advice for young horse with mouth/bit issues.

charlie76

charlie76

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I have just bought a young horse, he turned four in April and is currently 17hh so got a lot of maturing to do.
We bought him as just backed but for a horse that's just backed he is really fussy in his mouth.
He is OK on the lunge and lungesand long reins very well but if he feels pressure on his mouth( ie loose side reins or double lunge lines) he tries get his tongue out, opens his mouth and throws his head about, under saddle whether in the school or out hacking he does the same.
He came through the sales and he has rubs on his mouth and head where he was obviously strapped down to try and stop him doing in which is sad and has made this lovely young horse have an issue.
I plan to just lunge/long rein and hack him for now with ten mins under saddle in the school once or twice a week but steering is an issue at the moment.
Noseband wise in have tries a loose drop and cavesson, neither made any difference, bit wise I have tried a loose ring snaffle, straight bar happy mouth and French link, he didnt like any.
I have booked the dentist.
So its one of the three things, bad teeth, bad mouthing process / not been mouthed at all and/ or bad riding.
He isn't a nasty horse.

He is very well bred.,.landgraff/lux/Ramiro z and cor de le bryere so we want to help him.

Any suggestions.. We arent in a hurry to produce him but need to help him to get him happy .
 
I would re mouth him to start with, after seeing the dentist. If you need to keep him going through this process is he quiet enough to long rein on a cavasson? Avoid loose ring bits, something that stays very steady in his mouth, hanging cheek would be my choice or an eggbutt, and try and resist using a flash or drop for the time being. Once you know he is comfortable get your instructors advice, an experienced set of eyes on the ground is invaluable.
 
My 5yo came home from racing with a horrible mouth habit/fussiness & he just wasn't happy with any of the usual bits, someone (on here I think) suggested a verbindend & he's happy with that, & for jumping we've been using a bomber comfort snaffle which also works very well,

I'd tried all those you'd suggested as well as fixed & loose rings with no improvement. I think it's horse bit bank that let you have them on a months trial, so I got a selection, & decided what suited him best
 
He prob would be OK in a cavesson, I put him in the mouthing bit in the stable for a couple of hours today to simply get him used to having something in his mouth., the happy mouth straight bar was eggbutt.
Forgot to say, I had a feel in his mouth and he has a very low palate so I think he would object to a single jointed bit.
 
J came to me with major mouth issues .
My first advice would be to get someone very experienced to get a good look in the mouth with the horse under sedation .
I have had good results with j with a hanging cheek snaffle with a curved Mullen mouth .
And a micklem bridle is well worth a try .
I have tried loads of things on him .
 
my sons extremely fussy horse is great in a micklem, we worked him in the bitless option then added a bit and have the choice whether to use bit or bitless. It may just be that the horse is going through changes in his mouth and is a bit sensitive.
 
siennamum said:
my sons extremely fussy horse is great in a micklem, we worked him in the bitless option then added a bit and have the choice whether to use bit or bitless. It may just be that the horse is going through changes in his mouth and is a bit sensitive.
Click to expand...

Micklem works well on my sensitive one too, I use it with an eggbutt snaffle.

With the Micklem you could put a bit on the bridle but attach the reins to the bitless rings - or ride with 2 reins one on the bit and one on the nose - then you have options.
 
The absolute first thing to do is take him to a top notch EDT. Not a tooth rasper,but someone who understands the correct geometry of the mouth . There is no point in doing anything until any bite defects are corrected.
 
Have you tried a kk ultra bit which has the Warm metal and the angled lozenge? At least 20mm thick.. The Germans know what they're talking about when it comes to bitting!
 
As above, firstly I would get him to a top notch dentist. Things are much easier to handle once you know there is not a pain issue there.
After that I would have a bitting specialist look at him, is Hilary Vernon ever near you?

Your training will be very important too. Depending on your area, I would see if someone like Phillip Woof would come and have a look.

I ride one who had mouth issues as a baby, (ulcers, sores etc) and it has taken some time to get him settled in his mouth. He will still be fussy if hes stressed but it has improved no end.
Dont get too worried about it, you will get it sorted, but it will no doubt take time. But with that breeding I expect you're quite willing to wait.
Have you done any research on similar bred horses? It sounds silly, but every horse I have seen (including his dad and brothers) with the same breeding as the one I mentioned above is fussy in the mouth. Must be something about the way their jaws are set.

Good Luck. :D
 
It's not at all usual to see references to stallions/lines producing a high percentage of horses with fussy mouths - It seems to be a known heritable tendency.

Re the OP, I'm another suggesting teeth attention first. In fact, if the horse is really bothered I'd probably avoid bitted work until i was confident the horse comfortable on the basis that you're training every day and you're not training the right things you're training the wrong things.

With a sensitive one you do have to play around a bit. ;) I think some fussy horses are irritated by lots of movement and others get into a feedback loop with the noise - for those an un jointed or single joint can work better. I like the CS correction bit, the ported Mylers and similar for retraining, although none are dressage legal. Moving on, I like the demi-Anky and some of the Informed Bitting Mullen mouth designs, all of which are legal. A fixed cheek can also help.

For the ones that object to rigidity.then obviously there are lots of options.

I would also try different materials. I know we've moved on from things like rubber snaffles but not every horse got the memo.
 
Thanks for all the advice. Re breeding. This is our second lux horse and the first one was difficult in the mouth to but he would cross his jaw. Today I lunged him in the mouthing bit having left it on him for a bit before hand, side reins ( loose ish.) And lunged him off the lunge cavesson and he was much improved.
I don't want to over do the lunging but I'm reluctant to hack him until we can steer !
 
To add. We won't ride him until the dentist has been and carry in with what I did today as he didnt really fuss at all.
 
I presume you've had your physio look at him? Many of the fussy horses I've known had TMJ/neck issues. Hard to say if it was chicken or egg though!
 
Think I spent about 500 quid getting the right bit and bridle combo for a similar sounding fussy horse. Tried everything including bitless. Ultimately a Micklem bridle, and a myler comfort snaffle which has a forward port not upward did the trick (and a year and riding with a bit in but reins on the hackamore as well).

Now, she is pretty much normal, but it was some job. I posted a video in the TR when I got her and was told she was lame. She wasn't, she just moved her head in such a hideous way that she looked lame to some people.

As tarrsteps said she hated movement in her mouth, she actually likes the stabilising effect of the Micklem on the bit, and she also liked the hackamore cheeks on the bit stopping it moving.
 
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Mine can tend to be quite fussy to a contact - she tends to dip behind it or then do the opposite and lean. For a while I used a NS team up bit and thought it was pretty good but I had an inkling after a while due to the thiness of it she was starting to back off it a little bit. That said as a bit I really do like it and may well end up going back to it but have decided to go back to basics for a while....

So as part of a little bit of an experiement Ive tried a full cheek hollowmouth snaffle and taken her flash off. Its single jointed and thick and chunky and cost about eight quid new off ebay (think back to bits about 15 years ago!) and honestly she feels MUCH more stiller and forward into the contact. Yes its not as refined and we dont have that 'super light' feeling but the purpose of trying it was to actually get her to take a bit more consistent weight/contact into my hands rather than backing off. It feels good for now at least.

As Tarrsteps says - not all horses got the memo that loose ring, lozenge, toungue saving bits are best for them. Might be worth a play?
 
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Again, thanks. We have only have him five days so not had the physio yet, if the dentist shows not much we will go that way next. There is a girl in the yard with a micklem so could try that.
I am alternating between lunging and long reining. I'm also leaving a bridle on him in the stable for a couple of hours as I don't think he's used to having anything in his mouth, this seems to be helping, he was lying down in it earlier so can't be too stressed!

I feel sorry for him, he obviously was just dragged in, tack chucked on and stuck in the sale,he has sore rub marks where a flash would sit and down the side of his face and where the rings of a Mexican grackle would sit. Poor horse
 
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