted at him and smacked his bum/thigh. He hasn't done it since.

But....it is important to nip it in the bud....this is a childs pony we're talking about and I would rather it be me kicking him once than him kicking my 6 year old daughter in the head......
 
cruel and ott. I must admit If a youngster (a confident one) kicked out and was pushing the bounderies he'd immediately have a strong whack with my hand and I'd shout to get the message across, I'd rather do that than have a young horse thinking it's ok to kick at people etc. The kicking done by the owner you're refering to is definetly going way to far
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I have been known to kick a horse I am afraid! Said horse was rearing at me and trying to get me with her front legs (not a horse I owned!). She got a swift knee in the ribs which brought her down to the ground quickly, but certainly wouldnt have "inflicted pain" on her, just a short shock. Look at horses in the field, how do they tell each other off?! I dont believe in repeatedly kicking a horse in the gut, that is senseless and unnecessary, nor is hitting a horse round the head EVER acceptable, but mine have certainly had the occasional slap or elbow to get them out of my space. Kicking isnt acceptable, and be treated as such, but punishment should never be out of anger
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Totally unnacceptable - perhaps her time would have been better spent trying to work out why the horse lashed out in the first place. Horses won't do that for no reason.

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Yes of course. When a horse tries to kick me I always find myself asking "why would the horse do that? I really must ask him after I repair my broken arm/leg/skull"

I don't care WHY a horse thinks it can kick, it probably has a very legit answer ie "I don't like you picking my feet" or, "My tummy aches" or "There's a fly on my left arse cheek"...
 
I totally agree that a horse kicking out is not acceptable and they do need to taught the error of their ways.
I say taught as horses test what they can and can't get away with. It does depend on the horse as to how you tell them off.
But afraid I don't agree with kicking a horse in the gut or any part of their body with intent, anger or punishment.
I don't see how kicking a horse in such a way teaches them anything.
 
Well if you spend a little time watching horses in the field, you'll see how horses teach each other. Maybe that will ched a little light for you on how horses are used to being taught..
 
As a person who has had to have maxiliofacial surgery thanks to a kick. I am off the mind that a horse kicking me can kill me, me kicking a horse will do bugger all...

I have bitten horse back when they have bit me and it does work, the horse in question never bit again.

That doesnt mean I condone beating a horse senseless. But sometme a short sharp repremand is needed.

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Lou x
 
TBH, I think I would struggle to get my leg up there!

I did know a pony who had worked out if tack arrived stand with bum facing people and threaten and occasionally kick. You didn't go into her stable without suitable attire and a stick in your hand. She got much much better, in the end she would only threaten on the odd occasion where a swing of the bridle to the posterior area was enough for her to say ok and turn round for you to tack her up. She had just been incorrectly handled in the past and turned into a really sweet pony most of the time.

I think I kicked one small pony in the belly once when I was very young and I would not do it again, I felt awful afterwards. Though I am not adverse to correcting them with a smack if I think it is appropriate, if mine were to threaten to kick he would be getting an immediate wallop on his butt as it is unacceptable behaviour (and he is 16 so should know that by now)
 
Oh Nailed, OUCH!

I have watched horses at length in the field, biting each other, kicking out - all in play and have come to the distinct decision that horses are a lot tougher than we think and can withstand and not feel a great deal, if they bite and kick in play imagine what they do to each other when they mean it.
 
I personally would never kick a horse in the guts having seen the damage a mis aimed kick can do to the area under their belly.

BUT I would have given it a rather sharp smack for lashing out. Legs stay on the ground unless asked to be lifted or they are being lifted in a purely vertical motion due to flies. Legs coming out in any other direction for any reason what so ever is totally and utterly unacceptable.

Biting is totally unacceptable too and I would slap a horse for even trying to bite me and I wouldn't keep one that didn't learn not to.
 
I believe it is very dependent on the horse/pony. I know I only have to shout or growl angrily to Jerry and he will know he has done wrong. I did once ride a young shire x tb who needed a more physical approach to discipline although I only believe that should take place when it is VERY immediate and more to shock rather than to inflict pain.
 
If it was kicking out with intent to get the person behind it/near it, then yes by all means I would either kick it back or it would at least get a sharp telling off.
My mum has a disfigured finger from when my welsh had a strop and kicked her, breaking her finger/hand. He'll still try to swing his bum round at you if he gets cross- if I'm riding him I will admit he gets a smack for it and told to get on. Not a hard one but enough to make him re-consider, as at the end of the day, that's dangerous.
My mums mare pulls faces alot and will often go to bite. If she does happen to actually bite she pulls away as she knows she's done wrong, a sharp no and maybe a slap across the muzzle is all she's ever needed.
But if it was half hearted I wouldn't say it would warrant a full blown attack. There's never any need to really hurt the horse- they'll always be stronger than you anyway, just make your point I find is enough- over time they soon learn!
 
Indeed horses do kick each other but that is normally the last straw.
They don't go straight in all hooves blazing, there are loads of warning signs first, before kicking starts.
I did say that if a horse is being naughty then it needs to be reprimanded.
For me kicking a horse several times in the gut is wrong. I don't agree that you can cause no damage to a horse. Steel toe capped boots, and enough force to senstive gut area could cause injuries how ever unlikely.
Of course a horse can cause far more damage to a person than us to them, so they need to be taught to behave and accept things done round their legs without reacting.
 
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If my horse kicked out at me I wouldn't kick her in the gut. I would, however, raise my voice, shout and smack her on the arse.

I can count the number of times I've had to do this on one hand, and I've had her for five years.
 
Both mine understand no!, Frank can be nippy at shows (mainly indoor SJ when we are waiting) I know to be careful about it now but I wouldn't hit him for it unless he went really hard, a stern no does the trick, he has never bitten anywhere else.

The other, she chews lead ropes, I can growl her name through the kitchen window and she will stop it even when I can be of absolutely no threat to her being in another building (this always makes me giggle!)
 
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moved the goal posts...

steel toe caps are a diffrent story.

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Apologies nailed for any confusion I wasn't stating that as fact as in this instance I don't know if owner does or doesn't
Was more trying to say that kicking can cause injury to a horse as some owners wear them, and if that is the case then it suerly goes beyond a reprimand and borders abuse.
 
A sharp smack, yes, but booting it repeatedly in the belly is downright cruel. A mare will discipline her foal but quickly and with only as much force as is necessary - what on earth did that teach the poor horse? Nothing other than to fear people and possibly become shy in the future. I think a quick smack or a pinch (for biting) and a "growl" are plenty.
 
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