advice needed - horse vetting failed

Amaranta said:
You can always geld a colt!

I really really really disagree with your last sentence (as an accredited Iberian judge I feel I can!) I have two British bred and two imported - my older British bred looks more Spanish than either of the imported ones!
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Yes but I can not ride a colt right now though ;)
I have done that, my current one I had unbacked as that way I got the quality I wanted. But now I want something more established, so I'm going to have to compromise.

Oh dear sorry you might know my current PRE then as I am out with him lots :D
I have just never seen that, most UK bred ones look like connemaras to me :)
 
SpanishNeddy said:
I want him for breed showing and dressage. But mainly dressage as my other PRE is a super showing horse and this one isn't a patch on my current one conformation wise.
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What you want him for should make your decision very easy

"this one isn't a patch on my current one conformation wise" yet you want him for breed showing he won't be succesful if his conformation isn't 100% correct.

Don't buy, don't have him vetted, don't bother with him any more.

PLease don't break your heart over this 'Not perfect' horse - there are many more out there that will do what you want to do.
 
SpanishNeddy said:
Yes very good point and I agree BUT he is being ridden better than 90% of others I see trust me! but yes they have totally rushed him with the piaffe/passage. I agree and it drives me mad, they want to even teach that before the horse is perfected in the walk / trot / canter! just the way it is over there for most sale horses unfortunately.
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You see I don't believe that most sale horses are rushed, maybe because I am from the dressage world I am used to horses being brought on properly.

Of course there are people over here who rush their horses, and there are one or two within the PRE world who I would point fingers at, BUT the majority are brought on carefully and considerately.
 
foxy1 said:
Do you know what, if you really want him then you should buy him :)

I never ask others opinions when buying horses, it's such an individual decision. If he ends up lame then you will have to deal with it, but if he doesn't then you will be one happy lady. I'm all for taking risks; lets face it, buying any horse is a risk.
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yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay someone wants me to have him hahahaha :D
 
This is probably really thick but couldn't you geld the first one to make him rideable for you? And where's our promised piccy?
 
Amaranta said:
You see I don't believe that most sale horses are rushed, maybe because I am from the dressage world I am used to horses being brought on properly.

Of course there are people over here who rush their horses, and there are one or two within the PRE world who I would point fingers at, BUT the majority are brought on carefully and considerately.
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Well if you know me and my current one you know I most certainly have done everything very slowly with him. Also ive always had the very best for him. His backing cost me £350 per week! I could have done it for £150 but I always did what was right for him because he is very difficult and nervous. Now Im paying a fortune for training (and he has been there 9 months) for a horse I can not ride! BUT I can see how it is helping him, so that makes me happy. He has come on so much. BUT it is my turn, I want to ride now so that is why I can not have a baby again.
 
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Mistlekins said:
This is probably really thick but couldn't you geld the first one to make him rideable for you? And where's our promised piccy?
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He is gelded :):)
I gelded him after I imported him. I had to as he was very nervous so being a gelding has helped him. He was a nervous wreck so I wanted him to socialise with other horses as he is such a sweetie and he LOVES having friends :D the reason he is unrideable is because he is super hot ride nothign else.
 
SpanishNeddy said:
hehe I know - because I'm hoping someone will say to me - it is probably muscular!! :D
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:D

what if it is something he does when a little tense etc if your going to go to all that trouble to find something nice to do dressage on it far better be 100% sound
if he hasn't got level/even steps then he will never be a good dressage horse as he will constantly loose marks for not having correct rythm/tempo

tbh if i really had my heart set i'd leave it in fates hands and look else where ,if i'd not found anything else within say 6 weeks (long enough to make a difference to a minor problem ;) ) i'd look again to see if he's sound or he may be worse if they continue to work him

if he sells in the mean time i'd just think it wasn't meant to be :)

the only way i'd consider buying him now would be if money was no object and you could afford to loose however many thousands its going to cost to vet, travel ,buy him etc and even then there would be emotional stress if you got him going only for him to go lame 6 months down the line
 
SpanishNeddy said:
Yes but I can not ride a colt right now though ;)
I have done that, my current one I had unbacked as that way I got the quality I wanted. But now I want something more established, so I'm going to have to compromise.

Oh dear sorry you might know my current PRE then as I am out with him lots :D
I have just never seen that, most UK bred ones look like connemaras to me :)
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TBH I think you are on 'the rebound', you cannot ride your existing horse so you are desperately looking for something that you can, trouble is this makes it more likely you buy something unsuitable.

Please don't buy something with bad conformation just because he seems rideable, there are many many horses with good rideabiity AND good conformation, these horses, of course, come at a premium, but buy something cheaper and it could cost you the purchase price and more if there is a real problem.

TBH I think you will have a hard job buying anything backed in Spain, as you know, they do not put the time in, are fascinated by 'tricks' and it will be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

The Connemara thing is not surprising, there is a lot of Spanish blood in the Connemara, however, I disagree that most British bred PRE's look like Connemara's, I actually find that statement quite insulting to British breeders who carefully select stock to breed the best that they can. With people making statements like that I wonder why they bother tbh!
 
Angelish - yes that is a good point. In this point in time I already told the agent I am no longer interested (few days ago) but just keep thinking about it.

It is quite surprising he hasn't sold quickly to be honest as he is black and from a good stud (although as before conformation is not great). So maybe people are seeing it. He does not have flashy paces though so that could be why.
 
Amaranta said:
TBH I think you are on 'the rebound', you cannot ride your existing horse so you are desperately looking for something that you can, trouble is this makes it more likely you buy something unsuitable.

Please don't buy something with bad conformation just because he seems rideable, there are many many horses with good rideabiity AND good conformation, these horses, of course, come at a premium, but buy something cheaper and it could cost you the purchase price and more if there is a real problem.

TBH I think you will have a hard job buying anything backed in Spain, as you know, they do not put the time in, are fascinated by 'tricks' and it will be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

The Connemara thing is not surprising, there is a lot of Spanish blood in the Connemara, however, I disagree that most British bred PRE's look like Connemara's, I actually find that statement quite insulting to British breeders who carefully select stock to breed the best that they can. With people making statements like that I wonder why they bother tbh!
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Yes I know you are right I am so gutted he is so my cup of tea :(:(:(

Yes I agree they do not put the time in at all over there. Such a shame. You should see half of them and what they are ridden in, I'm sure you know (serreta bridles how delightful).

Ahhhh I know I was generalising. It is probably because most are gelded so loose that stallion-ness! my boy oddly never did, he still has so much presence and a big neck still.
 
Regarding asking for new videos and not giving them time to bute him - two things - first, he may be on it full time now anyway - second, intravenous bute works in minutes.

"They wouldn't do that would they?"

Yes.

I know of a Spanish horse that was imported unseen by a very silly man. It was supposedly 16 hands and PRE. When it arrived it was newly branded although 8 years old, 14 hands ................ and pregnant.
 
I personally would walk away, I understand that buying any horse is a risk but it's even double the risk buying one with an already known problem. I do understand the predicament you are in though, I bought my mare at 13/14 and knew she'd have some issues being that age and previously had been evented hard, sadly I lost her a year later but I don't regret buying her, she taught me everything I now know and somehow got me into Iberian breeds (she was a cob x tb but was amazing at dressage and I ended up going over to portugal to train) I now have a beautiful cheeky andalucian baby. I see you are looking for a PRE but worth a shot trying Teresa at Quinta do Pombal (agent in finding people Lusitanos but has alot of contacts who most definitley will be selling PRE's) she's a wonderful woman, she moved over to Portugal a few years ago, she also trains with a great dressage master 'Nuno Andrade' ...anyway this is her website if you are interested. Do let us all know what you decide, best of luck :)

http://www.lusitanohorsefinder.com/

To add a spanner in the works and to contradict with what I've just said ;) go with your gut instinct, she'll never let you down (and i'm already assuming your gut instinct is telling you to take the risk and go for it :)
 
SpanishNeddy said:
Angelish - yes that is a good point. In this point in time I already told the agent I am no longer interested (few days ago) but just keep thinking about it.

It is quite surprising he hasn't sold quickly to be honest as he is black and from a good stud (although as before conformation is not great). So maybe people are seeing it. He does not have flashy paces though so that could be why.
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oh i bet he's pretty but your right there is a reason why he hasn't sold :(

iv'e always admired pre's there stunning creatures ,good luck hope you find what your looking for soon :)
 
It entirely depends on when they were gelded, your boy was gelded late and therefore retained some stallion characteristics.

The thing to remember is that you cannot have it both ways, you need a gelding because you are nervous, (having said that some geldings, especially PREs are just as sensitive as an entire is) and yet you want the looks of a stallion, with those looks there often comes sensitivity which is not always ideal for a nervous rider. There ARE quieter PREs about but they tend to less flashy.
 
cptrayes said:
Regarding asking for new videos and not giving them time to bute him - two things - first, he may be on it full time now anyway - second, intravenous bute works in minutes.

"They wouldn't do that would they?"

Yes.

I know of a Spanish horse that was imported unseen by a very silly man. It was supposedly 16 hands and PRE. When it arrived it was newly branded although 8 years old, 14 hands ................ and pregnant.
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Lol! Brilliant! He was not the first and will probably not be the last - a fool and his money!
 
angelish said:
oh i bet he's pretty but your right there is a reason why he hasn't sold :(

iv'e always admired pre's there stunning creatures ,good luck hope you find what your looking for soon :)
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He is he is my perfect horsey! oh well I guess you are all right, it is pretty odd he is still for sale so must be a reason for that.

Oh they are amazing breed, once you have one you can not have another breed again. They are not easy though!

Totally gutted :(
 
Amaranta said:
It entirely depends on when they were gelded, your boy was gelded late and therefore retained some stallion characteristics.

The thing to remember is that you cannot have it both ways, you need a gelding because you are nervous, (having said that some geldings, especially PREs are just as sensitive as an entire is) and yet you want the looks of a stallion, with those looks there often comes sensitivity which is not always ideal for a nervous rider. There ARE quieter PREs about but they tend to less flashy.
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Well my boy is more difficult than the stallions at our yard. I ride the stallions fine but my gelding is much more difficult. His rider there says the same. I personally find the stallions not nervous as they think they are matcho! so yes they are not quiet dobbins and are nosey wotsits but I don't worry when I ride them. My boy however is scared of EVERYTHING! he once blind panic bolted over someone sneezing. So yes I am frightened of riding him as it takes silly things to set him off.
 
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SpanishNeddy said:
It is quite surprising he hasn't sold quickly to be honest as he is black and from a good stud (although as before conformation is not great). So maybe people are seeing it. He does not have flashy paces though so that could be why.
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NO it's not surprising he hasn't sold quickly

His conformation is not too good

He is not quite sound - others will have noticed too

His work is not of good quality
 
SpanishNeddy said:
Well my boy is more difficult than the stallions at our yard. I ride the stallions fine but my gelding is much more difficult. His rider there says the same. I personally find the stallions not nervous as they think they are matcho! so yes they are not quiet dobbins and are nosey wotsits but I don't worry when I ride them. My boy however is scared of EVERYTHING! he once blind panic bolted over someone sneezing. So yes I am frightened of riding him as it takes silly things to set him off.
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If you feel comfortable on the stallions, is there absolutely no way you can overcome your nervousness with your own boy? Don't forget that, unless you put him on full loan or sell him, he is still going to cost the same amount in training fees and you will also have to pay out to keep a second horse. I can understand your being fed up with only doing inhand with him, I would hate that too, but is there absolutely no way you could bring yourself to ride him? Baby steps and all that.
 
Amaranta said:
If you feel comfortable on the stallions, is there absolutely no way you can overcome your nervousness with your own boy? Don't forget that, unless you put him on full loan or sell him, he is still going to cost the same amount in training fees and you will also have to pay out to keep a second horse. I can understand your being fed up with only doing inhand with him, I would hate that too, but is there absolutely no way you could bring yourself to ride him? Baby steps and all that.
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Oh don't ask!
I have been through all this. Without boring you all to death I will briefly explain my current boy. After 18 months of being backed you can not wear a coat when you ride him, do your girth up and certainly not adjust your stirrups whilst mounted.........Need I say more???

I have tried.......trust me....ive even been to a few rider confidence sessions but he is not for me. I love him to bits, he is such a lovely sweet boy who's aim in life is only to please. But it is only my hobbie and I am not a professional rider so when you feel sick all day when you know you are getting on him that day.....that is not what I call fun.
 
SpanishNeddy said:
Oh don't ask!
I have been through all this. Without boring you all to death I will briefly explain my current boy. After 18 months of being backed you can not wear a coat when you ride him, do your girth up and certainly not adjust your stirrups whilst mounted.........Need I say more???

I have tried.......trust me....ive even been to a few rider confidence sessions but he is not for me. I love him to bits, he is such a lovely sweet boy who's aim in life is only to please. But it is only my hobbie and I am not a professional rider so when you feel sick all day when you know you are getting on him that day.....that is not what I call fun.
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If it really makes you feel that bad (not a nice feeling btw) would it not be a good idea to sell him - then you would have more money to put towards a more suitable horse?
 
cavalo branco said:
In the end I did buy a youngster - was he a Pre? No, an Irish Draft :rolleyes: :rolleyes:He has lovely paces and looks quite Andalusian, strangely-is there Iberian blood way back in ID's, I wonder? He is so sensible and quick to learn. Good luck with your decision though :)
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Funny you should ask!:D Just the other day I was studying the results of some rather interesting research into ID forebears. This was based on (mtDNA) which is inherited only from the dam and is not inflenced at ALL by the sire's DNA. The para relative to your question:


The genetic relationships between ID and other populations either documented or alleged to have contributed to the formation of the Irish Draught population (Connemara, Kerry Bog Pony, Clydesdale, Cleveland Bay, Shire, Thoroughbred, Scottish Highland, Exmoor, Anatolian, Arab, Orlov plus 5 breeds from Spain and Portugal: Andalusian, Sorraia, Asturcon,
Lusitano, CaballodeCorro) were investigated. The highest proportion of mtDNA sequence sharing was with Caballo de Corro (93%) closely followed by the Andalusian (83%).
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SpanishNeddy said:
Well my boy is more difficult than the stallions at our yard. I ride the stallions fine but my gelding is much more difficult. His rider there says the same. I personally find the stallions not nervous as they think they are matcho! so yes they are not quiet dobbins and are nosey wotsits but I don't worry when I ride them. My boy however is scared of EVERYTHING! he once blind panic bolted over someone sneezing. So yes I am frightened of riding him as it takes silly things to set him off.
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That's pretty normal if a gelding is a real scaredy pants! We've backed quite a few colts - and the vast majority have been easy peasy! They are much less nervous - upset them and they'll fight you - but handled with tact they make progress quickly. There was one exception, but he was nearly as difficult after he was gelded! :rolleyes:
 
when a horse my boss was looking at failed a vetting the insurancecompany refused to insure the leg the horse was unsound on, unless xrays came back all clear. you may find your insurance company makes the decision for you. personally i would not buy something that has failed a vetting
 
Hm why not consider a mare? I bought an ex broodie, she was lightly backed with basics only, hadn't done tricks etc and wasn't expensive. She is a lighter type, I was told the breeders are producing the heavier set ones now for the english market....
 
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