Ad - lib Hay

[dorsetladette]

Following on from the conversation started in another thread about mucking out.

What are peoples thoughts on ad-lib hay?

This is how I feed hay and have done for the last 3 winters now. Here's my experience.

When I first started I had B1 & B2. B2 was a serial eater. We used to say that he would comfort eat, if his anxiety levels were high he'd eat more. B1 is also a big eater. So the first winter we went through a lot of hay and had 2 pretty chunky ponies coming into spring. both wintered unrugged and out 24/7.

Last winter we had B1 (now known as B) Robin and new livery. B wasn't as food driven although spent most of his time stood at the feeder either eating or snoozing. Robin ate when he wanted but didn't spend all his time at the feeder. The livery pony came from a yard where hay was put out daily and he was quite low down the pecking order. He spent a lot of his time eating to start with and then seemed to work out it wasn't going to run out.

This winter none of them have spent a huge amount of time at the feeder. An average size round bale has consistently lasted 14 days all winter. All are coming into spring looking just right (I like them to have room to put a few lbs on over summer and then go into winter a little heavier, like they would naturally).

The new youngster (Reggie) after 3 weeks has finally worked out the hay won't run out and is spending more time away from his feeder. But I think this could also be due to the size of bucket feeds he's getting on top of his hay to get some weight on him. His feeder has been topped up twice daily since he arrived and he's been eating roughly 1 and a half heaped barrowloads in a 24hr period. Again this never runs empty just filled up every time I'm there.

B has always been possessive of food but has not been of the hay feeder and will happily stand with his field mates at the hay feeder to eat. But, when we were putting hay out twice a day he would guard as many piles as he could and feed times would be very stressful. for me ad-lib hay feeding has been a game changer and I wouldn't got back to nets or rationed feeding if you paid me.

 

[catembi]

Mine are allowed free access to 6 stables with a hay net in each, topped up twice a day. They are also fed twice a day. Sometimes they eat a LOT of hay in a day & sometimes they don't! No one particularly guards anything.

 

[Cortez]

It completely depends on the type of horses and the system they are kept in, and the type of pasture. When I had sportshorse youngstock they were always fed ad lib and did fine. When I had Spanish horses and Friesians they were fed weighed amounts and had restricted pasture. I'd fed the Spanish types ad lib hay in the beginning and they were like balloons, ad lib isn't suitable for all horses.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

It completely depends on the type of horses and the system they are kept in, and the type of pasture. When I had sportshorse youngstock they were always fed ad lib and did fine. When I had Spanish horses and Friesians they were fed weighed amounts and had restricted pasture. I'd fed the Spanish types ad lib hay in the beginning and they were like balloons, ad lib isn't suitable for all horses.

Absolutely agree.
My current 2 are not dustbins and have had ad lib all winter. In daytime no grass restrictions for either - except the tiny one wears a muzzle now and at night she's small paddocked with ad lib hay.
2 winters ago I was ad libbing 2 and very much restricting the other 2, all 4 native breeds.

 

[Shilasdair]

Ad-lib hay is not a very natural system for horses either- in the wild (although there are no 'wild' horses) they would have to travel quite a distance to eat their grass, and although there would be abundance in the spring/summer months, this would be balanced by a paucity of food in the late autumn, winter and early spring which would help control weight/metabolism.

 

[blitznbobs]

I tried to give my cob adlib hay over winter as thats what i do with the rest … hes nowon a serious diet

 

[PapaverFollis]

Depends a bit on the hay as well. I've given plenty over winter as had a source of older, less good hay. Have recently switched onto last summer's hay which is greener and tastier... they can't eat as much as they want of that!! I'd be giving them twice to three times as much as they were eating of the less tasty stuff. So they are getting a weighed net, a bucket of top chop zero, are bedded on straw and ignored during the day. Out overnight within appetiser Hay Hutch of hay then what is left of the winter field to pick at. They're hungry... Good! They are also dropping a bit of weight after maintaining too well over winter.

I struggle with them being hungry much more than they do. I worry about colic. But they are getting a good sized net and it is rough stalky hay even though it is green and tasty...

I do think ad-lib is just impossible for some/many.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

One of mine wouldn't stay out if he didn't have constant access to hay in the field. They are starting to pick at the grass more now but are still eating plenty of hay whilst out. They have 2 haynets each at night.

 

[Widgeon]

Mine is out 24/7 on well drained land, with hay - he hasn't had a single night in this winter - but regardless of whether he is in or out, and regardless of season, he will eat everything available to him and expand accordingly. Because he's out 24/7, and last year when he was in he was on a straw bed, he is never without something to nibble on. I've been soaking his hay this winter and that has helped keep him trim more than I would have believed until I tried it.

So I am not convinved that the assertation that horses with constant access to forage will eventually self regulate, can actually be applied to all horses. Anyway, as Shilasdair says, feral horses have a totally different lifestyle and different food available than domesticated horses. So I'm not sure it's necessarily helpful to compare the two situations.

 

[Auslander]

Mine always have something to eat, but they have to work for it. Stabled greedy ones will have a pile of loose hay, a normal net, and a trickle net - so they can fill the tank a bit before they have to tackle the demon net - I find they are less frustrated if they've already had some easy access hay. The ones who need to eat plenty get 2 big bale sections in large hole haynets in the stable, and always have a bit left in the morning.
All the field kept ones get hayed twice a day - greedy feeder nets for the fat ones, and big plastic tubs for the slimmer ones. They finish their rations in about 4 hours, and are happy to go off and search for grass afterwards.

 

[I'm Dun]

My TB gets truly ad lib hay. The cob and native do for 2 months in the very worst of the winter. The rest of the time they are limited. The only reason they get the ad lib in the worst of the winter is the TB goes in with them andwill chase them off and move them around from time to time.

They have forage all the time, but its in small holed nets on the floor, hay balls, or nets hung high in trees etc. If I fed them ad lib 24/7 they would stand in one spot and never move while they ate and ate and ate.

The TB eats, has a wander round, a snooze etc then a bit more. He doesnt stand stuffing his face 24/7. He occasionally will have a bit of a hay belly but generally maintains his weight easily.

 

[dorsetladette]

So I am not convinved that the assertation that horses with constant access to forage will eventually self regulate, can actually be applied to all horses. Anyway, as Shilasdair says, feral horses have a totally different lifestyle and different food available than domesticated horses. So I'm not sure it's necessarily helpful to compare the two situations.

It's totally not suitable for all. B2 was a perfect example of a horse that can't self regulate.

My reference to how their weight would fluctuate 'naturally' was more to do my welsh ponies being up on a welsh hill where they were originally bred to live. (B was born there and spent his first couple of years out on a hill farm) rather than the 'wild' or feral ponies.

 

[GinaGeo]

Mine have ad-lib hay. In that it is always available. It doesn’t mean it’s easy to stand and scoff their faces all day. It’s also low sugar and starch.

Various nets in various places with varying difficulty keeps everyone moving.

 

[Translationsneeded1]

2 of mine get ad lib. One would be the size of a house if allowed ad-lib so gets restricted.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Following on from the conversation started in another thread about mucking out.

What are peoples thoughts on ad-lib hay?

This is how I feed hay and have done for the last 3 winters now. Here's my experience.

When I first started I had B1 & B2. B2 was a serial eater. We used to say that he would comfort eat, if his anxiety levels were high he'd eat more. B1 is also a big eater. So the first winter we went through a lot of hay and had 2 pretty chunky ponies coming into spring. both wintered unrugged and out 24/7.

Last winter we had B1 (now known as B) Robin and new livery. B wasn't as food driven although spent most of his time stood at the feeder either eating or snoozing. Robin ate when he wanted but didn't spend all his time at the feeder. The livery pony came from a yard where hay was put out daily and he was quite low down the pecking order. He spent a lot of his time eating to start with and then seemed to work out it wasn't going to run out.

This winter none of them have spent a huge amount of time at the feeder. An average size round bale has consistently lasted 14 days all winter. All are coming into spring looking just right (I like them to have room to put a few lbs on over summer and then go into winter a little heavier, like they would naturally).

The new youngster (Reggie) after 3 weeks has finally worked out the hay won't run out and is spending more time away from his feeder. But I think this could also be due to the size of bucket feeds he's getting on top of his hay to get some weight on him. His feeder has been topped up twice daily since he arrived and he's been eating roughly 1 and a half heaped barrowloads in a 24hr period. Again this never runs empty just filled up every time I'm there.

B has always been possessive of food but has not been of the hay feeder and will happily stand with his field mates at the hay feeder to eat. But, when we were putting hay out twice a day he would guard as many piles as he could and feed times would be very stressful. for me ad-lib hay feeding has been a game changer and I wouldn't got back to nets or rationed feeding if you paid me.

Nope small holed haynets not ad lib, mine are pigs and have medical conditions

 

[meleeka]

Mine get ad-lib but my old mare just doesn’t stop eating! She’s fortunate she’s not a particularly good doer but she’s fatter than I’d like going into Spring. They’ll have a track soon and not quite ad-lib hay so she will lose it then I hope.

Mine are fed from nets but I do find they barely move in the winter, even though the field is always open. They just hang around the hardstanding eating which isn’t ideal for oldies. I could spread the hay in the field but we are on clay so would then risk injury when the mud gets deep. I just can’t win!

 

[HashRouge]

I've probably got more grass than most on my winter field, so I don't do ad lib hay as they always have something to eat. They get a feed sack full each in the evening, and one between them in the morning. They both look a good weight, especially the 29 year old! They have ad lib hay if they're ever in the stable overnight though, as my welsh crib bites and food tends to distract him! Plus they're not used to being in so I try to make it a nice experience with lots of hay.

 

[Nasicus]

I had one that would take ad-lib as a beat-the-buffet type challenge.

 

[Dontforgetaboutme]

I have agreed with yard that they have a token amount when they are brought in a 3.30 and I will put in evening net after I ride at 7.30. They were getting a rather too large net to see them through. I think little and often is the way to go, being stood for couple hours between portions isn’t the same as having empty stomach. I now also have it soaked so they get bigger net

 

[spotty_pony]

I always feed ad-lib. The greedy ones will slow and regulate themselves once they realise it’s always available. The reason they are greedy in the first place is often because it has been limited in the past.

 

[L&M]

As with all these types of issue, one regime does not always suit another.

If I let my cob ad-lib he would be quickly obese, but our other horse more likely to self regulate and walk away once full.

 

[GoldenWillow]

Like many others I have found it is very much dependent on the individual horse. I've had 3 cobs and a shetland over the last 27 yrs so not a huge number.

Cob 1, no off switch, was on large, fairly poor unrestricted grazing and either hay with ad lib straw. Was obese even with 15+ hrs work a week (was on working livery at RS) Weight was kept under control with much less work once grazing and hay was restricted in a sensible manner.

Cob 2, on 2 acres of old pasture and more or less ad lib hay, stopped when full and although slightly overweight in summer would lose in winter.

Shetland, self regulates to a degree, will stop eating but would be overweight if truly adlib. Has small paddock in summer with sort of ad lib hay and straw.

Cob 3, no off switch. Was 3 1/2 yrs old and underweight when he arrived, had unrestricted grazing on old pasture and ad lib hay, was obese within 9 months. He's been on managed grazing overnight and restricted hay with dampened straw chop since and is a nice weight, puts a little on over summer and loses through the winter. Nine months unrestricted was enough to see if he would learn to self regulate and he didn't, if true ad lib had continued he would either have serious health issues or be dead by now I would guess.

Some horses do not learn to self regulate but can be managed in a way that does not compromise them but it is harder work to manage them.

 

[ycbm]

Some horses do not learn to self regulate but can be managed in a way that does not compromise them but it is harder work to manage them.

I worry about the horses owned by people who believe statements that all horses learn to self regulate, but own one that won't.

I believe that many horses which eat as long as food is available are programmed to do that to safeguard against a future famine. The owner knows that famine will never arrive. The horse doesn't.
.

 

[GoldenWillow]

I worry about the horses owned by people who believe statements that all horses learn to self regulate, but own one that won't.

I believe that many horses which eat as long as food is available are programmed to do that to safeguard against a future famine. The owner knows that famine will never arrive. The horse doesn't.
.

I completely agree and unfortunately have seen some of the results.

 

[Cortez]

I always feed ad-lib. The greedy ones will slow and regulate themselves once they realise it’s always available. The reason they are greedy in the first place is often because it has been limited in the past.

What happens when they don't though? There are a lot of fat horses in the UK, when are they going to "self-regulate"?

 

[Pippity]

Mine gets two slices of a small bale overnight, soaked for minimum 12 hours, double-netted. There's always some left in the morning so, while it isn't true ad lib, she's clearly getting as much as she wants.

When she was getting it unsoaked, she inhaled that much in a few hours, so there was clearly some 'eating because it tastes nice' as opposed to 'eating because she was hungry'.

ETA: We had a vet out to the yard to talk about preventative health the other day, with a focus on weight control, and she was body scored at 3.5 (out of 6). Could be better but, considering she's been out of real work over winter and is a cob, it could be a lot worse.

 

[tatty_v]

Neither of mine have ever reached self-regulation, as much as I would love them to. Both have to be carefully managed, particularly our more recent addition as he had several bouts of laminitis in his previous home. Interestingly our young Shetland is probably the closest to self-regulation - he will leave hay if he is full.

I try and make it as stress free for them as possible - soaking hay so they can have larger quantities, served loose so there’s less frantic pulling at a net, straw available to graze on etc.

 

[dorsetladette]

What happens when they don't though? There are a lot of fat horses in the UK, when are they going to "self-regulate"?

I think it has to be managed/watched. I had 2 podgy ponies coming out of the first winter of adlib. The dynamics of the herd changed before the second winter (dominant/greedy pony left) and things were very different.

We buy good hay, but we do put a bale net on bales which we consider 'very good' hay which they may gorge on. It is mostly as they toss it around and I hate seeing it being trampled into the mud. It is a large holed net though so is more for containment than to slow them down.

 

[windand rain]

Big bale hay is the work of the devil in my eyes it should never be left where horses can reach it. Fine for saing money by filling weighed nets. Living out 24/7 means they are trickle fed on very small amounts of fibre they have to move to find it and it is lower in nutritional value as it is 90% water. It is also lazy if all that happens is a tractor dumps it in a field. Messy and dirty hay is left to damage the ground and is not good management. We have an epidemic of obese horses the horsemans eye for feeding is either gone or shifted to at least overweight if not obese. I cannot remember the last time I saw a photo of a horse that didn't look fat with everyone saying how perfect they were. Sorry folk but the facts speak for themselves as do the rise in metabolic disorders. and laminitis

 

[ihatework]

It depends on the horse and their routine surely?

For stables/semi-stables horses, provided they are not overweight then I’d offer ad-lib hay.

If overweight Id monitor hay and try and give it in a way that slows eating. I particularly try and bed these horses on straw so they have something to pick at. Some horses just don’t have an off switch, and the long term impact of obesity is not to be under estimated.

For horses living out, provided there is a bit of grass and their body condition is ok, I don’t feel the need to feed ad-lib - although often for humans it’s easier to via bale feeders etc