Adverts making me cross!

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Lauren_abigail

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As I usually do once a week or so, I have a bit of a nose at horses for sale.

I have seen a video this morning for a lovely looking 16.1 grey gelding, potential to move beautifully and a lovely jump.

However.

The idiot riding him is strapping his head so far into his chest the poor thing is practically falling over. And he is making the gelding JUMP like that.

Clearly a very honest little chap as he is trying his best to jump this way.

Why do people do this? I see it a lot from 'professional' dealers and it just makes me despair!!!
 
Calm down dear, its only an advert. I've seen a lot worse in the professional ring, and infinitely worse in the amateur ring. The rider has an enviably light seat and excellent stable leg position. My own horse used to drop her chin and try to get her head up in the same way. She was just being evasive because she wanted to do everything her way. Unless you know the animal personally you aren't qualified to condemn the rider.
 
I wouldn't say the horse was strapped down at all. He only has a running martingale on which is perfectly acceptable for jumping. The rider has still hands and you can see that the horse is dropping behind the contact rather than being pulled in.
 
After reading your OP I really was expecting a horse falling over itself being man handled and probably with a ridiculous bit and covered in unneccessary tack... Seemed fine to me sorry I agree with others rider has quiet hands and nice seat, horse has ears forward occasionally flicking back to listen to rider and seems comfortable enough jumping.
 
I would say it's not bad. The horse is weak behind and struggling to balance, hence the dropping behind the bit. The riders hands are low and wide to try and stabilise the horse. I would personally like the horse to be stronger. The rider is clearly a pro or experienced dealing rider that knows how to sit quietly and hold the horse.
 
He's not supporting the horse, he's constantly subtly socking it in the mouth to get its head in. Rider's not even happy with OTV - apparently it looks nicer to be behind :)
 
I think this post shows the OP's lack of experience tbh - horse is in a loose running martingale and a plain cavesson noseband - hardly strapped down. Admittedly, he is overbent on the flat, but on approach to the fence, he is opening her frame and taking the rider to the fence. Jumps nicely when he gets there.

The overbent outline would suggest previous work in draw reins for a quick fix outline, as the horse looks green for his age, but I wouldn't slate the rider for the way he's producing him for the video. He's obviously not yet established enough for a correct outline to be consistent, and is offering that outline himself.

Nice sort - not a world beater, but could be a lot of fun for someone
 
spacefaer said:
I wouldn't slate the rider for the way he's producing him for the video. He's obviously not yet established enough for a correct outline to be consistent, and is offering that outline himself.
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Given that being on the bit is a way of going for the whole body and not a set head position, the rider's offering the horse nothing at all in terms of getting him to work thoroughly. Better to get this horse working for himself than try to pin him in and make him look nice for the camera.

I've seen so many horses with their heads strapped down or having their mouths see-sawed on to get the head in, I'm starting to doubt the true meaning of being 'on the bit'.
 
He is subtly (or not so subtly, to some)checking the horse repeatedly, in a misguided attempt, I presume, to get its head down or in the misnomer of the century an 'outline'
 
SpringArising said:
Given that being on the bit is a way of going for the whole body and not a set head position, the rider's offering the horse nothing at all in terms of getting him to work thoroughly. Better to get this horse working for himself than try to pin him in and make him look nice for the camera.

I've seen so many horses with their heads strapped down or having their mouths see-sawed on to get the head in, I'm starting to doubt the true meaning of being 'on the bit'.
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I'd agree - I would just add I never said the rider was trying to get him on the bit - it's just an outline, and in this video, the horse is offering an overbent one. It's not a video of the horse being schooled, merely showing his paces on each rein, giving the viewer a taste of the horse.

The viewer can always sit in the horse themselves and test him out......
 
spacefaer said:
The viewer can always sit in the horse themselves and test him out......
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True. But the problem is that a horse being ridden like this will put a lot of people off IMO. I'm always wary when I see horses being started or ridden like this - it makes me wonder what niggles the horse might have as a result of harsh riding (but hands especially) and from being forced to work in a way that's not particularly comfortable or natural for the horse. I would much rather see a horse moving forwards (freely) than to see a horse's way of going being compromised for the sake of a few $$.
 
I've seen a lot worse and was expecting to see something horrific from the original post. The horse looks as though it is lacking in some basic schooling and I was surprised to see it was already 7. Yes, the rider's hands weren't perfect but in the main I liked the lightness and balance of his seat.
 
If this is a professional, they are selling what people want to see, its wrong but they know their market. I have watched young horses held together for a dressage test, snaffle, no martingale but pro riders holding them together by core strength and subtle but fixed hands to force a head carriage that a buyer would think was 'on the bit' and working through, with the same objective a quick sale.
While people want to buy the finished look on something that should be just be going forward in a natural carriage it will continue.
 
I agree with SpringArising and ChesnutsRoasting, a young horse being shown in a false outline, by being socked in the gob, in an over arty video. A very weak back end and way of going for an animal being asked t jump. I certainly don't think that the OP is lacking knowledge, but a few posters seem to be lacking in 'eye'
 
YorksG said:
I agree with SpringArising and ChesnutsRoasting, a young horse being shown in a false outline, by being socked in the gob, in an over arty video. A very weak back end and way of going for an animal being asked t jump. I certainly don't think that the OP is lacking knowledge, but a few posters seem to be lacking in 'eye'
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And the horse is being pushed onto the forehand by the rider who tips forward on the flat. IME it is very rare to see a horse which is for sale being well-ridden.
 
YorksG said:
I agree with SpringArising and ChesnutsRoasting, a young horse being shown in a false outline, by being socked in the gob, in an over arty video. A very weak back end and way of going for an animal being asked t jump. I certainly don't think that the OP is lacking knowledge, but a few posters seem to be lacking in 'eye'
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Pearlsasinger said:
And the horse is being pushed onto the forehand by the rider who tips forward on the flat. IME it is very rare to see a horse which is for sale being well-ridden.
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Agreed
 
I think this is a really sweet horse, I really like him!

He isn't as 'strapped down' as much as I was expecting, I think the guy riding him is not doing a great job as he is clearly too handy.

I also think though that the horse must be fairly green, my youngster tends to overland a bit, but I try hard to ride from the leg rather than the hand, which it doesn't look like the rider is doing at all, so not helping the horse much.
 
joulsey said:
I love how people are commenting without even seeing the wording on the advert?
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Why do we need to see the wording on the ad to comment on the horse and the way it is ridden? All comments that I have read, both those that I agree with and those I disagree with, comment on the horse, its way of going and the possible reasons for that. No-one has commented on the horse's price/value, or even the quality of the ad, which has you say most people haven't seen.
 
Because people are presuming it had been ridden harshly in draw reins, produced quickly for a fast sale etc etc. TBF that may well be the case, but the ad could give background on the horse, as to why he is so green for his age, and say how he needs bringing on. On the other hand the ad could say the horse is established and could go out and do BD/BS tomorrow!
 
Yes, that video makes me cross too. But then a lot of modern riding does. Unfortunately this sort of riding and way of going is now seen as normal and desireable and if you look at the ads over there >>> the majority of horses are behind the vertical and strung out behind.
 
TBH that's about what I expect to see if going to view a weak for it's age 7yo for sale a dealers .
It's got a decent jump in it .
 
I'd buy him, looks lovely to me! Just green. He's got a nice relaxed jump. OP, you haven't provided the wording of the advert so we can only comment on the opinions you've given and the link! I think its quite rude to slag someones riding off if I'm honest. Nobody is perfect! If there is actual cruelty / nastiness involved then of course it would be a different story but this guy is letting the horse run on quite happily and to be honest who cares if it isn't in a perfect outline! The horse won't care less ;) I prefer to see that than those horses that are uber controlled machines and can't so much as step sideways without a telling off by their rider.
 
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joulsey said:
Because people are presuming it had been ridden harshly in draw reins, produced quickly for a fast sale etc etc. TBF that may well be the case, but the ad could give background on the horse, as to why he is so green for his age, and say how he needs bringing on. On the other hand the ad could say the horse is established and could go out and do BD/BS tomorrow!
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I doubt that even if it has, the ad would terll the world that it has been ridden in draw-reins. The ad could say anything at all, many of them are fairy stories! P:eople were discussing what they can see in the video - a green horse, which is over-bent, on the forehand with a strong rider who keeps pulling it in with his hands. None of that is speculation - it is all quite obvious to those who know what they are looking at. Which any-one who is looking at ads with a view to buying should do.
 
Having watched the short clip of this horse, I see it as a very green, weak horse that tends to be a bit of a 'banana'. Head up and working from the forehand. The rider, imo, is doing what they can to promote a sale, again, it is a short video but they are balanced, light and correcting the horse at the right times.

The horse is falling behind the bit from lack of muscle, balance and lack of flexion throughout the body. The rider is asking 'don't be stiff in your neck or drop onto your forehand' and the horse is saying 'it's really hard to lift my back and use my engine'.

Really nice sort of horse and I really don't have a problem with the rider at all. The horse just needs more correct work and I think in time that rider could do that but the horse is for sale so the rider is doing what they can to show the horses potential.
 
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