Adding condition but not sugar..

OldNag

OldNag

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Suggestions very welcome please!
We have a little Welsh B who, though in her late teens, is doing very well.
The winter has not done her any favours and I'm a little worried about her condition. We've not had her long but worming, teeth etc all up to date.
She is looking a little too ribby for my liking and I'm wondering about boosting her feed but I'm also careful not to add much sugar/starch. She's in regular work - ridden approx 5/6 times a week.

She's currently in (field waterlogged, will go out daytimes shortly), hand grazed daily.
Hay ad lib, never runs out.
Breakfast fast fibre, pro balance, micronised linseed, salt.
Lunch fast fibre, micronised linseed
Dinner ditto.

I did look at calm and condition but wasn't sure it would be that helpful above what I'm already feeding.

Suggestions very welcome. Thank you.
 
No harm in swapping the FF for CC.

Other options-
Unmollassed sugar beet
ERS Pellets
Rice Bran- Equijewel

Whilst you say she is a little ribby would good grass top her up? It wont be long till its very lush!
 
Not much goodness in Fast Fibre, I wouldn't pay that much for a product whose top ingredient is straw
Try higher fat and protein- oils, alfalfa etc
 
TheMule said:
Not much goodness in Fast Fibre, I wouldn't pay that much for a product whose top ingredient is straw
Try higher fat and protein- oils, alfalfa etc
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Totally agree - and grass nuts contain more protein and fibre, as also does unmollassed beet pulp. But if she's anything like any native pony I have ever met, once she gets some grass inside her she won't need any more conditioning, you'll be asking how to keep her weight OFF!
 
I would start with speedibeet or similar .
Giving more caused immediate weight gain in one of mine who lost weight due to coughing when he caught a virus at Christmas .
And you could always give more linseed .
 
More linseed will help, but for straight weight gain you could add
-rice bran (eg SaracenEquijewels), usually quite expensive
-coolstance copra
-soya in meal or flake form (oil does also work but is not digested as efficiently) cheap
 
TheMule said:
Not much goodness in Fast Fibre, I wouldn't pay that much for a product whose top ingredient is straw
Try higher fat and protein- oils, alfalfa etc
Click to expand...

JillA said:
Totally agree - and grass nuts contain more protein and fibre, as also does unmollassed beet pulp. But if she's anything like any native pony I have ever met, once she gets some grass inside her she won't need any more conditioning, you'll be asking how to keep her weight OFF!
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I actually don't agree in this case, she is a welsh b, 'a little ribby' and just coming into spring leave her as she is, she will soon pick up with the new grass about to come through
 
Thanks all. She's not a fatty in spring like our others, from the photos I have seen, I will add some beet or copra (depending on what feed shop has) and up linseed a bit... but will be keeping a very firm eye on her as the grass comes in.
 
Wish my B was ribby, she's had nothing but grass all winter and hasn't lost a pound. Confined to the paddock already! Agree with QB, she will soon pick up, particularly if the weather continues as it is.
 
I'd suggest that you carry on as you are, it won't be long before the spring grass comes through and you'll be fighting with her putting on too much weight.

Research has shown that the natives and those that are prone to laminitis are better off coming out of winter having lost condition.

If you really are determined to increase her weight then oils will be the way to go.
 
You could try swapping the fast fibre for veteran vitality, or mixing the two - I find it adds a little bit of condition quite quickly and really rate it as a feed. Alternatively add a grass chop or something similar until your grass comes through and cut it down as the spring grass grows
 
Goldenstar said:
I would start with speedibeet or similar .
Giving more caused immediate weight gain in one of mine who lost weight due to coughing when he caught a virus at Christmas .
And you could always give more linseed .
Click to expand...
Yes, un molassed beet is high in pectin a highly digestible fibre which equals slow release energy. A good quality balancer will add minerals and protein such as lysine which is usually low in forage and the horse cannot synthesize in it's body.
Just remember the largest part of diet is by far forages ie. grass and hay and that is often where they get the most sugar from.

ps. Any way to increase exercize and movement is also good. A track round the field if possible is better than creating a small paddock within a field as it increases movement.
 
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I had a heated debate on Facebook the other day about fast fibre. Same question as the OP was asked and the majority of people were saying feed fast fibre for condition? I pointed out that fast fibre was a low energy hay replacer and if you want to spend £9 on a bag of it, just buy more hay!

I used unmollased sugar beet, micronised linseed and Spillers conditioning cubes when my boy needed a boost. I tried Calm and condition and Baileys conditioning cubes but neither of these made much difference compared to the Spillers. Feed ab lib hay and the grass will be through very soon.
 
Fast fibre does contain a good proportion of beet and some find it, along with hay soaking for eg. put weight on but I suspect this is down to the hind gut functioning better with a lower sugar/starch diet.

If stabled a lot over winter I suspect lack of movement might be a factor here.
 
HaffiesRock said:
I had a heated debate on Facebook the other day about fast fibre. Same question as the OP was asked and the majority of people were saying feed fast fibre for condition? I pointed out that fast fibre was a low energy hay replacer and if you want to spend £9 on a bag of it, just buy more hay!

I used unmollased sugar beet, micronised linseed and Spillers conditioning cubes when my boy needed a boost. I tried Calm and condition and Baileys conditioning cubes but neither of these made much difference compared to the Spillers. Feed ab lib hay and the grass will be through very soon.
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I really don't understand the enormous fanclub C&C has, it is basically beet and linseed and it would be more cost effective to buy a sack of each (as I do).
 
amandap said:
Fast fibre does contain a good proportion of beet and some find it, along with hay soaking for eg. put weight on but I suspect this is down to the hind gut functioning better with a lower sugar/starch diet.

If stabled a lot over winter I suspect lack of movement might be a factor here.
Click to expand...
Interesting
not always possible to have natives out 24/7.
 
I feed Top Spec comprehensive balancer and cool conditioning cubes with a chaff and simple systems lucie pellets and my boy who is prone to losing weight looks great, it has all he needs in and low in sugar and starches. I tried calm and condition for 10 months but I dont think it suited him as well as the Top Spec.
 
MrsD123 said:
I am sure you do, but if one owns one tiny pony, and is not a nutritionist, buying one bag of feed is ok
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I don't disagree, I was referring to the praise for this product that seems to be sung all over the net where as I find it a bit of a con, it's basically two straights people have been feeding for years re-packaged as some amazing wonder-feed. It's not even obviously stated on the bag what it's made up of, which again, I find a bit of a con.
 
marmalade76 said:
I really don't understand the enormous fanclub C&C has, it is basically beet and linseed and it would be more cost effective to buy a sack of each (as I do).
Click to expand...


One of mine will not eat much beet if fed straight he would push it round and leave what he could, he loves C&C, since changing to it he licks his bowl clean which he never did whatever he was tried on previously and I would not think of him as a fussy horse generally.
 
MrsD123 said:
Interesting
not always possible to have natives out 24/7.
Click to expand...
I know or even some TBs! This is why I have created large yards so they can still move 24/7. My attempt with a track system didn't work as it's a bog here even in summer the last three years.
 
Thank you everyone, some really useful info on the replies here.

I decided in the end, to stick with her diet as is, but to gradually replace the fast fibre with calm/condition.... if I find she does start to put too much on when the grass comes through, I'll move back the other way. I think she's inclined to be on the slender side though.

I get what is said about calm/condition, I ummed and ahhed about getting this as opposed to speedibeet but bought it because if I find I don't use the whole sack - quite possible - my friend gets through shed loads so there won't be any going to waste.

Re fast fibre.. I only use it as a carrier for the supplements and I find it a really useful base for pro hoof, linseed etc and I find that they alll seem to really like it. I don't want to give my others any additional calories, merely to get supplements down them, so it serves a purpose, and lasts me ages in the quantities I feed.

Thanks everyone :-)
 
be positive said:
One of mine will not eat much beet if fed straight he would push it round and leave what he could, he loves C&C, since changing to it he licks his bowl clean which he never did whatever he was tried on previously and I would not think of him as a fussy horse generally.
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Also works a treat on my friend's incredibly fussy horse... it's about the only thing she'll eat the lot of.
 
I have just found a Mr. Chapman from Horseheath Equine. He is a mine of information, they do soya straights, linseed, oat straw chaff and their own balancers. He is very knowledgeable and is delivering my order today!!!
Will keep you posted but will work out much much cheaper than FF or any other propprietary feed.!
 
Tnavas said:
Research has shown that the natives and those that are prone to laminitis are better off coming out of winter having lost condition.
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This, I posted a thread about it ages ago. And I'm now stressing because my gelding hasn't dropped off at all over winter which is what I really believe horses should do.
 
Yes but sometimes they drop off too much epecially as they get older, or if the winter was extra cold/wet etc. and if like me you have NO grass now is the time to feed a bit more oil etc. so they improve enough to be ridden again
 
4x4 said:
Yes but sometimes they drop off too much epecially as they get older, or if the winter was extra cold/wet etc. and if like me you have NO grass now is the time to feed a bit more oil etc. so they improve enough to be ridden again
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Oh yeah, I'm not disputing that I'm just saying less and less people seem to be doing this now. Like I let my horse get too fat over winter and now I have a stressful few weeks on my hands trying to drop some weight before grass comes through argh!
 
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