Advice - going back to basics

[Cai Boy]

I'm looking for help and advice with a horse I have recently bought. I say horse, technically he's a pony at 14.2. He's a Welsh Section D cob who appears to have been out of work for a while. When I bought him I found out afterwards that he had only been with his (then) owner ten weeks and he hadn't been ridden in the time she had him, although I met his owner before that who had him eight years so he hasn't had too many owners, me being his third. He has competed in show jumping and did well by all accounts.


He is twelve years old now. He was schooled when he was six but not used much after that and from what I can gather his schooling was pretty much wasted. I have been riding for the best part of twenty years, including jumping, so wouldn't class myself as a novice rider, however it's is the first time I have owned a horse so am new in that respect and I am not experienced with 'green' horses. I was very fortunate when I was learning to ride to learn on schooled horses so am not used to horses with no manners - which is what this one appears to be.


He has been with me just over two weeks and we are still very much focusing on ground work. I rode him before I bought him but probably not enough in hindsight and getting him to do the basics is proving quite challenging now he's with me. I have tried to lunge him but all he wants to do is come into me. I have been using the 'join up' technique recently which seems to be working well; possibly too well given all he wants to do is come into me, which is why lunging hasn't been very successful. Getting him to stand still to mount is very hard when I'm on my own and although it's only been two weeks I'm beginning to lose confidence with him because his behaviour is inconsistent and unpredictable. Not a good space to be in given that he takes his confidence from his rider. I tried to ride him earlier in the week, but he bucked and that hasn't helped either. That said he then lost a shoe so that may have had something to do with it. The farrier seemed to think so at least.

General behaviour is excellent and he is incredibly sweet....but given his age is it too late to go back to basics??? Have emailed those more knowledgeable to see if they can work with him.

 

[be positive]

You would get more response in tack room but a few thoughts from me, join up and lunging are very different and possibly confusing him so one or other for now until he is more established and understands what is required.
There may be a reason he was not ridden in the short term home, possibly he proved difficult and they gave up trying, you will need to be very clear in what you want him to do, ideally ride when someone is around to assist mounting until he learns to stand, spend time with this it is very important.
Has his saddle been checked, if it does not fit that could be why he is being difficult, teeth may also require attention if he has not been doing much for a while.
I would find a good instructor to help, there is no reason a 12 year old cannot go back to basics, every horse does so to some extent every time they are ridden but you do need to rule out physical reasons for his behaviour in order to progress, losing a shoe should not cause him to buck unless he was sore without it.

 

[Cai Boy]

Thank you for your reply, it is helpful. He has had his saddle fitted professionally as I'm aware an ill fitting saddle can cause negative behaviour. Have not had his teeth checked though. He had a 5 stage vetting when I bought him and the vet didn't raise any issues with his back, but may seek advice from a back specialist to be safe. Thank you again.

 

[TrasaM]

I was given some great advice on here about mounting problems; running off or reversing at speed. It worked really well and took about 25 minutes the first time and within 3 rides he was standing beautifully and waiting to be asked to move.
Be patient, keep calm and be clear in your instructions. He will soon learn. He sounds like a horse advertised on FB near me. Also a welsh D and same issues but younger than yours. I'd have been tempted but I've had a few run ins with a WD and decided to avoid anything that had Welsh anywhere in its breeding.

 

[Cai Boy]

Lol, thank you

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Try long reining instead of lungeing, in an enclosed space first, then later round bridleways or roads if you want. You can long rein circles and changes of rein etc in an arena if you're trying to get him supple.

12 is not too old to go back to basics. Treat it as a learning curve for yourself as well as the horse, see it as an adventure.

With regards to training, develop your timing. Praise him the minute he does what you want, or tries to. If he doesn't understand what you want him to do, ask in a different way or break the task down into smaller sections and learn one at a time. Buy a book with different schooling exercises in and educate yourself so your schooling has lots of variety and the horse doesn't get bored.

 

[Cai Boy]

Thank you Sugar and Spice. I was thinking of long rein yesterday. He certainly knows what to do I think he's just pushing boundaries with me at the moment. But you are right about boredom, he is the type of horse that needs variety. As I say, I'm used to schooled horses so this is new for me. He does get himself into a tizzy sometimes and swings he bum around to me, and I need to stop him doing that. I might invest in a pro to get me started and help me with some techniques.

 

[wakijaki]

Hi
just had to reply as you seem to be in a very similar situation to what I was in 3 months ago after buying my first pony, a 14.2 haflinger mare, 10 years old and she came from a trekking center so i was assured she would be quiet and perfect for me as a first pony. Well when she came I found out she was anything but that. She bucked, she squealed, she napped very badly. I couldn't get her tacked up, couldn't even lead her or handle her from the ground as she would spin and buck in my face. She would spin and cow kick when you tried to mount her and barge about.
I had everything checked and I actually broke down in tears when the back woman said all the problems where just down to behavioral issues and bad attitude. The seller wanted nothing more to do with us and refused to have her back so unless I took the seller to court or cut my losses and gave her away I was stuck with her!
So what changed? I think I had to find a different way of dealing with her. I cant physically make her do anything - but i can trick her into wanting to do the right thing. Make the right thing easy, the wrong thing hard.
I would guess that the fact he was sold so quickly and been out of work so long points to possibly there being ridden issues no one wanted to tackle.
I agree that either work on the join up - or the lunging.....doing both with him at this stage will just confuse him and be very aware of how your body language is communicating with him when you do this and dont let him turn in until you decide he can do. You might have to wave or shout him away or wiggle the stick at him but always make sure its your decision.
The mounting problem (once you have back, tack and teeth checked to make sure pain isnt an issue) can be solved very easily as long as you are patient and stick to the same thing. How I solved the problem with my mare was by making it the easy option for her to stand still and making it extra difficult for her if she decided to move.
Also - can i ask if you are using a block or getting on from the ground? I would say get a block - even if its a strong bucket or a bale of hay - just to make sure that you are not making it physically uncomfortable for him when you mount. Then what you need to do it lead him up to it and ask him to stand still. If he does make a fuss of him and if he doesn't then move his feet - whether that's circling round the mounting block or backing up....for maybe 20 -30 seconds and then ask again. you need to do it on a day when your not in rush and stay calm about it! you might have to do it several times but the aim is to make it the easier option for him to just stand still when you ask him...believe me it was hard work with my mare as she spun and barged and would do anything rather than stand to be mounted but she soon gave in!
Once he stands at your block nicely progress to standing on it and scratching his withers on the other side. Then you can progress to foot in the stirrup. Then eventually get on. If i was you - I would do this over 2 or 3 days without actually getting on. I had a natural horseman out to help us and about the best thing he said was when you do get on just sit still and count to 30. This might seem strange but it helps for many reasons....1 because if you look at things from the horses point of view - the first thing people do when they get on is start tightening the girth and moving around making sure they are sitting right and taking up the reins. You end up with the horse wanting to avoid all that so the second you go to get on the horse is moving away. If you train yourself to get on and just sit, give the horse a breather for 30 seconds and then do all you checks. I do this every time with my mare and it makes such a difference.
I also watch tons of youtube videos so if you go on there check out a guy called warwick schiller - he is brilliant and explains things like this a lot better than me.
Sorry for waffling but having gone through all this myself I know how quickly it can became a downward spiral.
I hope it helps in some way x

 

[TrasaM]

Wakijaki. Sounds like you've cracked the problem. Who knows what baggage horses acquire but doing as you've done; time and patience is IMO the best approach. I also watch the Warwick Schiller videos on YouTube. I love his quiet no nonsense approach which is never dressed up as anything other than good sense and safety first.
The mounting process I went through with mine was same as you did and it really works really well.

 

[wakijaki]

TrasaM - yep it seems to be a long way around it but once you put that work in, if you stay consistent - then that stays with the horse for life and becomes a good habit for them. So many horses I know rush off or wont stand still to be mounted. But i can see how i was making it worse by trying to mount from the ground so then all my weight is pulling on her and i would get so annoyed that she wouldnt stand and she could pick up on that! The other trick is to have in your mind that you have all day to do something that should take a few minutes....as if you think you only have a few minutes - it will take all day!

 

[TrasaM]

TrasaM - yep it seems to be a long way around it but once you put that work in, if you stay consistent - then that stays with the horse for life and becomes a good habit for them. So many horses I know rush off or wont stand still to be mounted. But i can see how i was making it worse by trying to mount from the ground so then all my weight is pulling on her and i would get so annoyed that she wouldnt stand and she could pick up on that! The other trick is to have in your mind that you have all day to do something that should take a few minutes....as if you think you only have a few minutes - it will take all day!

Lol.i remember saying to horse as we were going through the process that I'd got all day. He was used to moving off as soon as the rider got on. She didn't seem to think there was any issue with that either but I got him so that he'd stand beautifully and would even allow remount from either side out hacking.

 

[wakijaki]

That is brilliant! I haven't tried mounting her again from the ground as I am so conscious of my weight on her one side and also because she is so flat and round the saddle always slips! So that will be something we will have to work on a little bit as at some point i need to just make sure i can get on again...but then again - you can always find a little wall somewhere. I do mount and dismount from both sides.
I saw a video of kelly marks doing a neat trick with her horse who is 17.3 and she taught him to side up to her whenever she climbed a fence or a wall so she can always mount him! Might have to try that as well!

 

[Cai Boy]

Thank you Wakijaki, this has helped. Sorry to hear you have had a bit an eventful time of it with yours. Since I posted this thread I have spent a lot of time with him, taking it slowly and I'll be honest (at the risk of jinxing myself) he has been doing really well. He is beginning to stand at mounting blocks albeit sometimes we get there on a third attempt, but he is doing it. I have tried mounting from the ground (I'm not the most supple mind you and I have short legs - not one of those that can spring up easily) and bless him he has stood good as gold! He has made such good progress in the short space of time that I have had him, I’m very proud of him. Join-up has worked well too and we have established a good bond so far. He is very eager to please and he is trying so hard. Still a little rascal sometimes but he's just being a horse and having fun. Perseverance, patience and understanding is all that's needed x

 

[TrasaM]

Coi Boy. Well done you. Having shared the joy of reforming Asbo cob with my friend I know your joy at finally getting the horse you wanted. And all the better knowing that YOU did it.

 

[wakijaki]

Cai boy - that is great news! I used to think you just groomed a horse and tacked up and got on - but the more time I spend on the ground with my mare the closer I feel to her. Im so pleased to here how you have dealt with him . It can be tricky and frustrating but the more consistent you are the quicker everything will become. My mare tests me everyday so I am always watching out for those signs that she is trying to take an inch and push me a mile...but that is just what horses do with each other so its just her being a horse! Some days I think it would be lovely to have a simple easy horse - but then everytime I achieve anything with her - it means so much more because its something she wouldn't do before. I have had her coming up to 4 months now and 2 days ago she finally let me brush her tail. It doesn't seem like much as with most horses its just taken for granted but she didnt trust me enough and would get irratated and spin and barge and kick out. So just to be able to handle her tail and brush it all through (it was a right mess!) meant the world to me! Keep at it and great to hear a positive outcome. x

 

[Cai Boy]

Thank you - it certainly boosts your confidence knowing you can do it doesn't it!

 

[Cai Boy]

Thank you - sounds like you have done a great job too!! I wouldn't change him for the world. He has such a great personality and character (like your mare by the sound of it). And like you and TrasaM say, means so much knowing YOU did it!