advice for hard mouthed pony

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maree t

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Hi, anybody got any advice, my daughters pony 13.3hh nfx cob is very hard mouthed. he leans on her (she is a skinny 12 years old) and so we changed to a loose ring to help but he just ignores her.We have had to change to a gag for jumping but she enjoys doing dressage and family pony classes so is really limited on her choice of bit. He is a cracking allrounder but this is starting to spoil it. She has weekly dressage lessons and works hard on transitions but when he wants to keep going he just keeps going.She tries to be really soft with her hands , he is 14 years is there any ideas that may help?
 
Can your instructor not recommend a bit? (S)he will (hopefully) be able to see what the problem is and which bit could help.

I did get the impression that you wanted a "one bit cures all" scenario. However, what works for hacking/SJ/XC might/will be completely different than for flatwork. You don't necessarily have to have the same bit for everything.
 
one bit cures all would be nice after the faff about yesterday between dressage, jumping and show class:( but was hoping for perhaps excersices or schooling tips to lighten the front end and help him listen. he was owned by a 15 years old strong rider before and riding school before that
 
I'd stick to the loose ring for dressage, it's a nice bit and then work on schooling as you say.

Maybe a different instructor if this one isn't really helping to improve him?

Also, lots of transitions and transitions within paces to get him listening. Don't just do it on straight lines but on circles and other school figures as well. Keep changing up the exercises, i.e. do lots of serpentines, circles, changes of rein and simple lateral work like leg yielding to get him off his forehand.

Also, lunging would be useful to help strenghten him backend and get him lighter in front

Hope that helps :)
 
I think you're absolutely right to be looking for a schooling solution rather than a bitting solution. However do check that the pony is comfortable in his mouth - I guess you've already had his teeth checked and he's in a bit he likes (I am rather anti-single jointed snaffles because they pinch the tongue but your instructor's opinion is rather more important than mine at this point).
I agree with what Andy said about the lateral flexions. The brakes aren't in their mouth, they're in their head. You're doing exactly the right thing with the dressage lessons and having her learn about exercises to supple him. Do lots of circles and transitions to lighten the forehand and get him really listening to her. The bendier he is (so the better his lateral flexion is), the better the brakes will be.
And the one rein stop that Andy mentioned is an excellent emergency stop. I can stop mine (Welsh D) on one rein out galloping in company because they just don't have anything to pull against. Two reins, they can pull back.
The other thing that your daughter is probably learning in her dressage lessons is about using the seat and legs to stop rather than relying on the bridle. The more she can do that, the more the pony will trust her hand and come to it becoming softer and lighter in the mouth. I am really learning this myself so her instructor will do a far better job of explaining it but basically to stop you use phases. First you stop the seatbones following the horse's action so you get out of sync and the horse is cue'd to stop too. If he still doesn't stop close the thighs to block the forward motion. If he still doesn't stop you stop following the movement with the hand and block with the outside rein. At no point should you be pulling with the reins. Sorry, probably a really bad explanation but your instructor will explain really well. Top dressage riders (like the Spanish riding school) would take the bridle off and ride just with their seat, no problem. I think my instructor could too.
 
Depends if the pony is leaning on the bit for balance/avoid using hind end, or if it truly is 'hard mouthed'.

1) If it's a balance issue/on the forehand, this can be caused by stiffness/pain behind, or by riding that is not skilled enough to make sure the front end is lifted. If this is a recent thing and the pony was fine beforehand, I'd get a full MOT for the pony - back, saddle, mouth, gait analysis. If not, dtill get an MOT, and then get a new instructor, and/or check your daughter is really following the advice given!

2) Hard mouthed ponies are made that way either by pain in the mouth from their teeth, or from 'busy' hands so they learn to ignore them. Again - get the teeth checked (and just because they've been done recently doesn't nec mean the person did a great job and didn't miss something), and if they're fine, again, new instructor!

The main cure if pain is eliminated is for the rider to reschool the pony to stop/turn/respond to seat aids, so the pony has nothing to lean on, and the rider no need to have busy/pulling hands. I do that on the lunge, first combined with voice aids from the ground, then just seat, then once seat aids are confirmed, seat with light rein contact. Then in an enclosed space, turning and stopping from the seat. Once that is sorted and control is re-established, lots of circles, turns, lateral work, transitions to improve hind end engagment, with a bit that has a 'back up' function (i.e. something with two reins - ride off the top rein, bottom rein for emergencies only, so there is a snaffle feeling usually). Once pony going nicely always, swap back to a snaffle and only one rein. Never let pony lean on hands - more then a polite contact and go down a pace (or several) so pony learns that trying to go faster = stop = boring!

But seriously, get a new instructor or make your daughter listen clearly to this one, whichever is the issue. The above needs to be done under supervision from someone who knows what they're doing.
 
thanks for all advice so far. Pony has had back teeth and saddle checked. The osteo said he was a little stiff in one hock which we think he already had, we are doing excersices in hand over pole work to help this. He is pretty dead to the leg aswell. My daughter uses very good seat aids which seem very effective on other ponies but this one just gets a bit rude. She asked him to canter during a schooling session and then wouldnt stop, not running away, not going fast just totally ignoring her signals to stop. He must have cantered round on 20 metre circle so many times he was getting dizzy:confused:. He is a stocky lad so think I might get the instructor to school him at the start of the lessons for a while. Ground has been so hard we have been limited between lessons to work on the transitions.
Hope I havent made him sound too bad because he is great and we love him and trust him but want to improve the dressage scores
 
I had a 13 year old that was similar, expected to have its head hauled in as soon as I got on. Needed someone to hold her while I got my butt in the saddle and then she'd tank off expecting to have her mouth taken hold of. Got pain (teeth and back) issues sorted and then let her run around the school til she realised I wasn't going to grab her mouth. Riding quietly from the seat, she'd relax and come back to me. I was probably lucky with her as it didn't take that long for her to adapt to a new way of going.
 
Oops, cross posted with you there. He doesn't sound like my example at all. Like Mystiandsunny's advice re lunge.
Does he respond well to voice aids ? If he isn't understanding daughter's cues, voice aids may initially be a helpful back up til the penny drops.
 
maree t said:
thanks for all advice so far. Pony has had back teeth and saddle checked. The osteo said he was a little stiff in one hock which we think he already had, we are doing excersices in hand over pole work to help this. He is pretty dead to the leg aswell. My daughter uses very good seat aids which seem very effective on other ponies but this one just gets a bit rude. She asked him to canter during a schooling session and then wouldnt stop, not running away, not going fast just totally ignoring her signals to stop. He must have cantered round on 20 metre circle so many times he was getting dizzy:confused:. He is a stocky lad so think I might get the instructor to school him at the start of the lessons for a while. Ground has been so hard we have been limited between lessons to work on the transitions.
Hope I havent made him sound too bad because he is great and we love him and trust him but want to improve the dressage scores
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Cantering round in circles is in my opinion a waste of time with a pony who is not listening, you need to engage the brain at some stage, a pony which needs to move its feet before the brain checks in may well benefit from a few circles but transitions are required to get him to start thinking, rather than just running away all the time.

Just asking him to place is feet is a fantastic exercise to engage the brain, like putting his back feet over a pole or staddling a pole, you really need to make him think, I've seen horses work up a sweat just because they are thinking and trying to work out what is required and where to put their feet, rather than blindly running away.

Don't get fixated with bits, they won't solve anything at this stage, when the pony can be stopped from the seat, rather than touching the rein, then you are actually getting somewhere and riding the pony, not the head.
 
maree t said:
The osteo said he was a little stiff in one hock which we think he already had, we are doing excersices in hand over pole work to help this. He is pretty dead to the leg aswell. My daughter uses very good seat aids which seem very effective on other ponies but this one just gets a bit rude.
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I would also consider a supplement to help the hock perhaps. A glucosamine/msm supp has helped one I know greatly.

Regarding the seat aids, it's irrelevant how good hers are (although handy she knows them already), if HE doesn't know what they mean - hence the suggestion of teaching them to him on the lunge/in confined spaces. HE needs reschooling. I have only a field too, and you can do an awful lot in walk and a bit of trot.

Tbh, if he won't always stop when asked, he isn't safe. What if he did that down a road/in an open space? If you can't reschool him yourselves, send him away. I can sort this sort of thing in a month or less, and I don't do it for a living, just help out people I know/school youngsters on, so I'm sure it wouldn't cost you too much to send him to someone for a couple of weeks?
 
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