Addicted to turnout!!

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melony73

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After being a lurker on these forums, I feel I need to be brave and post for some advice. I have an ex racer that had not long been out of race training (approx 3 months) and been in retraining for around 6 weeks. Ive had him two weeks and I kept him in pretty much since I had him due to him not being used to turnout and I didn try to put him out when I first got him but he panicked so much that he nearly injured himself on the electric fencing. So I have not put him in a more secure field with 5 other horses. He has really taken to it, in fact so much so that bringing him in is becoming an issue. He has buddied up with one horse in particular and yesterday I tried to bring him in for his tea/brush etc and I managed to catch him and we walked across the field half way before he started frantically calling for the others, turning his head to see them and walking into me. Then skipping infront of me and shoving me, getting quite bolshy. I got him to the gate and he leapt backwards, I managed to keep hold of him and didnt shout or anything, just stood firm, he then had a paddy and reared, I still managed to keep hold of him and get him out the gate and we walked back to the yard with him calling and jogging. He is bolshy to lead back out to the field and I have to open the gate at lightening speed as he tried to barge through me and through the gate. I had to let him go with his rope attached yesterday as I was afraid he might rear and get me. I did manage to go into the field when he was chilled and unclip it. Once on the yard, he is lovely to handle and will go in the stable fine and the school fine without issue. It is literally the getting him in/out of the field.

He is not my first ex racer, I have good experience with schooling side of things etc but this particular issue is new to me. I have been given conflicting advice, some said leave him out for a few weeks and dont touch him and others have said bring him n whether he likes it or not or he will get worse????

I cant do the whole move him away but keep him in sight thing as the gate to the field is next to a road and often his buddy will follow him to the gate.
 
the problem with that is, our yard is split into two due to the size and the field he is in actually belongs to the other part of the yard, he is only in there as the fencing is much safer/sturdier. So it would mean bringing another horse in, walking over to the other yard then walking across the road to my ayard on his own anyway. If that makes sense. The one he has buddied to is out 24/7 grass livery.
 
Get a dually or rope halter and lead with hat, gloves and a lunge line, then u are safe and can let the line go loose but still keep hold, I had this issue with my ex racer it takes time a patience but u will get there!
 
Can't help I am afraid, but it might be worth calling one of the racehorse rehoming charities like Moorcroft and asking their advice as they must desl with this sort of thing a lot so probably have some tried and tested ideas you could use
 
Holidays_are_coming said:
Get a dually or rope halter and lead with hat, gloves and a lunge line, then u are safe and can let the line go loose but still keep hold, I had this issue with my ex racer it takes time a patience but u will get there!
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ive been leading him with a stallion chain clipped on the offside ring and over the top of the nose, it was only because of this that I managed to hold onto him when he reared. I have also bee wearing a hat. I have been using a leadrope but wonder if a lunge line is a better idea as it would allow me to move out at a safer distance. My main worry is that he will rear or lash out and I will be in the way. Will try contacting morecroft and others!
 
Hi, has he every been out with a herd before? My horse hadn't when he went into a herd I tried to bring him in and he did what your horse does but mind would get away from me, I just left him for a week or so he would come in at night when the others came in, now 3 weeks on I can bring him in with no problem, so he might just need time to know his friends will always be there. good luck x
 
figgy said:
Hi, has he every been out with a herd before? My horse hadn't when he went into a herd I tried to bring him in and he did what your horse does but mind would get away from me, I just left him for a week or so he would come in at night when the others came in, now 3 weeks on I can bring him in with no problem, so he might just need time to know his friends will always be there. good luck x
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apprently yes he has, granted not much but he has been out with a herb when he came out of training. So I guess he wouldnt have been out that much at all. Im afraid if I just leave him in there, it will be worse when I do want to bring him in.
 
melony73 said:
apprently yes he has, granted not much but he has been out with a herb when he came out of training. So I guess he wouldnt have been out that much at all. Im afraid if I just leave him in there, it will be worse when I do want to bring him in.
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I know what your saying and I was thinking the same with mine but I must say it did work for me and my horse, it's very hard to know what to do for the best .
 
Some of our brood mares are ex racers and it is very difficult to do much at all with them on their own including turnout and bring in. I think they do EVERYTHING within a group from birth that they have never been used to any otherway and panic when asked to do the simplest thing alone.
I have found they do improve over time but it's very slow progress and as brood mares we don't work them so it is the simplest tasks they kick off about.
We have one, who is still impossible after 3 years. Even with brand new foal she has to be able to see other mares and needs another kept in close by.
I think it their previous management and difficult enough for us for a long time it must be a ten fold problem for a working horse. I'm sure you'll get there with the right help and advice which I don't have but wanted to say that I don't think it's your boy personally, but most ex racers.
Good luck.
 
I think you have to deal with it rather than turning him out & hoping he'll improve.

he has just discovered the joys of being in a herd and is scared to death his new found friends will dissappear and he'll be alone again, poor boy.


I would ask the owner of his particular friend if they can come in together for a few weeks. See whether you can give her pony a groom, feed, pick his feet out whatever in exchange for the other horse being a nanny till yours realises that coming in doesn't mean he will never be turned out again. You may find you can bring them both in together yourself, yours may be a lamb with a friend. If not see if you can get help. Try to do a bit at a time, the solution is for him to keep coming in till he realises that it is a temporary thing, but you cannot allow him to realise that he can walk all over you or you will have a problem.
 
I had the same problem with my ex racer, he is out 24/7 and absolutely loves it!

I just carried on bringing him in every day, even if it was just for a bit of food, and then straight back out again. I found a rope halter to work very well. He still tries it on every now and then but is much better than he used to be.

I know some people may not agree with it, but if you are going to get hurt from him rearing I would get a chifney and lead him with that. He will be used to be being led with a chifney and may respect you a bit more with it. My ex racer went through a very silly faze when they moved into the summer field and I led with this for a few weeks until he calmed down again.

Some of our brood mares are ex racers and it is very difficult to do much at all with them on their own including turnout and bring in. I think they do EVERYTHING within a group from birth that they have never been used to any otherway and panic when asked to do the simplest thing alone.
I have found they do improve over time but it's very slow progress and as brood mares we don't work them so it is the simplest tasks they kick off about.
We have one, who is still impossible after 3 years.
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This is reassuring in a way - even after 3 1/2 months my ex racer still sometimes panics when I bring him in by himself, even though he can see his field mates from where he is tied. If I bring in a friend for him he is fine.
 
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he has always been lead with a chifney at his training yard. I didnt have one but had a stallion chain so used this but do wonder if I should get a chifney just for the time being. My main worry is that either I will get hurt, or if he gets free on the road (we have a short walk to the yard from the field) he will get loose and hurt himself, though I expect he would just take himself back to the field!
 
what do you attach your chifney to, a lead rope or lunge line? I worry that if he gets free with a rope dangling and a chifney in, he will stand on the rope and break his jaw or something!
 
I don't see how just leaving him out for weeks is going to help to be honest. I had the same problems with my Welsh D, except he would act up when I was leading him wherever it was, and even once tied up he would stand there rearing and kicking out.

The key is repetition. It sounds like he is anxious to be taken away from the other horses. If you can, take him out from the field a few times everyday. Ignore the joggyness, and only put him in his place if his barges into you. Tie him up for 5 minutes, give him a few treats in a bowl (or his dinner) then put him back in the field again. He will soon learn that being brought in is a positive thing
 
One good habit for the long term, providing you don't mind treating by hand, is to give him a treat at the gate (providing no other horses around). Lead him in, turn him round, get him intrested in the treat, remove rope and treat him.
Always done this with mine and never had a problem on turnout, they wait for the titbit before clearing off.

Also I had an a young tb who had been on a training yard, clicker training helped with his handaling immensely! And forms a nice strong bond, done correctly clicker training does not cause mouthyness.
 
FreddiesGal said:
I don't see how just leaving him out for weeks is going to help to be honest. I had the same problems with my Welsh D, except he would act up when I was leading him wherever it was, and even once tied up he would stand there rearing and kicking out.

The key is repetition. It sounds like he is anxious to be taken away from the other horses. If you can, take him out from the field a few times everyday. Ignore the joggyness, and only put him in his place if his barges into you. Tie him up for 5 minutes, give him a few treats in a bowl (or his dinner) then put him back in the field again. He will soon learn that being brought in is a positive thing
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if he barges me I ask him to stop back up then carry on walking, though for some reason this seems to make matters worse. What is the best way to stop him barging me, he has a good little technique going, where he turns his head right away from me to look behind him then zooms straight into me with his shoulder. Perhaps I shouldnt give him enough rein to look behind him?
 
melony73 said:
what do you attach your chifney to, a lead rope or lunge line? I worry that if he gets free with a rope dangling and a chifney in, he will stand on the rope and break his jaw or something!
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I put a rope halter on and a chifney, lead from the rope halter, if he starts to get silly I unclip the lead rope from the halter and attach it to the chifney.

I do find that once the chifney is in his mouth he doesn't play up. I don't think he realises that the lead rope isn't actually attached to it!!

When I have had to use the chifney, he has never got away from me from.

What Buds_Mum said too - I give him a treat when I meet him in the field, which also keeps him occupied while I put his halter on. I then give him a treat when we reach the gate. Another once he is tied, and the same going back again. This helps to keep his attention on me, and not the other horses who call out to him when he leaves and make matters worse!!
 
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Buds_mum said:
One good habit for the long term, providing you don't mind treating by hand, is to give him a treat at the gate (providing no other horses around). Lead him in, turn him round, get him intrested in the treat, remove rope and treat him.
Always done this with mine and never had a problem on turnout, they wait for the titbit before clearing off.

Also I had an a young tb who had been on a training yard, clicker training helped with his handaling immensely! And forms a nice strong bond, done correctly clicker training does not cause mouthyness.
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he is quite nippy, thats why I have not given trats by hand, however, that seems the least of my worries at the moment so if I have to give treats by hand to work through this issue then thats what i'll do, can always work on the nipping later I guess. I tried bringing him to the gate to feed him but the others saw the bucket and all barged to get to it which made him worse, so for safety I will have to bring him out of the gate, its getting out the gate thats the main issue.lol Its frustrating as he is such a lovely boy once on the yard!
 
Try using a clicker and only give him a treat once you have clicked. That way he won't nip you for treats as he knows when one is coming.

There are lots of threads on here about clicker training. I used a clicker to catch my ex racer when he first arrived as he used to come up to me and then run away when I tried to put a head collar on him. I don't use it any more as he now happily lets me catch him, but if i came across another problem I would definitely see if it could be solved using the clicker again.

p.s. your horse sounds a lot like mine!
 
I have no issues with using chains or chifneys if necessary but I think its always best to solve the cause & prevent them needing to misbehave if possible. When I got daughters pony she had spent her first 3months with her dam & the following 9months without so much as a sheep within calling distance. After a short time in to administer the physical treatment she needed she went out with my mare. Her joy at having company again resulted in her losing it if mine went further than 10' away. They joined the other horses after a few weeks & she learnt to settle with others around in the field. She would flip if she was brought out of the gate leaving the others in sight but at a distance, her tiny size alone stopped her from being dangerous. So we simply didn't ask her to. She came in with mine or not at all, then we moved on to coming in with any. Then very slowly got her used to going round the corner out of sight for a carrot or a quick handgraze before returning. And just built slowly from there. By 3 she would happily go off for walks alone & would stand in the backgarden with hay for an hour alone. She is now fine, at least with us handling her or with others at the farm. Not entirely sure she'd go far alone with a stranger though. Obviously her case was more extreme than yours, but its basically the same problem. I would just bring him in with company for now, whether you time that with another livery or bring in yourself. Then once he has nothing to fight about, start slowly getting him used to being alone. What worked for us was making sure leaving the others always resulted in something enjoyable so she began to have positive associations with leaving the others. And I'm sure yours will adapt quicker than ours did, good luck.
 
melony73 said:
he has a good little technique going, where he turns his head right away from me to look behind him then zooms straight into me with his shoulder. Perhaps I shouldnt give him enough rein to look behind him?
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Exactly what mine does. I'd sharply pull his head towards you and give him a dig just behind his shoulder with your elbow. He should move away from the pressure. Even if mine starts creeping next to me getting bargy, I will stick out my elbow and tell him to firmly "Move away" in my best mans voice!
 
FreddiesGal said:
Exactly what mine does. I'd sharply pull his head towards you and give him a dig just behind his shoulder with your elbow. He should move away from the pressure. Even if mine starts creeping next to me getting bargy, I will stick out my elbow and tell him to firmly "Move away" in my best mans voice!
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it's all about the elbow ;) the trick is to make it very pointy, and not so much push it into them as hold it firm so that when they barge you they poke themselves :) Generally that does the trick, but if he still persists hold something a bit pokier in your hand and again let him push his shoulder into it rather than the other way round. They do learn!

Also, I found this article the other day which (although it is American ) is pretty interesting reading on retraining a racehorse - there are some good bits on teaching them to lead that you might find of use:

http://www.tranquilityfarmtbs.org/pdf/retraining.pdf
 
Dependingon how old he is, and how long he had been in training, he may have been chucked out with a herd for his holidays. This would mean when he was taken away, he was coming back into work, although they tend to bring a whole load in together, which lessens the problem a bit. I helped a lady with a similar issue with her ex racer, I put him on a lunge line, and literally lunged him in the first few times, slowly walking the circle in the direction I needed to go, this was partly as he was out on about 50 acres, which dien't help. If you use a chifney, he will probably be used to having it clipped to both the headcollar and the bit at the same time. Practice lots, and he should improve no end.
 
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