Advantages or disadvantages of backing a warmblood at 3 opposed to 4

patch1234

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Is there any advantages of backing a warmblood at 3 as long as he is physically and mentally mature enough to deal with it? Would you always turn away if backed as a 3 year old?
 

ellie_e

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Personally I would leave him. Warmbloods mature later than other breeds, well so I've found. Also they tend to go sour quicker. If you can turn away i would
 

Asha

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My IDxWB is 3 1/2 and hes being backed at the moment. All going very well. He will come home in a couple of weeks, and will be turned away until spring.

Just doing the basics, as i dont him doing to much.

Hes always been easy to deal with, but he had started to get bored and play up a bit.
 

Meowy Catkin

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Personally I would leave him. Warmbloods mature later than other breeds, well so I've found. Also they tend to go sour quicker. If you can turn away i would

Skeletally there is no difference between breeds and maturing rates. Very big horses do take a few months extra though.
 

patch1234

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You might find this article interesting.

http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_2008/ranger_piece_2008_pdf1.pdf

ETA. The article does apply to all breeds, not just TB's.

Extremely interesting and informative. I waited until my other one was 4 until properly backed but was critised for this at the time as it was felt he should start at 3 but i held on any way and im glad i did.

I will wait until this one is 4 as well. He does most of the things on the list and hes only 2 but hasnt had any tack put on him as he is just enjoying being 2. Thank you
 

Britestar

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Good article. I'm another who prefers to wait. My youngster is 4.5yrs and will be started in the spring at rising 5. I think a bit of patience when they are younger pays dividend when they are older. My last 3 homebreds were 6,6 and 5 when they were broken.
 

ellie_e

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I should of said, mentally other than physically. However I have found that in my experience they seem to fill out later than other breeds for instance at 7/8yrs mine started filling into his body, shoulders chest bigger etc where as the ISH horses we've had have been both mentally and physically mutured at the same age
 

rowy

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My connie x is 3 years and 4 months and all I have done is sit on her 3 times and walk around. She is very physically immature even though mentally she could easily cope with work as she is a lot less babyish than other youngsters I have had.
I am going to leave her till at least spring, just over the winter make sure she has all the nutrition she needs to grow strong and healthy and do a bit of groundwork with her :)
 

Equilibrium Ireland

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Well I start mine at 3. The first session is usually 6 weeks of learning the basics the turned away. Go again in the autumn of 3yo year and then off again. Then you can assess at 4 phyisically and mentally. Now I guess you all can say I'm a butcher, but let's see. I have zero blemishes on legs, I don't have vets and physios
 

ladyt25

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Well, mine is 3 (willbe 4 in spring) and I started sitting on him a few months ago and then in Oct I took 2 weeks off work and did a bit more work with him tacked up. Idon't jave facilities to do bits with him every day or anything like that so currently I am just getting on him at weekends. Even just doing this though I notice him changing and learning andI managed to ride him all the way up our track, turn him round and walk him all the way back down! :) He is learning the basics essentially - listening to leg aids, halting and turning. He really seems to want to do stuff, he doesn't want to be turned back out once he's come in and had his attention. In fact when i rode him up the track he wasn't 100% sure he wanted to turn round and go back, I think he's have liked to have gone up the road for a little wander as I have walked him out in hand and he just seems to like to be out and about doing stuff!

Maybe I will be brave and hack him up the road in a couple of weeks.......!

I do think you have to judge it on the individual horse and not expect too much from them it's just more about them accepting having someone aboard and trusting that person to be in control.
 

Equilibrium Ireland

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I don't have vets and physios out monthly checking for pain and other issues. Not because I don't want to but because I don't have to.

Patch, I'm not sure what the problem is here. I was firmly in your corner in previous posts. You waited til 4 and then threw everything at your horse at once and now wonder why he's mentally not the same horse. Always the same with people. Always worried about the physical side of things and don't give any thought to the mental side. So what he's super talented. These are the easiest to mess up because they get things quicker than other horses. And we're so busy enjoying the talent one forgets this may not be in their best interest. People fain patience by waiting til 4 or later to break their horses and then once broken they can't wait to get into the thick of things. Then are surprised when horse goes backwards mentally. People can tell you all you want he's a competition horse now to band aid the fact it all happened to quick.

And then, since everyone is so concerned with a horses physical well being, how do we justify starting a young horse and keeping them stood in all day bar work? Horse is now using muscles it never has before and yet because he's a competition horse you keep them cooped up. Then surprise surprise we start having small physical and mental issues. In your horses case big mental issues.

Look it your happy to continue on the same because you have a competition horse and no one else could ever understand that. Well last I checked I didn't break all happy hackers. Group winners and horse I've sold to America in competition homes. All started the same way. All sympathetic to the mental and physical side. And if I had one of mine starting to act like yours did I would have been very concerned.

The gold medal winning individual dressage horse Valegro gets turned out. Pretty sure he counts as a competition horse and I'm pretty sure he wasn't put under saddle at the back end of his 4yo year. Nor did they go from zero to 60 with and extremely talented horse and ruin him mentally.

A horse can have all the talent in the world and yet can be ruined mentally. Takes more than physical to be a top competition horse and it's a rumor that they are all quirky and somewhat mean. I know what a fit horse is, trust me.

Terri
 

Thistle

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E Ire, I'm with you!

I longline gently at 2, turn away, again at 3 followed by light backing and very short quiet hacks, any schoolwork done in hand, turn away. At 4 repeat basics and progress. I don't like having to work with the horses when it is cold and dark, the youngsters get holidays then. They grow up slowly, spend most of their time out in the field but at the same time get used to a little bit of a mental workout so nothing comes as a nasty surprise.

It's all done in short sessions (15/20 mins) and a couple of times a week when the weather is nice and I feel like it. Works for me and the horses are polite, nice horses to be around.

It's a bit like a kid starting school, first they go to mum and toddler play groups, then nursery school, then full time infant school before eventually getting down to proper work.
 

Firewell

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Personally I would wait. I got my horse (TB) at 4.5yrs he was 15.3hh and very slight. He is 7 now and nearly 16.2hh and twice the width.
Personally for the sake of 6 months I would wait and break him at 4. I'd rather have a horse that works in to his 20's then one that breaks by his teens. They grow up so much between 3 and 7 whatever breed they are.
 

Thistle

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Just to add to my post, I don't ask my youngsters to do any more than they would do, loose, in the field with their friends, they don't even get a sweat despite being hairy and un rugged/unclipped. The backing rider weighs less than 8stone.
 

Polotash

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I do a bit with mine at 3, then turn away, then start again in the spring they're 4.

This year with my three year old I did one of the following once a week:

15 mins long reining
10 mins lunging (mostly walk, a little trot)
40 mins led out in hand (our shortest around the block loop)
5 mins led in hand in the school with full tack, teaching left, right and stop with the reins, followed by 2 mins sat on.
The last thing I did with her before she was turned away again was lead her round the block in full tack and hop on on the flat sections. I did this twice, and then turned her out again.

I started her in July, did the above for 12 weeks and stopped at the end of Sept when the weather was grotty. She'll probably start again in April, and stay in work (two-three times a week, usually 1 school, 1 hack and 1 lunge) for the summer before being turned away again.
 

Luci07

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If i had a very big horse then I would back at 3, then turn away.

however, i have learnt from watching my YO back a variety of babies and she actually does not take the route of 4, backed and thats it. Her babies seem to get chunks of work, then a holiday. As an eg, her 4 year old WB x was backed and turned away at 3, back into work at 4, hacking and mentally able to cope. Was worked and competed in 1 BYEH 4 year old class. Then turned away for the rest of the summer again. Now coming back into work but just hacking. Her 5 year was out competing at BE100 and did a stint, then got taken off the circuit, given 3 weeks break and then up again as she felt he needed a mental break and downtime. He is now 6 and did a full season this year culminating in his first 1*, came home and then had another holiday and break for a month. We were thinking mine will need a break at some point just to switch off but will use the yearly snow break for that. Does anyone else favour this approach? YO is not prescriptive either so does depend on each horse though the WB x def take longer just to get used to their new life!
 

kirstykate

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Yep I would have no problems lightly backing a 3yo, some gentle walk trot and a little canter work, wouldn’t worry about to much collection and correct outlines more just in introduction to schooling in a fun way and allowing it to develop natural balance and mouth up to a bit gently with a rider onboard short sessions wouldnt want to bore it a few weeks of that should not be a problem chuck it away and leave it to mature and start again as a 4yo.
 

fine_and_dandy

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I did all the groundwork with my boy, and focused on teaching him to lunge, long rein and go out in hand with another horse on hacks, as well as leaning on him.

He was due to be started when he was just over 3.5, but he needed treatment for a sarcoid on his ear and so we waited until he had finished that treatment and just turned 4. Actually, I think it did him good as he had time to think about what we had been doing with him, and mentally in the time he was having treatment, he matured. We gave him another month off after about 6 weeks [bloody sarcoid came back and needed more treatment but was a lot quicker] and once vet gave go ahead [as didn't want to make him head or ear shy] we started again and he has been in consistent work ever since, bar when I've thought he needed a break for a couple of weeks.

He has taken to his work really enthusiastically, and although can be a PITA at times, is a willing boy and I'm glad I did things the way I did. Our approach with him was a bit more slow and steady, but with horses there is no one size fits all, and some horses will learn quicker than others; my horse takes a little bit of time before he gets something and I'm in no rush.
 

zizz

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Depends what you mean by 'backing'.

Mine are all sat on at two, but aren't ever lunged or long reined until the autumn of their third year at the earliest.

Nothing wrong with getting them to see you above their eyeline and being used to you doing silly things like laying accross and sliding off out in the field. Plenty wrong with young legs trotting in small circles!
 

Christsam

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It depends on the horse as well. My boy is rising 4. He lunges, long reins and has been very lightly backed. I have not done anything out of walk on him yet or ask him to do too much in the way of turning/circles as I do not feel he is ready physically or mentally yet. He will continue to do light work through the winter although with work and the dark this will be limited more than likely to weekends, so just enough to keep his interest and keep him ticking over. I did speak to my vet about this, who agreed that what I was doing was fine for him at his stage of development and I did not really want to be doing much more until the Spring at least.

However, his half bro is 5 months younger than him and was backed at 3 before mine as he is already standing 17.2hh and is a lot more developed both physically and mentally than mine. So, it all really depends on the horse.

E ireland, I asked your advice on fully breaking him and have made a decision now to break him myself and have booked April off to be able to work with him. This gives the beginning of the Spring to be able to work with him but not overdo it, whilst not leaving it too late as he will be 4 and 3 months in April.

Should also say that he is not in 24 hours and I like to keep him out as much as possible as he is one of those who hates being in for long periods of time.
 
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Thistle

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Depends what you mean by 'backing'.

Mine are all sat on at two, but aren't ever lunged or long reined until the autumn of their third year at the earliest.

Nothing wrong with getting them to see you above their eyeline and being used to you doing silly things like laying accross and sliding off out in the field. Plenty wrong with young legs trotting in small circles!

long lining in straight lines on tracks. Hacking = slow wander on same tracks
 

First Time Mum

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Depends on the horse and there mental ability. Mine had a roller and bridle on at 2 walked round in hand. Long lined off and on from 3 - 3.5 generally 4 weeks on and then a couple of weeks off. About 6 weeks ago was sat on walke, trotted and couple of tiny canters. She now gets long line (about 15 minutes on tuesdays) mini 1/2 hour lesson on Sat morning just walk and trot, and are shortly going to try a little hack on Sundays. When it gets cold and icy she will be having time off as do not want her 'schooling' 3 times a week. Plan when she is 4 is to do a bit and learn, consolidate learning (do it again) then have a few weeks going up and down lanes hacking couple of times a week of to digest the new information.
 

Equilibrium Ireland

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Well here goes the flames now. I "back" my foals! LOL! If they're laying down in or out, I throw my leg across with my other leg taking all my weight before we start calling the ISPCA. No weight ever on their backs ever. But come backing time, it really is a non event. Plus it's nice to have babies that are completely non fussed and relaxed with just about anything you do.

Terri
 

Christsam

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Well here goes the flames now. I "back" my foals! LOL! If they're laying down in or out, I throw my leg across with my other leg taking all my weight before we start calling the ISPCA. No weight ever on their backs ever. But come backing time, it really is a non event. Plus it's nice to have babies that are completely non fussed and relaxed with just about anything you do.

Terri

:eek::eek::eek::eek: your poor foalies!!!!! lol. no weight on them so its not doing any harm!!! I often thought about doing that with mine but know damn well the little bugger probably would have just stood up!
 

patch1234

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I don't have vets and physios out monthly checking for pain and other issues. Not because I don't want to but because I don't have to.

Patch, I'm not sure what the problem is here. I was firmly in your corner in previous posts. You waited til 4 and then threw everything at your horse at once and now wonder why he's mentally not the same horse. Always the same with people. Always worried about the physical side of things and don't give any thought to the mental side. So what he's super talented. These are the easiest to mess up because they get things quicker than other horses. And we're so busy enjoying the talent one forgets this may not be in their best interest. People fain patience by waiting til 4 or later to break their horses and then once broken they can't wait to get into the thick of things. Then are surprised when horse goes backwards mentally. People can tell you all you want he's a competition horse now to band aid the fact it all happened to quick.

And then, since everyone is so concerned with a horses physical well being, how do we justify starting a young horse and keeping them stood in all day bar work? Horse is now using muscles it never has before and yet because he's a competition horse you keep them cooped up. Then surprise surprise we start having small physical and mental issues. In your horses case big mental issues.

Look it your happy to continue on the same because you have a competition horse and no one else could ever understand that. Well last I checked I didn't break all happy hackers. Group winners and horse I've sold to America in competition homes. All started the same way. All sympathetic to the mental and physical side. And if I had one of mine starting to act like yours did I would have been very concerned.

The gold medal winning individual dressage horse Valegro gets turned out. Pretty sure he counts as a competition horse and I'm pretty sure he wasn't put under saddle at the back end of his 4yo year. Nor did they go from zero to 60 with and extremely talented horse and ruin him mentally.

A horse can have all the talent in the world and yet can be ruined mentally. Takes more than physical to be a top competition horse and it's a rumor that they are all quirky and somewhat mean. I know what a fit horse is, trust me.

Terri

Hello, this post is nothing to do with previous horse it is a general enquiry as I have a 2 year old as well and was wondering what peoples views were on the matter.

The previous horse is already backed now at 4 rightly or wrongly but it is now done. Luckily he has settled down now and I have no worries about him.

I am happy to try at 3 or 4 makes no difference really as this lad is completely different so it will depend on him really.

Thank you for your comments.
 
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