ad lib hay/haylage contributing to obesity?

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I have noticed on the forum that a lot of members advocate ad-lib forage.

I have owned/managed my own horses for 20 odd yrs and have always weighed their forage, using the 2.5% of bodyweight equation. My horses are in full work over the winter and both hunt regularily, and thrive on what they are given.

I am conscious of the fact that they may well have finished their 'ration' before morning, but they never seem desperate for their breakfast, or suffering for it. However if I allowed them ad-lib haylage I imagine they would gain weight quickly, which would not allow them to perform their 'jobs' comfortably. Also financially it would cost me a fortune!

I was always lead to believe that horses were designed to put on weight over the summer to see them through the harsher winter months. Therefore if we allow them to go into Spring already carrying condition, once the grass comes through are they not at risk of putting on unhealthy amounts of weight, leading to the current obesity probem we have in the equine world.......?

Just a thought!
 
i feed adlib haylage, they are TBs and TB xDWB. Mine never get fat. But then i never over feed hard feed. The most they get is one feed a day made up of un molassed beet and some grass nuts, with linseed and brewers yeast. They never get a breakfast even in freezing weather as their gut is full of the haylage. I bring in to a large amount of haylage at 5ish. then check and skip out at 10.30 and top up. In teh morning they have some haylage left. it all depends on the horses. I would far far rather my horse was full of hay/haylage and never had a hard feed, than 2 hard feeds a day and limited haylage.
 
I think you are right, in that most horses do so little work that ad lib forage of any kind if they are a good doer will lead to a gradual but steady increase in weight. It certainly did with my coblet, who only had hay and not lush grazing but who became overweight and who had an initial lami attack as a result.

I was shocked by how little a maintenance ration (total of everything) was. Thankfully she didnt have any changes in the hoof on X ray and now has sparse grazing with muzzle in daytime and limited forage (soaked hay plus oat straw plus vit/min supp) in the stable. She already looks trimmer and miles healthier. I am determined she will never have chronic lami and am lucky that I am at home and so is she so I can feed her little and often.

It is critical not to starve the horse as that has its own dangers and also to make sure that they get little and often, which is often a challenge if they are in livery (altho at least at livery the grazing tends to be sparser than horses at home get). But regular measured feeding would probably be a better rule of thumb than ad lib in the light of the majority of horses in the UK now being classed as obese.

Ive learned my lesson the hard way, thankfully getting away with what the vet called 'a warning', rather than full blown lami.
 
It entirely depends on the mouth that you are feeding..

I have a minature shetland that gets fatter on his own thoughts and a Welsh Section D that you can feed him as much as you want but he will only eat as much as he wants and at the moment is borderline ok/underweight.

The mini pony has been on a restricted diet for the last 3 years and he is only just getting back down to a reasonable weight level, it is begining to show as well as he has a lot more energy and moves around alot more.

Prince gets ad-lib hay, to the point where I have a little bit left over, he only grazes his hay and his tea/breakfast and eats slowly, stopping when full. He has always been like this and ensuring he has enough and when on the yard or here with sparky he was getting it, and it wasn't being eaten by others is a constant battle.

Some horses I wouldn't dream of giving Ad-lib hay to as you might as well bring them into a hay barn each night as by morning it would be all gone. Others need it.

As a guide starting at the 2.5% of bodyweight equation and then working up or down dependant on the horse/pony's condition and what you want to achieve is where I would start. I have all the kit to weigh acurately but I haven't this year as I know what the weight should feel like and how it should look.

Robert
 
I have two extremes. My PRE isn't greedy with hay, he'll walk away from it. But not haylage! He's in regular work, but he is a good doer and I do have to be very careful with him. My TB is the opposite, far less work, poor doer and will eat until she bursts. Managing the pair has been a challenge, especially as they're barned and yarded (not stabled).But basically, she gets shut into a large pen morning and night for a few hours each time, ensuring that she has her calorie fill in haylage. He's shut on the other side, so he can't eat her calories. Then they're let out together in the field during the day, and through the night on soaked hay. She also isn't keen on being in the field for long this time of the year, and starts fence walking and obviously burning off her precious fat store. So even though she would benefit from the grass, she doesn't get enough of it.

It's been a challenge, but finally we seem to have a regime that suits both. Certainly ad lib haylage for my PRE would be a death sentence.
 
lachlanandmarcus said:
It is critical not to starve the horse as that has its own dangers and also to make sure that they get little and often, which is often a challenge if they are in livery (altho at least at livery the grazing tends to be sparser than horses at home get). But regular measured feeding would probably be a better rule of thumb than ad lib in the light of the majority of horses in the UK now being classed as obese.
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And for that I award my prize for most sensible post of the day. Not always feasible, but sensible.

I do agree with the OP - I would be hesitant to feed adlib hay or haylage to anything that did not actively need to put on weight, or was possibly in very hard work. The number of people feeding ad lib haylage in the snow and being surprised when their horses come out of winter obese seems to be staggering.

I feed oat straw in sufficient quantities that it lasts a good deal of the night, but there is isn't often much left in the morning - highlands are capable of eating just about any amount of food left in their field. I don't weigh the straw out, but I do weigh haylage and hay if I'm using it. Mine're out 24/7 but there's not much in the way of grazing in their field. I'd rather feed more low quality forage (hence the oat straw) than very small amounts of haylage though.

eta - I do the same as showqa with my cob who needs some more calories (haylage) to keep weight on though.
 
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Ad lib hay/ hayledge I would say is essential for a poor doer, but for native breeds it does pile on the weight. I have seen ID's on more or less nothing than ad lib haylege and good grazing and they where fat!
I broke a pony for someone who has fell ponies all of which were obease but she switched ad lib hay to straw and they all look fantastic now. Well covered but not cresty or fat.
 
I could not feed my horse adlib hay or halage! He would be obese in no time. He gets carefully measured nets, doubled, and added to straw! He is in work (ridden at least 4x a week fairly intense work). He's not overweight but it takes so little for him to pork up!
 
There was a study posted on here a while ago (wish I could find it!) that seemed to indicate that horses given limited forage gorge themselves, whereas those who have access to forage 24/7 regulate themselves (which is also better for their guts).

Personally I find that it depends on the horse. I have a WB who is always on the thin side no matter what he is fed, a mini who will eat what he needs and leave the rest (he even leaves grass so he doesn't need restricted grazing at all!), a WB who keeps himself at a nice weight and a HW cob who gets fat off fresh air!
 
I would love to feed mine ad lib, I know if is better for gut. But there is just no way.... She just inhales her food. Her haynet has tiny nets and I double net it, but I am pretty sure by the early hours, she has none left.

But I will not let her get fat, so we just cope.
 
For most horse ad lib hay/haylage with little or no work and thick winter rugs in the long term is storing up trouble. Mine get ad lib straw, if they are hungrey they will eat it and even if they are not, this year in large hestons in the field which also double as a wind break. They then get their hay/haylage on top of that as a feed twice a day and a basic chaff based feed with a supplement once a day.
 
My horses are all fed adlib hay and none of them are fat, let alone obese. Lack of work, too much hard feed, standing in stables for hours on end and not enough room for proper field exercise is what I think is lacking with a lot of horses. Mine live out 24/7/365 and are only rugged when the weather is extreme (apart from the foals who are rugged when it's wet and very cold).
 
Agreed Spring Feather - ad lib makes more sense if they are out 24/7, especially in the depths of winter when the grass is lacking nutrition.
 
galaxy23 said:
I would love to feed mine ad lib, I know if is better for gut. But there is just no way.... She just inhales her food. Her haynet has tiny nets and I double net it, but I am pretty sure by the early hours, she has none left.

But I will not let her get fat, so we just cope.
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In to the wee hours? I think mine is lucky if he has anything past 9 pm! I'd LOVE to give him more. But sadly, he inhales his 2% bodyweight so quickly, in tiny holes double netted! :eek:
 
PucciNPoni said:
In to the wee hours? I think mine is lucky if he has anything past 9 pm! I'd LOVE to give him more. But sadly, he inhales his 2% bodyweight so quickly, in tiny holes double netted! :eek:
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Well, I may well be in denial!!! lol!

Oh, my horse is also well exercised, gets no hardfeed, certainly not over rugged and is turned out every day. She's just a big girl!
 
Sidney said:
I have noticed on the forum that a lot of members advocate ad-lib forage.

I have owned/managed my own horses for 20 odd yrs and have always weighed their forage, using the 2.5% of bodyweight equation. My horses are in full work over the winter and both hunt regularily, and thrive on what they are given.

I am conscious of the fact that they may well have finished their 'ration' before morning, but they never seem desperate for their breakfast, or suffering for it. However if I allowed them ad-lib haylage I imagine they would gain weight quickly, which would not allow them to perform their 'jobs' comfortably. Also financially it would cost me a fortune!

I was always lead to believe that horses were designed to put on weight over the summer to see them through the harsher winter months. Therefore if we allow them to go into Spring already carrying condition, once the grass comes through are they not at risk of putting on unhealthy amounts of weight, leading to the current obesity probem we have in the equine world.......?

Just a thought!
Click to expand...

I agree with you on this one. I have natives and if I were to give ad-lib hay or haylage they would be stupidly obese and unable to perform (I don't
do showing!) I find that letting them go into spring on the leaner side allows them to be able to go out and graze, and touch wood I haven't had any problems with laminitis.

I believe nowadays that the main problem is that horses seem to be fed alot yet do very little work!! I am shocked at what people think is "hard work" some are sure that their horse is working "hard" if it's doing 6 days a week of 45 mins schooling and RC at weekends with a couple of hacks!!
 
I agree to some extent, with Booboos. My mare came to me from a home where she was left out on rich grass for a month or so, then when she got too fat was brought in and almost starved for a week or 2 until she lost weight, then put out on rich grass again. She's your typical cobby good doer, and now has what I can only call an eating disorder. She literally gorges until she cannot eat any more, if I fed her ad lib hay she would explode. She is out 24/7 year round on strip grazing, to stop her from scoffing huge amounts at a time. Its like she's worried she's going to be put in and not fed, so she has to fit in as much food as possible. I've had her for over 4 years and she hasn't forgotten - and I don't think she ever will. It makes me feel quite sad really. x
 
IMO, the cause of obesity in horses is that their owners know very little about appropriate feeding.
I have lost count of the number of threads on here asking 'What can I feed my overweight horse to give him more energy?' or 'My horse only eats 3 buckets of hard feed a day, why is he fat?'
Unless horses are in extremely hard work they DO NOT need cereal feeds. They evolved to eat grass and in many cases do so very efficiently. The feed companies are in business to make money. They recommend ridiculously high amounts of daily feed on their bags and inexperienced owners follow these guidelines, to the detriment of their horses.
We feed all our horses, which range from a very overweight (bought that way but losing the weight) draft horse through normal weight to an elderly cob who is no longer a good doer on grass in various forms; hay/lage, dried grass chaff, grassnuts, very successfully.
 
I think part of the problem is adlib is ideal to how a horses gut works in summer they would put on weight in winter loose, I have acres of grazing most of mine live out.
The horses we have in and out get good turnout because we have alot of grazing unless we have heavy snow the horses refuse to eat hay we provide vitamin and mineral licks which they use, even the horses that live in dont eat much hay when in as they are out for long periods where they eat lots of grass with little in it as would happen in the wild hence no probs hence the ad lib forage.

I understand most do not have this kind of access to grazing like this and is how problems arise.

I think it is very hard to solve this problem as most yards do not have enough grazing as is the natural need of most horses.
 
My PRE lives to eat. If he had ad-lib hay he would be obese and probably get lami. He would just eat and eat and eat. If he runs out of hay he just starts on his straw, no matter what I put on it to try and deter him, but at least that has less calories.
 
Agree with most; I'm lucky mine live out on good grazing, both are native good doers, but they seem to level themselves out? Both are ridden 3/4 times a week, barely touch the hay when they come in and get just a handfull of chaff with magnesium.

I dont rug unless it is very cold/wet and windy ( not had one on yet this winter ) Most of the horses in my village are overweight ( I'm talking off the weightape scale :( ); they even feed them pasture mix/mollichaff extra!! and they are never ridden.

And wonder why they have problems
 
Depends on the situation
At the moment my tb gets ad lib hay or haylage but he also spends half the day out on fairly poor pasture and gets the minimum rug wise. He also gets only enough hard feed to carry his supplements and as much work as I can find time for.

He gets stressed if he's shut away and has nothing to eat so I would always try to find ways to slow him down or feed something that has less energy so he eats less without standing for hours with an empty net.

When he was on box rest I had to ration and I couldn't feed hay as it brought him out in hives. So he got 5 really small holed haynets over the day to he didn't have his ration all in one go and a bigger one at night.
 
Just a thought, I was in a yard recently where they'd had to put a little cob on a strict diet
because the owner had been feeding it haylage for copd instead of hay, it then needed an op on its' hind legs, they wouldn't do the op until it had lost loads of weight and she had to stop the haylage and put it on soaked hay which I think it's still eating now.
 
I think this thread makes a number of valid points, and I think the main issue is mindless feeding, or feeding according to trends. There's probably a certain element of people being blind to what condition their horse / pony should be in.

I've only had 2 in my lifetime, both fairly short term. The first was a lanky tb, and I really did operate on an 'all you can eat!' basis with him- he was such a poor doer and would drop weight at a click of your fingers (yes, he was wormed!). With decent grazing, loads of forage and a hardfeed, he did gain condition but was always on the 'athletic' side.

On the other side of the coin, I had a little cob, who became known as Fatty, because he was incredibly podgy. With him, he just got forage, but tried to keep him turned out as much as possible (the fields were rubbish so not much grass for him to gorge on, more just for company. He spent most of his time playing in the bog anyway..). He did get small amounts at regular intervals, but he did not have constant access.
 
another one here who couldn't feed ad-lib, tried it one year and they just stood and stuffed their faces all day long and started putting on weight rather than maintaining weight:rolleyes:
A lot of people feed to satisfy themselves rather than considering what is best for the horse, happens with small domestic pets like cats and dogs as well :rolleyes: no matter how much people deny it horses are treated more like pets now, that's why we rug them up and treat them like delicate little flowers rather than treating them like the half tonne lump of livestock that they really are;) never see a farmer rushing out to rug up his herd of beef cows through the winter do you;):D
 
I think it really comes down to commonsense - I have three horses/ponies at the moment, two of which are on adlib haylage but don't get fat. The pony, however, would gorge and get fat on adlib, so she gets haylage little and often, so that she is not left for hours on end without anything, but doesn't get so much that she gets fat. These sort of good doer types are often better out as much as possible on poorish pasture, so they can walk around and nibble, rather than standing most of the night in the stable with an empty stomach.

However, I do think it is a false economy (and often bad for the horse) to ration hay and haylage, but then feed huge buckets of hard feed. So many owners think they have to give buckets of mix or whatever, to be a good owner, regardless of the horse's workload or condition.
 
I have had the opposite experience with ad-lib feeding - it's not the forage it's the bagged foods full of mollasses and sugar that put the weight on and appear to give them abnormal appetites.

All of the horses that we have had here over the past 25 years or so have been in at night with ad lib haylage in the stables and they all regulate their intake, from the TBs to the tiny companion ponies. (They may gorge for a few days if they are not used to it but soon come round). Work-wise, the riding horses are ridden regularly 5/6 days a week and do the odd competition and hunt, the littlies go for the occasional walk or long-rein.

However, all of them rarely see hard-feed except for a little chaff to have vits and mins in and they are turned out on acres of hilly old grass ley with enough space to have a good old hooley when they want to and they seem to eat in the same pattern as in their stables - graze a bit, stop a bit, graze a bit more, go and find an interesting bush to munch, stop a bit........
 
I'm another one with good doer porkies! If they had ad lib forage they'd be the size of houses, although I have had rescues who needed feeding up and they obviously got as much as they could eat (forage) until they were stabilised. So, ours get oat and barley staw with a "feed" of haylage mixed through in winter, and soaked, stemmy hay if in during summer, with a low calorie balancer. We unfortunately have very good grazing which they get access to for as many hours a day as their waistlines allow, otherwise in a large, arena-size pen.
 
Spring Feather said:
My horses are all fed adlib hay and none of them are fat, let alone obese. Lack of work, too much hard feed, standing in stables for hours on end and not enough room for proper field exercise is what I think is lacking with a lot of horses. Mine live out 24/7/365 and are only rugged when the weather is extreme (apart from the foals who are rugged when it's wet and very cold).
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Agree totally! Also over rugging of horses I think contributes to their weight control too. Have seen so many horses wearing rugs that are too thick for the time of year, or else for their level of work. Most of mine are in lightweights at the moment, mostly to keep them clean as I have coloureds which have a lot of white. I have an older TB mare who has been unwell and not gaining weight at the moment who is in a winter rug to help with any heat loss. My other older horse is also in a light weight too.
My cob has just changed to a medium weight in the day but he is due to be clipped soon. My big lad will be upgrading to his once he is clipped out. The TB will also be having her neck and chest clipped as she gets sweaty there when stabled and suffers with scurf/spots otherwise, so she will be clipped out and wear a suitable rug ( or layers) along with a neck cover.
But in my time I have seen horses on yards rugged up to the eyeballs, sweating and uncomfortable as they have not been doing enough work to warrant the rugs in my opinion.
 
It's useless trying to apply such generalisations to horses - they're all individuals. I have a tb that needs ad lib haylage & 2 feeds a day to maintain his weight even if he's doing no work. I also have a normal doer wb x tb that just gets ad lib forage. If I had a fat native I'd restrict the forage. It's about feeding the individual animal according to its energy requirements, not applying whichever random principle is in fashion at the time.

Just mho, of course ;):)
 
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