Adopting a ckc with heart murmur

[Newdog1]

Hello everyone.

I was looking some advice; my husband and I are considering rehoming a ckc from a local charity which specialises in the breed. The dog we were interested in is 5 years old, male and has been diagnosed with a grade 2 heart murmur which won’t be covered by insurance. He is on no medication at the moment. Would this factor be enough to put you off adopting him? Should we wait for another ckc without a heart murmur so it can at least be insured? He has such a cute face though...

 

[{97702}]

Do you know what his breeding is by any chance? The heart murmur wouldn't put me off at all quite honestly, I've known cavaliers for about 35 years now and quite a lot of them have had heart murmurs of various grades - it can be a very subjective matter too, with one vet saying everything is fine but another vet saying there is a murmur there...

 

[Red-1]

I clicked on this thread to find out what a CKC was, bit sadly an none the wiser!

Presumably it is a breed of dog, a heart murmur would not worry me as much as if it were a horse. Other than that, I am no help. Sorry.

 

[AmyMay]

Is the dog overweight?

 

[{97702}]

I clicked on this thread to find out what a CKC was, bit sadly an none the wiser!

Presumably it is a breed of dog, a heart murmur would not worry me as much as if it were a horse. Other than that, I am no help. Sorry.

It's a cavalier king charles spaniel - the breed is usually referred to as 'a CKCS' or 'a cavalier'

 

[Newdog1]

Sorry about the abbreviated term causing confusion. Levrier unfortunately I don't know anything about his breeding. All I know is he's a Blenheim, looks a little on the weighty side and his family surrendered him to the charity, but I'm not sure why. They say he likes people, is good with cats and likes going for walks.

 

[AmyMay]

It may be that once he's healthier and slimmer the murder may resolve.

 

[TGM]

They say he likes people, is good with cats and likes going for walks.

What about how he is with other dogs - that seems the obvious omission from the list above? Regardless of the heart murmur, I'd want a bit more information about why he was given up by the family. Sometimes it can be because of factors that are not linked to the dog at all, such as owners emigrating or moving into rented accommodation where dogs aren't allowed. But often it can be because they can't cope with the dog for some reason - it might have separation anxiety and can't be left on its own, might be destructive, might have toilet training issues etc. I'd think about what sort of issues would be deal-breakers for you and ask the charity about them. Is the dog being fostered or in kennels at the moment? Getting a fostered rescue is often a good option as the foster home will be able to truly assess the dog in a home environment and be truthful about any issues.

 

[{97702}]

Sorry about the abbreviated term causing confusion. Levrier unfortunately I don't know anything about his breeding. All I know is he's a Blenheim, looks a little on the weighty side and his family surrendered him to the charity, but I'm not sure why. They say he likes people, is good with cats and likes going for walks.

He sounds like a typical cavalier lol Would you be prepared to share which charity it is? I know I am being very intrusive, so please forgive me, but I have access to a huge number of contacts in the breed so might be able to find out a little more about him 'unofficially' - I can't promise anything of course

 

[Newdog1]

Hi guys. I forgot to mention they said he was good with other dogs too. He is with a fostered at the moment and I've been trying to get in contact with her to find out more. The charity is in n.i. so I don't know if you would know of anyone over here. Thanks for your responses so far.

 

[{97702}]

Ah I still have contacts but not as many of them over there, he sounds a real poppet though He is very unlikely to be troublesome with other dogs, destructive etc being that breed, although I realise you can never say never!

 

[rara007]

You might be waiting a while to get one of that age clear! The EPIC study is pretty readable. A grade 2 murmur is a definite murmur that wont go away and it’d be fair to assume the startings of MVD. The progression and prognosis is unpredictable from murmur alone.

 

[{97702}]

You might be waiting a while to get one of that age clear! The EPIC study is pretty readable. A grade 2 murmur is a definite murmur that wont go away and it’d be fair to assume the startings of MVD. The progression and prognosis is unpredictable from murmur alone.

The vast majority of my mum's dogs don't have a murmur at that age.....

 

[rara007]

Statistically half will by 5- I guess good breeding helps avoid that but ‘most’ rescue ones don’t come from that category

 

[{97702}]

Glad she bucks the stats then, because approx 80-90% of hers are murmur free at that age....

 

[pippixox]

How much would the medication cost? Also would it need to be increased over time?

If it is affordable and you like the dog then go for it!

I have no experience with the problem but if a rescue needs a home and ticks the boxes for you then it is probably a risk worth taking.

 

[Newdog1]

Hi Pippixox from research online the meds are no more than £25 a month at most when he does need them, but the majority are much cheaper (less than £5 for a box of 30). I'm not sure to be honest if it would need to be increased over time, but I'm sure it's a possibility. I think for us the main concern was the potential cost of scans/x rays or referrals to cardiology when required. I would just hope it wouldn't be that often.

 

[Clodagh]

TBH If I was taking on a dog with a known health condtition I may well still take them on, but would decide I was not going to pay for future expensive investigative work and would
PTS if the whole thing became unmanageable. I would say it is easier to say that before you love them, though.

 

[{97702}]

Vetmedin invariably will need increasing as time goes on.....
Ya takes ya pick and ya makes your choice.... not something that would put me off still 😊

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I don’t think I’d take on a dog with a known issue. My oldest springer has a grade 4 (according to our new vet) heart murmur. He’s nearly 16 and likes to run round fields still. It’s never been an issue, but if I’d known, I’m not sure I would have taken him. He’s never needed meds for it.

 

[{97702}]

I genuinely cannot understand the opinions expressed on this thread, which typifies why I left HHO and am likely to do so again very soon. To suggest you would only consider adopting a dog in 100% health with no known issues is reprehensible to my personal views - every dog is worthy of a chance IMHO, unless it has health or behavioural issues which render it totally unsuitable for a new home. I am grateful for the experiences I have which totally invalidate the views of others.

 

[Aru]

It's a personal opinion Levrier and everyone has their own opinions and reasons for them.

Personally I wouldn't chose to adopt a young cavelier with a heart murmur either.
It suggests the mitral valve is already an issue because murmurs are often caused by turbulence and backflow within the chambers of the heart. While the murmur may not give us an accurate timeframe of when the heart will start to fail it definately isnt a normal finding in a dog of this age and if this was a potential breeding animal it would be recommended they be desexed instead of passing on their genes.

All dogs may become ill,there is no denying that, but choosing one who has already got a potentially life limiting condition that may need expensive longterm medication and followup in the future isn't something I would be eager to do.

Not everyone wants to invite potential heartache into their lives. Others may chose to do so but its not for me. We all make our own choices.

 

[Newdog1]

I found out some more info on the dog from the fosterer; she said as far as she knows his family had a house fire and they had to move into rented accommodation which wouldn’t allow pets (so sad). He given up to the charity on Christmas Eve so has been fostered about 1 month. She says he very sociable and loves people. He won’t however sleep in his bed but only on the sofa (not a big issue) and eats anything given to him.

She currently has two other dogs herself (one a 5 month ckcs and the other a 1 year old collie x) and says that compared to her other two dogs, he drinks a lot more water and would sleep more (Might be a bit concerning). The charity spay
/neuter all their dogs so he has only had this done. Would this cause any issues at age 5? I’m starting to think we should hold out for another dog, despite his apparently lovable personality, to avoid premature heartache if nothing else.

 

[Newdog1]

Sorry, also meant to say that the fosterer mentioned she was having to take him to the vet today in relation to the neutering as his prostate was enlarged. He was yelping for a few days after the procedure when they tried to pick him up.

 

[{97702}]

No being neutered at 5 shouldn’t be a problem generally, all of my rescues have been neutered before they’ve come to me & have been fine

The drinking would concern me as to me it would potentially suggest other health problems - if I were the charity I would be getting blood tests done, to ensure there weren’t any kidney problems for example.

He does sound to have had a pretty rotten time of it, poor boy ☹️

 

[Newdog1]

From reading online briefly, the drinking a lot concerned me a little too. It doesn’t seem the charity are going to test him though...

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I don't know enough about cavaliers and heart murmurs to comment specifically on it but I did take on a 5yo rescue with a pre existing condition (epilepsy). She was a delight and I don't regret it but we lost her after 5 months to status epilepticus and it was devastating to lose such a young dog, a massive shock. The rescue society told me at the time that it wasn't much of an issue and that she was stable on her meds-when I got her vet notes through (her owners had both died within months of each other) that wasn't quite the case but I'd already had her for a couple of weeks then and she really didn't have much in the way of choices. I have great vets who really didn't charge me what I thought they should for the afternoon she was in intensive care-obviously the epilepsy wasn't insurable. The rescue society covered the cost of any drugs needed but I opted to pay for them myself as they weren't that expensive and they are a small, good dog charity. I am not sure I would do it again tbh but then status epilepticus is very distressing to watch. If I were to do it again I would take advice from different vets as to the risk.
They should be able to get you the old vet notes if you asked? not sure how helpful they would be in this case.

 

[Newdog1]

Sorry to hear about your experience mother of chickens, I can’t imagine how hard that was. I think that’s part of our fear, taking him on and him suffering for much of the time we have him. One of the local vets I spoke to for advice suggested that the charity does contribute to the cost of medication, as they have other dogs which have been rehomed with them. However when I asked the charity about the murmur etc, they never mentioned it. I guess it could be something they no longer do. Thanks for the suggestion about the previous vets notes, not something I would’ve thought of. I can always give it try..

 

[MotherOfChickens]

there really shouldn't be an issue, the existing practise will redact any personal info.

 

[AmyMay]

Bless him. Doesn't he deserve a home for however long he may have?

If he's overweight the drinking could be down to diabetes???