Admitting defeat . . . need some conditioning feed, sigh

PolarSkye

PolarSkye

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Despite his current feeding regime, Kal is not maintaining a healthy weight . . . his teeth are fine and he's up to date with worming . . . I just think it's down to poor grass/higher workload.

So.

I've tried upping his current rations (Speedibeet, Alfa A Molasses Free, Blue Chip, Readigrass, hay/haylage, oil) and it's just not working . . . so I'm thinking about adding a (non-heating) conditioning feed like Bailey's No 1 or No 4 . . . thoughts?

He can't tolerate too much sugar (or ANY molasses) and is prone to being fizzy so I need to be careful.

P
 
Have you considered adding micronised linseed? That won't add any bulk in his feeds, but should add condition. It is quite economical to feed too.
 
TwoStroke said:
How much oil are you feeding, and is he on ad lib forage?
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He gets about a teacup of oil full spread across three feeds a day. Ad lib? Well, he is out grazing (on poor grass but with hay) from about 10.00 (after he has worked) until 4.00 p.m. and when he's stabled or standing on the yard he always has hay/haylage . . . he has hay/haylage left in the morning so must have had enough overnight, no?

P
 
I sympathise with you OP - I have a mare who is totally the opposite - she is always rotund. She is worked at least 5 times a week and has no grass and is on limited haylage and a tiny forage feed to give her low calorie balancer. I am always worried about her weight - she is 20 this year and has never changed.
 
Ditto the Linseed, what about full fat soya. Go to your local agricultural feed merchant and buy the cattle version exactly the same stuff at a fraction of the cost, make sure your get the extruded full fat soya, not the toasted. ;)
 
PolarSkye said:
He gets about a teacup of oil full spread across three feeds a day. Ad lib? Well, he is out grazing (on poor grass but with hay) from about 10.00 (after he has worked) until 4.00 p.m. and when he's stabled or standing on the yard he always has hay/haylage . . . he has hay/haylage left in the morning so must have had enough overnight, no?

P
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Yes, that sounds like ad lib :)

Re the oil, you can feed up to 100ml per 100kg of bodyweight safely. Micronised linseed is high oil (about 35%) which is why it's good for condition. Soya flakes are also high oil, but also high protein. The oil in soya is mainly pro-inflammatory omega 6s, whereas linseed has higher levels of anti inflammatory omega 3s. So if feeding soya I would feed in conjunction with linseed to balance out the ratio.

You could also consider adding some straight oats which are well tolerated and high energy.
 
PolarSkye said:
What about copra? Anyone had any success with that?

P
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My WB went nuts on this - it is very high protein (21%) and if you use the feeding guidelines that is a huge protein intake per day. Whereas with the linseed, whilst that is high in protein you just feed that by the cupful, so a much smaller intake. I also question feeding coconut extract to horses. Oh and to add a friend's horse got repeated foot abscesses whilst being fed this - she is now convinced the high protein caused those as they ceased the instant he was taken off Copra.
 
Copra is low on the two limiting aminoacids for muscle production Lysine and Methionine, so for horses needing weight I wouldn't consider it.

You should be considering feeds high on oil and with good quality protein (high on those two AA's). The three best feeds for this are linseed, soy (choose soya hulls if the horse already has enough protein in his diet) and alfalfa.
 
Mine needs to build weight and muscle as part of a rehab programme. Have spoken to vet and nutritionalist and have moved her onto micro linseed, equi jewel from saracen and a conditioning mix.

Vet said the mains things were as much hay as she can eat, but sounds like you're already doing that, and veg oil being the most effective way of getting calories into them in small volume - building up to 100ml twice daily. Not sure how that fits with the amount you're feeding atm?

Assume no physical reasons - mine seems to have lost the weight due to pain but they did investigate any internal/absorption issues too.

But if the grass is poor, which it seems to be, I suppose it's likely that lots of turnout isn't going to deliver the calories you need until the spring grass comes.
 
I've had good results with the conditioning fibre from spillers :) I feed linseed as well and its adding good condition and shine to them :)

Also had good results with readymash extra and topspec conditioning cubes. We are currently feeding the TB on the above and he has steadily gained weight in the last few weeks :) he is also getting linseed, beetpulp and alfalfa :)
 
Just put TB on TopSpec Cool Condition upon recommendation of feed store nutritionist (it was cheaper than what I originally was going to buy so don't think he was pushing it for any other reason than he thinks it will help). It definitely hasn't hotted him up but too early to notice a difference.

First time he's needed anything 'extra' to his grass, hay and one feed a day but this winter has been something else.
 
I have used Allen and Page Calm and Condition to good effect. I wanted to try micronised linseed but my feed merchant can't get it?? Everyone else seems to have no problem, can you tell me where you get it from and in what form?
 
You can order micronised linseed on line from Charnwood Milling or (ever so slightly cheaper) GW Titmus. I have just persuaded my feed merchants to get some in for me but have yet to find out how much they will be charging for it. Buying direct costs around £25 including £7 postage.
 
JillA said:
You can order micronised linseed on line from Charnwood Milling or (ever so slightly cheaper) GW Titmus. I have just persuaded my feed merchants to get some in for me but have yet to find out how much they will be charging for it. Buying direct costs around £25 including £7 postage.
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Thanks JillA!
What state does it come in, is it like micronised barley? I ordered some in and got whole coarse linseed and didn't fancy boiling it! Guessed it was avaialble as everyone talks about it....
Doe sit come with feeding guides? How much do you feed (once introduced to it obviously!)?
 
It looks like ground up linseed, but it is cooked (micronised) so you just feed it as it comes. Most people find a mug full daily is enough, depends on the horse etc so use a mug full as a yardstick and work on that.
 
I have a poor doer TB who real struggles to maintain weight in winter however I've been feeding soaked grass nuts, speedibeet, micronised linseed and soya oil with huge success after trying numerous conditioning feeds which did nothing.
 
You should be able to double the oil to 500ml a day. In stages, of course, not all at once :)

I had one horse who simply would not maintain her weight until I took her off sugar beet and then she put it on easily. I don't know if that's relevant to you but it might be for other people. I didn't add feed, I just left out the beet. I've never had another like it though.

Is your horse absolutely well? Is he a fretter? Excuse me if it's already been suggested but have you tested him for ulcers and Cushings?
 
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JillA said:
You can order micronised linseed on line from Charnwood Milling or (ever so slightly cheaper) GW Titmus. I have just persuaded my feed merchants to get some in for me but have yet to find out how much they will be charging for it. Buying direct costs around £25 including £7 postage.
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Or try farmandpetplace.co.uk , £23.98 incl delivery for 20kg of the Charnwood product.
 
A vet who was visiting mt yard said as well as this hard winter, last years hay/lage has next to no nutrients in it after the lack of sun and too much rain we had. He said that is why the horses are dropping off even on adlib forage.
My mum uses topspec cool and condition cubes with alfa a and pink powder for her horse and they work well on him and they are meant to be
cereal free.
I've swapped Jae onto Spillers slow release cubes and he's on a big scoop morning and night with a scoop of alfa a oil. They are low starch and sugar and have high oil components in them such as soya hulls and rice bran. He
has definitely picked up and his temp is super. I wanted to try those as a stepbefore conditioning feed as he can get a bit obnoxious and thinks hes gods gift on them. :)
 
I've been feeding Equijewel this winter, and have been really pleased with the results. Alf dropped a load of weight before Christmas, and the EJ put it back on slowly and safely without him going loopy. Had to take him off it a month ago, as he was starting to look like a big hairy barrage balloon. He's currently on a scoop of chaff, linseed and sugar beet, and adlib hay

I make up his Speedi-beet, soak for 10 mins,add the micronised linseed to it, then leave for 5 more mins. He only has 1/2 a scoop to mix his supplements into, and he wholeheartedy approves of it served this way!
 
cptrayes said:
You should be able to double the oil to 500ml a day. In stages, of course, not all at once :)

I had one horse who simply would not maintain her weight until I took her off sugar beet and then she put it on easily. I don't know if that's relevant to you but it might be for other people. I didn't add feed, I just left out the beet. I've never had another like it though.

Is your horse absolutely well? Is he a fretter? Excuse me if it's already been suggested but have you tested him for ulcers and Cushings?
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Certainly upping the oil and v interesting about the sugar beet.

Kal is very well . . . and is actually remarkably chilled at the moment. He does get a little stressy when out competing . . . and I have noticed that he drops more directly after having been out (he was at T-down this weekend and was out two consecutive weekends before that).

He hasn't been scoped for ulcers or tested for EMS/Cushings, but he is otherwise really well - lovely muscle, skin and coat in great nick - he's just on the lean side. I really do think it's down to the poor quality of the forage, no grass and his much higher workload.

P
 
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