ACL injury?

Birker2020

Birker2020

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Our 11yr old beagle bitch suddenly went lame over the weekend on a walk over fields when visiting my retired horse. No yelp or anything, she's happy to jump on the bed and go up and down the stairs although we are trying to prevent her doing so.

She was trotting over some very flat ground when she suddenly held her paw in the air and was very lame. We carried her a way but she's quite heavy so she had to walk most of the way.

We rested her all day yesterday, gave her 1/2 paracetamol morning and last night.

I'm going to try to get her to the vets today and possibly start a claim in case it is an ACL.

It's her left front leg. We had xrays on her other front leg in around March/April 2023 when she suddenly went lame in very similar circumstances. Xrays showed slight changes in elbow but she was not sore on palpitation over that area. She soon became weight bearing and went back to normal. It happened again, I seem to remember that time there was a grass seed.

Photos show field surface and previous xray of opposite elbow.

She's slightly circumducting the limb in motion and when stood (as photos). I've palpated the whole leg from pads, toes, joints, tendons, shoulder, felt for heat/swelling and I'm lost. Obviously I'm not a vet which is why she's off there, but ours is a referral vets and it's very, very expensive so going to have to give through insurance.

Is it likely to be an ACL injury?
 

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Ha ha, no it's not ACL. I know now.

She's sprained/strained it and like me the vet couldn’t find any sore areas.

She was very lame yesterday, but coming to the vets today, whilst in the waiting room her lameness got a lot better and the shaking of fear got worse! Think it's the adrenalin that made her appear better although you could still see it.

I showed the vet the video from yesterday where she was very lame and she thought she'd easily find soreness but she didn't!

She said no ACL in front leg! ☺️

Sometimes google is misleading. I must have just found a rubbish link!

She's on metacam for a week with paracetamol, two or three short walks a day on the lead. No off lead for a few weeks. Can't believe how lame she was as to how she is now. Only cost £119 too 🙄

Glad it's nothing serious but wonder how we will manage her especially with partners knee op and me back at work. Vet said she won't need crating but she will need to not jump up and down furniture/ stairs etc.
 

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Glad it is nothing too serious and glad someone else clarified about ACL as I thought I was going mad!

I know you aren't going to want to hear this but it is genuinely said with the best of intention for the dog and I am not getting at you, I promise, but I would again suggest really taking those nails down if you haven't already, as it will affect how she distributes her weight and make lameness more likely if she is avoiding putting her full weight down (I avoid putting weight on my big toe due to arthritis and it has made a real mess of my own gait), also if she catches them on something, if she is on carpet and grass all the time they will not be wearing down naturally, I would also want a few pounds off her as well, I know it's really difficult with Beagles but sometimes we have to do what is best, it will really help her in the long run. I do know how hard it is, I lost a dog aged only 11 and his nails and foot conformation were the cause of a lot of his lameness issues as he got older, my surviving old dog is 14 and at this stage I will do anything to keep him healthy and sound, even if it means he hates me temporarily.
A few small things could also save you lots of expensive vet consults in the long run.

A bit philosophical for a Monday morning but sometimes when we love a dog (or a person!!) we have to do things that they don't like, for their own good.
 
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CorvusCorax said:
Glad it is nothing too serious and glad someone else clarified about ACL as I thought I was going mad!

I know you aren't going to want to hear this but it is genuinely said with the best of intention for the dog and I am not getting at you, I promise, but I would again suggest really taking those nails down if you haven't already, as it will affect how she distributes her weight and make lameness more likely if she is avoiding putting her full weight down (I avoid putting weight on my big toe due to arthritis and it has made a real mess of my own gait), also if she catches them on something, if she is on carpet and grass all the time they will not be wearing down naturally, I would also want a few pounds off her as well, I know it's really difficult with Beagles but sometimes we have to do what is best, it will really help her in the long run. I do know how hard it is, I lost a dog aged only 11 and his nails and foot conformation were the cause of a lot of his lameness issues as he got older, my surviving old dog is 14 and at this stage I will do anything to keep him healthy and sound, even if it means he hates me temporarily.
A few small things could also save you lots of expensive vet consults in the long run.

A bit philosophical for a Monday morning but sometimes when we love a dog (or a person!!) we have to do things that they don't like, for their own good.
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Appreciate your comments CC.

Funnily enough I asked about her claws at the vets. The vet said they had no bearing on this particular injury but that they were a bit long. Of course she offered to cut them but I dread to think how much more that would have cost. So I said we'd tackle them this week. That will be fun 😐 buy yes you are right, they do need cutting.

I also agree with the dog food angle, she was 20.4 kg today. We've tried so hard over the years and she won't change to tinned, she really won't. Believe me it would be considerably cheaper for us.

I've said to partner no more cheap ham or beef both due to salt content and no luncheon meat as it is way too fatty so we have steered her towards chicken and turkey breast and the odd bit of corned beef and ready cooked chicken thighs for a change. Was saying to the vet, it's not the quantity we are giving her, its the fat content. She's not a greedy dog, doesn't continually pester for food unless you eat before her. She won't eat treats if someone offers her one outside the home, she'svery fussy.

She eats biscuits but only when very hungry mixed with her food.

Partners been stuck with his activity levels due to his upcoming knee operation so long walks haven't been forthcoming although she free reins over 50 acres twice a week with two other dogs when partner takes her to work with him and as you can see she runs across the fields when we visit Lari twice weekly so her activity levels are pretty high.

We need to try harder, I know we do, you're only telling us what we know. Partner seems to really have a mental block when it comes to the dog for some reason.

This is normally what we feed her, so for her tea tonight for example she has a bit of pork loin, bit of corned beef, bit of turket breast slice and a tiny bit of chicken thigh with some Harrington kibbles. I've put it on a plate to show you as it's hard to see the volume in her bowl.

What do you think? Is that too much for a rising 12 yr old 22.4kg beagle? It's so hard to know.
 

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Ok so for comparison she is about the same weight, if not a little heavier, as/than my younger German Shepherd (who to be fair is very small for her breed and very active).

I would say that the reason she is not eating certain things is because she is not that hungry and she is fussy because she has trained you that way. A dog in the wild will gorge itself on whatever it finds and then go for days without eating. If I was trying to get weight off a fussy dog and they did not want what I was offering for days, and there were no other medical issues preventing them from eating, then I would actually wait them out for days, it would be their decision not to eat and I have never seen a dog starve itself. I would not let myself believe it was cruel or unkind, I would think that I was helping the dog by reducing the amount of weight it had to carry around, alleviate pressure on the joints and help prevent a whole host of health problems. And I guarantee you if a dog is hungry enough, it will eventually eat what is is offered.

The way I think about it is, a lot of people associate food with love or care, and that can then spill over onto our pets. But love can also mean wanting your dog to be as fit and healthy as possible, so even though the dog may enjoy unsuitable foods, and we show love by giving them those, and they show love back by looking happy when they eat it, it is not good for them long term. If the dog was ancient or underweight, I would say yeah, feed whatever, my old dog has a cup of Chappie dry softened with water twice a day, but that's all he can really tolerate these days without it upsetting his tummy. But you have a dog with certainly a good few years left of life who will come to no real harm if you cut her food back and offer something better for her, potentially quite the opposite.

As regards the cooked meat, just look on the packet, there are loads of things in them that are not good for humans, never mind dogs. I could not feed any of that to my old dog as he would get the squits for a week, the young dog would occasionally get chopped-up cooked chicken or turkey if it is in the reduced section as a high value reward, through training/work only, once in a while but certainly not something I would feed daily. And I would take the skin off the chicken as it is usually sugar used to get that nice golden brown effect.

For me the food is probably more important than the exercise, and for the latter you have to think about what she was bred to do, how she moves and conserves energy (from food) and how that impacts on how you feed and exercise her. I can go into that a bit but at her age I wouldn't be upping the exercise levels to anything crazy. But you could for sure get her using her brain and nose more.
 
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A friend's dog was the fussiest dog to feed. That is until his 'sister' was diagnosed with diabetes and a complete dietary overhaul was required. After two days of turning his nose up at the new diet (easier to feed both dogs the same) he decided to eat.

Now that there are no more treats or ridiculously complicated, faddy food combinations he eats twice a day with relish.

Your dog will eat an appropriate and healthy diet once they're hungry enough.
 
I would stop all the extra cooked meats etc and just feed her a complete kibble. I truly believe a healthy dog will not starve itself, if she doesn't eat for a couple of days it will help kick start her diet. Obviously while she is on the metacam you will have to indulge her a bit food wise but once she is off that then a bit of tough love is needed.
 
Clodagh said:
But you have been nagged a lot about this over many years so I suspect nothing will change.
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It's not all down to me though so no need to be so patronising. She's my partners dog, he pays the food/insurance/vets bill so you are being very unfair to me, not that you care. But you have no idea how difficult the situation is. I have tried.
 
That doesn’t sound like high activity levels for a working breed to me. That’s no bad thing, most of us just want pet fitness dogs. I’d feed her for a 15kg dog, picking the food up if she goes on hunger strike. It’ll make quite a difference at this stage before she’s too arthritic to exercise at all.
 
Our female husky weighs 21.8kg. She can be fussy with food, and is now on a special bladder diet. So far, she is eating it fine, but on days when she’s picky, it gets taken away after 10 mins, and tried again at next feed. She’s been fussy since we got her as a puppy, but has never starved herself.

Nail trims at our vets are £13.
 
When my old jrt needed to lose weight due inactivity and high dose steroids my vet advised to weigh the food. Give 10% less than recommended levels and cut by another 5% if weight loss not happening. She lost 4 of her 10kg over a few months. We did not feed diet food but a high quality complete food. I do understand it's hard when OH doesn't cooperate. Mine kept the little tit bits until I said that 1/4 digestive biscuit for a 6kg dog is like you eating half a packet. That got the message home. Good luck
 
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