Advice and thoughts needed for Dim Tim please

AdorableAlice

AdorableAlice

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Dim Tim is a homebred 4 year old (June foal) by a TB NH/event stallion out of a vanner mare. Dim Tim is currently 16.3 and weak. I am expecting him to mature at or near to 17.2h. Grass fed only, not overweight and with a golden temperament, his feet are a long way from his brain and his concentration span is that of a goldfish so work sessions are short and sweet, always ending before he is either bored and/or tired.

He was broken in April without any issues, willing and calm throughout. His wolf teeth came out as a 2 year old, he is totally sound in mind and body. His tack fits, his bit is a fulmer. He is carrying a very experienced, balanced male rider who, with tack is 12st. He has never shown any resistance to his baby work which is kept short and is not daily. He can walk trot and canter under saddle, established transitions up and down, halt very good and has rein back steps in too. He is balanced on 20m circles in all 3 gaits, serpentines in trot and has leg yield in walk, trot is a little wobbly.

He did a little hacking around our 20 minute on the level, village loop in July, a little spooky in traffic (we have big tractors), but with rock steady Martha at his side, he was a very good boy. During these hacks he began throwing his head up and down violently, only in walk, to the extent his riders glasses were knocked off on one ride. He did not head shake from side to side nor did he show signs of allergy/pollen irritation. I do not use martingales and all he had on was a neck strap with his snaffle/cavesson noseband bridle. Given this behaviour and an obvious lack of steering we decided hacking was not safe.

He had 3 weeks off late July early August due to other horses in the yard being sick but has now been working through September in school and in the fields. He shows no inclination to throw his head when working in school or fields either under saddle or on the lunge, in any gait.

Today he did 10 minutes hacking in the fields before going out onto the lanes for half a mile leading us to stubble fields and a woodland track ride. He has never been on this route before and other than a big spook and run off when a group of ducks got up off a pond and frightened him, he was a good boy. However after the spook he began throwing his head on every walk step, to such an extent I was worried he would chuck the reins over his head. His rider had to take a strong hold and do a lot of flexion to keep the situation mildly safe. We went into trot and the head throwing instantly stops. We decided not to continue and did a couple of figure of eights to turn round, rather than just a direct turn round. The head throwing continued and, much against my better judgement, we decided to get into trot and trot the half mile back up the track and fields to get home. The head throwing stopped and the trot was swinging, balanced and forwards. (my rock steady Martha, proceeded to canter sideways and squeal !) Dim Tim took not notice of her appalling behaviour. Back on the yard Dim Tim was taken into the school to walk and there was no head throwing.

I am totally puzzled by this behaviour. If it is an evasion why does he not do it in the school or home fields ? If he is struggling with his work or his muscles are sore surely he would do it in the school where the work is harder or more intense for him. It only appears hacking and only in walk. Is he stressed off the yard ? He has been boxed and worked in other peoples schools and not shown the behaviour. He is a very calm level headed horse, I know every minute of his life and experiences - I bred him. I am tempted to put a standing on him in the morning, it will stop broken glasses or a nosebleed for his poor rider, maybe a draw rein ? I really am at a loss and I have done plenty of horses across the decades. My only thought would be he cannot control his walk stride, it is massive, it will be a 9 in the dressage arena, it has a huge over step.

So, come on HHo, help Dim Tim please.
 
AA, I would definitely use either standing martingale or draw reins used to stop the head flinging up (but not to hold it down, iyswim).

Is it possible he simply wants to crack on and doesn't like walking along quietly? A bit like a horse which jogs, maybe?

Is it possible that his feet hurt on the hard surface of the road and it bothers him unless he's cracking on at a faster pace? The unforgiving surface combined with the slow breakover might be tweaking something? Does he land heel first, toe first, or flat? If not heel first or flat, I would suspect that.

It's an odd one, for sure! Can't you just ask him?
 
Is he headshaking - do you think? Alf headshakes in walk out hacking, but doesn't do it in trot/canter, or when he is concentrating in the school.
It can vary from flicking his nose, to chucking his head around violently and bringing his front feet off the ground. I give him Respiraid, and he wears a nosenet, which stops it completely
 
I had a large cob that did this...but only when young. He did it when walking on a hard surface, never in trot. I always put it down to impatience and at some time around six years old, he stopped and I'd forgotten all about it until your post. It wasn't such a violent motion as yours though...he certainly never came near my head.
 
Maybe he is starting to grow into himself and feel well? My old boy used to do a sort of neck snake head toss before doing a squealbogoff.
 
Does he long rein ok AA? If so I would be tempted to take him out on the long reins to the same area where he did it before. If it's a stress/nerves thing, the a month long rein hacking may build.his confidence without knocking his rider unconscious.
 
Thanks learned ones, good thoughts as I had hoped. His sister, Adorable Alice is going to have a word with him and see if he will confess all his inner troubles. Alice was a good girl to break and ride away, her default was to lie down when she thought enough was enough. It disappeared for a while but she did it recently in the collecting ring after prize giving for a hunter class. Maybe she isn't the right one to chat to Dim Tim and he is most certainly not allowed to chat to Ted The Twit !

So in summary, I have a bonkers carthorse, an attractive small hunter who spends most of her life on her side and a potential middleweight hunter who thinks he is a nodding dog. Time for a hobby change !
 
I think I would turn him away to grow up a bit more, over the winter and cross my fingers that he has grown out of it by Spring. It does sound as if it could be something to do with his balance/overstriding.
 
video him in the arena and on the road , (sideways on )to compare his stride , maybe he needs to be pushed on more in walk on the road to occupy his mind more after being distracted, in the field and arena you are schooling him so he is occupied and engaged.
 
AdorableAlice said:
Thanks learned ones, good thoughts as I had hoped. His sister, Adorable Alice is going to have a word with him and see if he will confess all his inner troubles. Alice was a good girl to break and ride away, her default was to lie down when she thought enough was enough. It disappeared for a while but she did it recently in the collecting ring after prize giving for a hunter class. Maybe she isn't the right one to chat to Dim Tim and he is most certainly not allowed to chat to Ted The Twit !

So in summary, I have a bonkers carthorse, an attractive small hunter who spends most of her life on her side and a potential middleweight hunter who thinks he is a nodding dog. Time for a hobby change !
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I have absolutely nothing useful to add, but I do love the descriptions of your herd. :D
 
Both my freisians have done this as an excited, anxious sort of evasion. Popped an elastic bungee on like the standing martingale but a little softer. The older one has outgrown it and the baby is getting there without the use of a bungee so far, but then she's a bit more joggy....
 
I would certainly put a standing martingale on him for ridden hacking ATM.
It does sound like head shaking starting .
If it where me my next step would getting him hacking led from another horse in a group of three or more if at all possible .
It might just be stress and he has the balance to express it in walk but not in trot .
If you can do the riding and leading I would get him out round a few rides as much as possible for a few weeks then try one of those rides ridden .
 
I have an elasticated standing martingale for using on young horses who go through this phase. It's really common, particularly with horses who are a bit tired (often happens on the way home), or a bit stressed (as you say, yours gets worried in traffic), or who have nothing else to concentrate on at that moment (when they are just walking along and not really working).

An elasticated standing will act as a bit of a deterrent without being too restrictive, but more importantly will save your rider from getting a whack on the nose.

Work through it, but tbh it sounds like your horse would benefit from a lot more hacking (mine hardly go in the school in their first year ridden, I do practically everything out and about).
 
cobgoblin said:
I had a large cob that did this...but only when young. He did it when walking on a hard surface, never in trot. I always put it down to impatience and at some time around six years old, he stopped and I'd forgotten all about it until your post. It wasn't such a violent motion as yours though...he certainly never came near my head.
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I also had a cob that did the same when she was 5. It was very much an impatience thing with her and again it only happened when walking on a hack. An instructor advised that I fixed my hands firmly at the withers and basically ignored it. She did eventually give up when she realised she was socking herself in the mouth and it wasn't getting her anywhere. It felt mean and I didn't like doing it but it did work. I imagine their are better ways of dealing with it these days.
 
One of my baby Police Horses did this, he was HUUUUUUge in height (but quite breedy), and also had a big over track. When he came he was so unbalanced he struggled to trot round the school.

He did the head tossing for about 6 months, in fact I remember the first day he was not so bad, I actually took my phone out and videoed him walking with a still head, it was so momentous. I think he stopped as he strengthened up. He also did not do it on the school or when working in trot/canter.

I just used a snaffle, but then he never did knock glasses off. If he had, then I would have considered a standing martingale. I did not follow the toss with my hands, but did not react to it adversely either. He finished up a fab horse, went really well on the school, great in traffic and a low and steady head carriage. He did not become a head shaker.
 
Mine is like this too, exactly the same although he's a small chap, 15.2h but with a large stride and over tracks. It's always on the walk home when out hacking but if we pushed up into trot the head throwing would stop. And it is definitely more like head throwing than shaking - he really puts some bloody effort into it.

However, as he is a dramatic little sod he also made long sighing noises and did a lot of heavy snorting as if all he wanted to do was go to bed. He's very good and never looks at anything on the roads, I figured it was him switching off and tiredness taking over. Although our hacks were always easier than our schooling, there was an awful lot to look at for a young horse so maybe his brain was in overdrive whilst out in the fields?

He's torn his hamstring now so looks to be having a long time off work. But it will be interesting to see when I (hopefully) bring him back into work in the spring as a 5 year old, if he still does it.
 
You said it was just after a spook at some ducks... do you think he might have just pulled a muscle? His bridle/saddle/girth might have just moved to somewhere uncomfortable? My youngster did it to a certain extent at 4 - I changed the browband to a longer one and that was the end of that.

Youngsters eh... who'd have 'em!
 
My 5 year old does exactly this. Only in walk and only hacking. Mainly on the way home after a hack. I always put it down to impatience, its good to see most have grown out of this as it is the most annoying thing to sit to!
 
I had two who did this. I put a schooling whip in the path of where they were going to throw their head up and let them train themselves out of it. I didn't actually hit them, they tapped their own head off the schooling whip. I think it's a young horse bit tired but impatient to get home thing and not something I would worry about unduly. I think now I think about it mine were both Welsh Ds and they are after all, famed for impatience!
 
My horse used to do this out of boredom, repetitive up downs all day long if he was allowed - could it be that walking along hacking isn't mentally stimulating enough for him?

Luckily we've grown up and grown out of it now.
 
I routinely ride just backed horses in standing elastic martingales, a very underused and useful bit of kit. Sounds like yours would benefit from lots more hacking with a standing, if the problem persists then explore alternatives.
 
My young horse did this out hacking for a few months - mainly when tired or if she felt the ride had gone on long enough. She will also revert if our hacking companion is walking too slow (in her opinion) and she are at the back. I put it down to tiredness and aching muscles although that doesn't fit with him working happily in the school. She grew out of it mostly.
 
We get this occasionally when re-educating the young ex-racers. In cases like Dim Tim's they'd be ridden in a Market Harborough. You can fine tune the settings a bit better than with a standing martingale. They do grow out of it. With a little bit of help.
 
Thank you for all the thoughts, past experiences and the pm's. All very helpful for us.

Dim Tim went on his first adventure yesterday, a trip in the truck to a yard with an indoor school. He was hacked around the yard with no head tossing as he was 'eyes on stalks' at his new environment and screaming at anything that was remotely horse shaped in the distance. The indoor didn't faze him at all and he give himself a kiss when shown the mirrors, a very different reaction to that of his friend Ted The Twit who was terrified of himself in the mirrors.

We were really pleased with Dim Tim overall, he has been asleep ever since. I am relieved to hear how common the head tossing is and have a much better understanding of it now.
 
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