Advice - lameness on vetting examination

[Martajac]

Hello,

Looking for advice, please. There's not many people I know I can ask about it really and it would be helpful to know other people's thoughts and experiences.

I'll try to be diplomatic and not reveal all details as I can't post anonymously.

We thought we've found a perfect first pony for my child. Unfortunately, there was a problem picked up on the vetting (5 stage). Pony was lame on one leg.

I genuinely believe the vendor was not aware of it. We were both shocked and devastated really. I actually cried a bit and have got a physical heartache... 😢 The pony seems to be one of these 'one in a million', truly perfect in every way.

The vet made it clear that he thinks the pony is not suitable for purchase and will not be able to do what is expected of it - my child wants to do a little bit of everything, pony club, fun rides, rallies, jumping etc

The vet was not there to determine the cause of lameness and some can of course be transient. Is it worth pursuing this - get a vet to to some diagnostic etc? I don't want to end up with a pony that can't do it's job and drown in vet bills etc. I won't get insurance - at all or on that one leg - I'm not sure. If it's transient - is it worth looking again at it in weeks/months time?

In case anyone wants more details - the pony is young (less than 10), I think the lameness became apparent after flexion tests and trot up on hard surface (so fairly quickly during the exam).

I know that some horses and ponies have problems, inc. lameness and are still able to perform, but I don't have the experience to manage this, so it would be a real gamble...

I would be most grateful for your thoughts. I appreciate none of is binding. Thank you!

 

[AmyMay]

I’d ask the seller if they’re going to ask their own vet to investigate and go from there. It could be something or nothing. If the lameness is to be investigated ask the seller to keep you posted and go from there. The onus is on the seller to pay for investigations, not you.

 

[be positive]

I’d ask the seller if they’re going to ask their own vet to investigate and go from there. It could be something or nothing. If the lameness is to be investigated ask the seller to keep you posted and go from there. The onus is on the seller to pay for investigations, not you.

All of this, it may well be something minor but unless the seller gets a proper diagnosis, then treats if appropriate, the risk is not worth taking, ponies do suffer from lameness and may be able to perform after treatment but they do not always get better, worst case scenario is that it may be badly injured and have to be retired or pts, hopefully that will not be the case but the whole purpose of a vetting is to reduce the risks for the purchaser.

 

[brightmount]

You must be very emotionally invested in this pony to want to proceed. Lameness is a blight on horse ownership and I would never knowingly go into a purchase where there’s an existing issue, especially with all the disappointment this could mean to a child who wants to ride.

But that’s just my opinion based on all the mistakes I have made over the years and the consequent heartache and expense. It’s probably not the answer you are look for.

 

[AmyMay]

So, exactly the same responses as in your earlier post.

 

[Upthecreek]

You say “the vet has made it clear that the pony is not suitable for purchase and will not be able to do what is expected of it”. I am therefore unsure what or why you are asking this forum for advice. You also say you don’t have the experience to manage lameness. I don’t mean to sound harsh but you have answered your own questions and it wouldn’t be fair on you, your child or the pony to proceed with the purchase. What point is there in having the pony vetted and then not taking the vet’s advice? You could see if the vendor is prepared to investigate the lameness and if a conclusive cause is found, have it treated and re-vet, but personally I would walk away.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Did you not like the advice on the thread you posted at lunchtime?
Exactly the same post as the one at the top here.

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/advice-lameness-on-vetting-examination.782100/

 

[skint1]

I have been here. I went back to re-vet a month later, different vet, different part of hte country (long story) same result unfortunately. It broke my heart and I don't think the seller was in any way trying to decieve, they genuinely didn't know. I think the horse did sell in the end, perhaps the seller looked into the issue further, perhaps it resolved, perhaps someone bought without a vetting, but in the end I chose to walk away. I think it depends on the amount of risk you're willing to take, whether the seller is willing to look into things further, or serious negotiations on price, or something. I wish you all the luck in the world, I certainly didn't expect horse buying to be so emotional

 

[Martajac]

Did you not like the advice on the thread you posted at lunchtime?
Exactly the same post as the one at the top here.

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/advice-lameness-on-vetting-examination.782100/

I'm certainly grateful for all the advice. I just wasn't sure where to post it. I posted in 'new owners' only to find the 'vet care' - I wasn't sure whether I picked the right area to start with. Thank you for your advice and time.

 

[HeyMich]

Nope, walk away.

Ponies/horses are expensive enough, let alone when you're starting with an unknown lameness, and all the associated vets bills!

The right pony will find you at the right time - and this pony isn't he.

 

[hopscotch bandit]

Hello,

Looking for advice, please. There's not many people I know I can ask about it really and it would be helpful to know other people's thoughts and experiences.

I'll try to be diplomatic and not reveal all details as I can't post anonymously.

We thought we've found a perfect first pony for my child. Unfortunately, there was a problem picked up on the vetting (5 stage). Pony was lame on one leg.

I genuinely believe the vendor was not aware of it. We were both shocked and devastated really. I actually cried a bit and have got a physical heartache... 😢 The pony seems to be one of these 'one in a million', truly perfect in every way.

The vet made it clear that he thinks the pony is not suitable for purchase and will not be able to do what is expected of it - my child wants to do a little bit of everything, pony club, fun rides, rallies, jumping etc

The vet was not there to determine the cause of lameness and some can of course be transient. Is it worth pursuing this - get a vet to to some diagnostic etc? I don't want to end up with a pony that can't do it's job and drown in vet bills etc. I won't get insurance - at all or on that one leg - I'm not sure. If it's transient - is it worth looking again at it in weeks/months time?

In case anyone wants more details - the pony is young (less than 10), I think the lameness became apparent after flexion tests and trot up on hard surface (so fairly quickly during the exam).

I know that some horses and ponies have problems, inc. lameness and are still able to perform, but I don't have the experience to manage this, so it would be a real gamble...

I would be most grateful for your thoughts. I appreciate none of is binding. Thank you!

Well to be honest with you I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. You need to let your head lead and not your heart on this one. You could end up with all sorts of problems down the line and a considerable cost. You wouldn't be insured on this leg either because its a pre-existing condition.

Also to bear in mind if the finding is that the horse has, for example, coffin joint arthritis, then the insurance company quite often (and unfairly) put an exclusion on all bones in all four feet as they did with mine. My vet fought it and the exclusion was lifted but this isn't always the case, so that might be worth bearing in mind.

 

[honetpot]

I sold a pony that failed a vetting, to the people who had it vetted.
For me it would depend if I knew the confirmed history of the pony and how much work it had been doing. When it was last shod etc, and the price.
With ponies you are buying safety and reliability, our PC schoolmaster would have failed the vet, so I didn’t have him vetted, and I paid £2k for him 20 years ago, but I knew the pony well.

 

[Martajac]

Many thanks for everyone for sharing your views and experiences. This has been very helpful. I have walked away from the deal, but have asked the vendor to let me know if the pony is investigated +/- treated in the future. As far as I'm aware the vet was quite an experienced professional. He didn't elaborate on suspected causes of the lameness & he's had a discussion with me rather than just giving a blank single statement of lack of suitability. Many thanks for all your time!

 

[hopscotch bandit]

He didn't elaborate on suspected causes of the lameness & he's had a discussion with me rather than just giving a blank single statement of lack of suitability.

Sorry just curious, how come you didn't ask? That would have been my first question. Not being nasty - I'm just curious.

You say the vet wasn't there to determine the cause but after spending all that money on a vetting I would have been annoyed if he hadn't of come up with some suggestions to what might have made the pony lame, i.e. he thought maybe its shoeing could have contributed to it, or it could have spavin if it was lame in a hind limb.

At least then you could have run the possible scenarios through him and maybe considered a way forward that would have suited both you and the vendor. If the vet thought that maybe the shoes were naff for example you could have at least had the choice and waited a couple of weeks after the pony was shod and have it revetted, had you been really keen.

I say all that but I still wouldn't have touched it with a barge pole, so I think you've possibly had a lucky escape. Sorry rotten luck OP.

 

[Martajac]

Sorry just curious, how come you didn't ask? That would have been my first question. Not being nasty - I'm just curious.

You say the vet wasn't there to determine the cause but after spending all that money on a vetting I would have been annoyed if he hadn't of come up with some suggestions to what might have made the pony lame, i.e. he thought maybe its shoeing could have contributed to it, or it could have spavin if it was lame in a hind limb.

At least then you could have run the possible scenarios through him and maybe considered a way forward that would have suited both you and the vendor. If the vet thought that maybe the shoes were naff for example you could have at least had the choice and waited a couple of weeks after the pony was shod and have it revetted, had you been really keen.

I say all that but I still wouldn't have touched it with a barge pole, so I think you've possibly had a lucky escape. Sorry rotten luck OP.

I did ask, but he didn't seem keen to elaborate... I'm new to it, so I haven't exactly argued when he said he wasn't there to make a diagnosis, I did try to ask questions around it and in a different way. I have sent him an email with the query to check if he would elaborate further on the most probable causes in his experience. I do have a feeling he may have an idea what's going on but perhaps doesn't want to make a statement without having any diagnostics to back it up...

 

[milliepops]

I don't think that's unusual, tbf, when doing a PPE they are working for you and the task is to assess the horse's suitability for purpose. He's done that bit.
If the seller wants to know what's causing it they need to get their own vet out to perform an examination.

 

[skint1]

I don't think that's unusual, tbf, when doing a PPE they are working for you and the task is to assess the horse's suitability for purpose. He's done that bit.
If the seller wants to know what's causing it they need to get their own vet out to perform an examination.

That's been my experience with both failed vettings I had. The second horse that failed was local to me, because it was my own vet and they knew how devastated I was and I was scheming how I could still take the horse and explore the issues raised at vetting, they did elaborate (off record to me personally) why they strongly felt I should not take that particular horse at that time because it was the owner who needed to get their own vet to address the issues further.

 

[be positive]

I did ask, but he didn't seem keen to elaborate... I'm new to it, so I haven't exactly argued when he said he wasn't there to make a diagnosis, I did try to ask questions around it and in a different way. I have sent him an email with the query to check if he would elaborate further on the most probable causes in his experience. I do have a feeling he may have an idea what's going on but perhaps doesn't want to make a statement without having any diagnostics to back it up...

He is right to be a bit evasive, he could not diagnose, he probably had a good idea what was going on but it would be unprofessional to elaborate in the circumstances so don't expect too much in response although keeping in touch with the sellers may give an answer, if they are happy to do so.

I have had a few fail, buying and selling, vets sometimes have a good idea, sometimes a very obvious cause but few have ever done more than say go ahead and buy/ don't buy with one or two saying represent in a week or so if they have a hunch it is something minor but they have never given a firm diagnosis based on findings in a normal vetting, a few 'fails' have proved to be very minor and easily resolved but were always investigated by the vendor before representing or reselling.