Advice needed - how to manage a windsucker?

measles

measles

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As some of you will know we've been looking for a jumping pony for a few months now and, through word of mouth, we've found our ideal pony. We now have her home and she is super but she has one vice - she windsucks very occasionally.

I've no experience of managing a windsucker and the leather collar that she came with looks like an unpleasant bondage device! I will do all of the sensible things like giving her as much turnout as possible, keeping her well exercised and giving ad lib hay.

Aside from wearing the collar is there anything else I can do? I have a small livery yard and it's not so much that I want to stop her doing it (as it's so infrequent) but I need my clients to have confidence that their horses arn't being exposed to a vice even though I know the jury is out on whether it is learnt or they can have a hereditry tendency.

I wondered about making her an extra top door that she could get her head over but too high to grab onto while arching her neck? Then she could do it in the stable but not in the vision of the rest of the yard?

Any thoughts or experiences gratefully received as this is new to me!
 
I hate the collars - they windsuck because they have a need to, whether it is mental or physical, and to prevent it seems cruel beyond measure.

I imagine yours does it mostly around mealtimes? Consider a high forage diet, pre and probiotics, as much turnout as possible and try not to worry too much about it.
 
Agree with you, seems harsh to stop them performing a coping mechanism that they have developed, they can't help it, there are changes in the brain. The ideas you have already are pretty good, especially if its only occasional.
 
Thanks GeorginaFloppet and mother_hen. If our yard was private I would let her get on with it for the reasons that you mention and especially as it is so infrequent. However, I have to consider my clients and their expectations too and so need to avoid her doing it in sight of the other horses.
 
Horses perform stereotypic behaviours under stress so you need to identify and eliminate her triggers. Exactly as you said keeping her occupied, with food and out are the best solutions, if she anxious on her own you could give her a mirror. There is evidence that horses sometimes fall to oral vices like wind sucking/crib biting to relieve intestinal discomfort like ulcers. They generate and swallow extra saliva which acts as an anti-acid. You could try giving her something like gaviscon to see if it helps. If she is only doing it occasionally tho that's not likely to be the cause. I wouldn't worry I'm sure she'll be fine when she's settled in.
 
In that case I would try to isolate her from client horses, but obviously give her company - otherwise I imagine she might get even more stressed. the taller door you suggested might work, especially if you give her a bar to fix on to inside the stable out of sight.
 
It's not considered a 'vice' anymore, more a stereotypy...and there's no evidence that horses copy (or imagine how easy training would be
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Try turning out for as long as possible, feeding lots of forages (preferably more than one type - so hay and haylage, sugar beet), use probiotics, don't feed hard feed unless you absolutely have to, try human antacids such as Gaviscon.
It might also help to ensure she has company, or perhaps try a stable mirror...
Please, please don't use the cribbing collar - they are the equine equivalent of torture devices...
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Mine does it and none of the other horses she has been with have ever copied it. Please don't use the collar, it is awful. I have one and it was on mine once and never again. Mine doesn't have ulcers or anything like that, it is purely a habit (ex racer) and if they are not allowed to do it stresses them out even more.
Maybe you could ask your clients if it is a problem for them. You will probably find that they are not too concerned.
Good luck with your new pony.
 
I was just about to say the whole "no evidence" bit, but a bit of Google Scholaring has just found a 2008 paper with an abstract that claims...

"that exposure to a stereotypic neighbour is a significant risk factor for performing stereotypy"

But looking at their results, they have significance for having a weaving neighbour, but the value for the influence of a cribbing neighbour is not significant. So its maybe a bit misleading.

Anyone else want to have a look? Its "Possible influence of neighbours on stereotypic behaviour in horses, K Nagy, A Schrott, P Kabai, Applied Animal Behaviour Science 111 (2008) 321–328
 
I also wouldnt use the collar, I think they are crurl personally.

I used to think it wasnt learned by others too but a horse on a small yard started after a new horse arrived (who cribbed) and he was stabled directly opposite. He started just copying the action without actually windsucking, but now he windsucks too. So I am very wary now
 
Well, the dam of my 3yo windsucked...badly enough that she did it in the field and uprooted all of the fence posts.
She was out with my TB mare, my Shire x TB weanling, and her own foal, none of whom have shown any desire to copy.
The reason horses in a yard where there is a cribber/windsucker are more likely to develop a stereotypy is because they share the same (poor) management.
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Management has been the same for years though, no changes, horse out all day and in hard work. None of the others who werent in direct view started it either.

I agree that this horse may have had a acid type problem that the windsucking releived but he only started the windsucking after seeing another horse do it
 
Thanks everyone. I like to think that I'm pretty experienced but somehow horses with vices have always passed me by. This was the one compromise that we had to make in order to be able to have such a prolific pony.

You have convinced me that my gut reaction to the collar was correct and she will not wear it again.
 
I agree with H's mum - try colligone or feedmark's settlex and talk to your liveries - they may not be concerned. Stabble mirrot may help as maybe a snackaball type thing with some treats to keep pony amused. Glad you are not gong to use the collar!

I do think in some very rare cases susceptible horses can pick it up though. My pony who was out 24/7 started cribbing when a new pony who cribbed pretty much all day (I'm surprised it didn't starve to death as it was rarely seen doing anything other than cribbing) was turned out with him. It started with chewing wood then making the 'motions' but no noise as he wasn't swallowing air. We put a collar on him that made the 'motions' uncomfortable - it was 25 years ago and we were not so enlightened - and he stopped, whereupon we removed the collar and he never started again..
 
My guys a bad windsucker. i bought a collar before realising that it could be a mental need, so thought it was cruel to use it. He came to me in a bad way and he windsucked a whole fence up!!! Now he hardly does it, some days only if he's finished his tea and his hay racks not been re-filled because i'm still mucking out! piggy horse!
 
One thing to try is to give her as many different forages as possible. I did a study on this and found that cribbers and windsuckers given at least 3 different forages did the vice a LOT less. So if you can give her, for example, hay, haylage and a bucket of Readigrass..........all the better.
 
Lots of good comments/advice given above; just adding my experience of the subject. I had a horse who only windsucked after eating, leading me to believe it was due to acid. He had constant ad-lib forage and as much turnout as the grass would allow; ie when not much grass he was better off munching in his box!
Re different forages; when researching the subject most advised not to feed haylage or alfa-a, just plain chaff, hay, high fibre cubes and avoid molassed products, so as to avoid irritating a sebnsitive gut. I'm a fan of pink powders too.
As for learning the behaviour, in my experience, my other horse is a 100% stresshead at times in his stable, has bust a few stable doors in his time, he was boxed in between my 'sucker and another one but he never picked it up. He's very busy with his mouth too, undoing bolts, pulling anything within reach, often turning the tap on (it was just outside his box) as well as the lights!
And what he does in his own time is up to him!
 
Interesting about the multiple forages, I had heard that someone had found that while researching something unrelated. What did you do? sorry, very nosey, do PM me if its interesting!
 
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