ester
Not slacking multitasking
I wonder what Wetherby's take is on that, have you heard back yet OP?
Advice needed in regards to a Non Racing Agreement please
- Thread starter VP2009
- Start date
I wonder what Wetherby's take is on that, have you heard back yet OP?
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I am pretty sure this is how it would work .
How ever the non racing clause would stand weatherbys will have that sorted .
Flyermc
Well-Known Member
I have to say i think its a brilliant idea!
From what i understand the trainer went out of there way to find this horse a good home. They did home checks and the OP told them that it was a long term home. The trainer sold the horse for a small amount (from the sound of the post) with an agreement
A year on the OP now wants to sell the horse for an awful lot more, the trainer probably feels lied to, to get a 'cheap' horse.
You see and hear of so many exracers in the wrong homes, that i think its great that they care. Realistically the OP is not 'out of pocket' the running costs of a horses are not in Lou, if it was my pony would be worth hundreds of thousands of pounds!! What you've spent over the year is irrelevant unless you was thinking of sell for profit from the start. If you had the horses best interest at heart, you'd return him to the trainer, so the trainer can find another appropriate home. Im guessing the small amount paid, probably covers there time for the home visits etc
If your friend is interested in the horse, could she contact them? They might do the checks without the horses needing to be moved and then make another agreement with them directly.
From what i understand the trainer went out of there way to find this horse a good home. They did home checks and the OP told them that it was a long term home. The trainer sold the horse for a small amount (from the sound of the post) with an agreement
A year on the OP now wants to sell the horse for an awful lot more, the trainer probably feels lied to, to get a 'cheap' horse.
You see and hear of so many exracers in the wrong homes, that i think its great that they care. Realistically the OP is not 'out of pocket' the running costs of a horses are not in Lou, if it was my pony would be worth hundreds of thousands of pounds!! What you've spent over the year is irrelevant unless you was thinking of sell for profit from the start. If you had the horses best interest at heart, you'd return him to the trainer, so the trainer can find another appropriate home. Im guessing the small amount paid, probably covers there time for the home visits etc
If your friend is interested in the horse, could she contact them? They might do the checks without the horses needing to be moved and then make another agreement with them directly.
martlin
Well-Known Member
Yeah, and get another £300 or whatever they sold the horse for. Thing is, a small amount of money or not, the horse was sold for its market value to the OP. The OP made the horse more expensive, and I'm not talking about spending money on feeding and looking after it, I'm talking about producing it.
Out of the two parties, I know which I can see demonstrating a loss in a court case, and it isn't the trainer.
Flyermc
Well-Known Member
Your only guessing that they would re-charge, it could be all about the home, knowing where the horses end-up and not the money. They could have sold the horse to the OP for £50 with an agreement because she offered a good long term home and she hasnt done, a year on she wants sell.
The agreement was probably put in place to prevent the horses ending up in the wrong hands, which i think is a great idea
zaminda
Well-Known Member
Is there a copy of the agreement online anywhere? I can get someone I know to have a quick look at it.
For me the fact that it was only ticked post you signing it is pretty obvious. I do find the fact some people seem to think the trainer is only looking to secure the best interests of the horse interesting. Maybe I have simply met too many trainers who don't care about the horses once the bills stop being paid.
For me the fact that it was only ticked post you signing it is pretty obvious. I do find the fact some people seem to think the trainer is only looking to secure the best interests of the horse interesting. Maybe I have simply met too many trainers who don't care about the horses once the bills stop being paid.
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
This exactly. If they hadn't cared where it ended up they would have sent it to the sales to take pot luck. They were trying to do the decent thing for it.
Flyermc
Well-Known Member
I do see what you mean about trainers, but the fact they did home checks etc, must show that they care where the horses end-up, otherwise just send them for meat/sales?
zaminda
Well-Known Member
Sadly not necessarily. Base price at ascot sales which is where all the really slow ones end up is about £400. The cost of getting there and having a lad there for the day can often be in excess of £200. They don't all sell in the ring as there is only so much market for racehorses who don't make the grade, so can be an expensive and fruitless exercise. Many trainers will do home checks in order to make sure the horse isn't going to kill the new owner, leaving them in court.
Flyermc
Well-Known Member
I dont work in racing (never had) but it still seems 'odd' to me.
If the trainer didnt care, sold the horse for £50/£100 and only did the home check to cover themselves, why tick the box? Surely they be happy to 'wash there hands' of the horse at this point, im guessing they re-home lots of horses, so wont be wanting them returned
The trainer runs the risk for having an injured, mistreated horse returned, why would they take that chance? OPs horse sounds lovely, but its not a comp horse and there are 1000's of leisure horses looking for homes and exracers are not always the most popular breed for happy hackers. The trainers running the risk that it might take months to find a good home and then have to do all the checks again, which all costs.
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
flyermc, the problem comes in the fact that the OP bought the horse with a non racing agreement which she is complying with HOWEVER the trainer ticked the box AFTER the OP had signed and without informing the OP or discussing it with her (which is btw illegal). I for one would happily buy a horse with an NRA I would not buy one where I could not sell it afterwards. I dont sell my horses, I have them with me for life but circumstances can change and if i'd put blood sweat and tears into a horses training I'd want the reward for it.
zaminda
Well-Known Member
I imagine in case the horse turned out to be good, and OP would make a profit selling. The fact that they want the horse back FOC without even returning what was actually paid for the horse leads me to believe they are not just interested in the horses' best interests. The tick in the box just gives them the option to block the sale, it doesn't say they will take the horse back.
VP2009
Active Member
VP2009
Active Member
Does anyone know if I could be taken to court over this? I have contacted the Police over threatening messages/constant phone calls etc as I have removed the trainers from social media / contact . The Police don't want to know and saying it's a civil matter despite me being harassed. I have contacted weatherbys and British Horseracing Authority who say I officially own the horse and the agreement's main objective is to make sure the horse never runs. Both of these racing organisations have said what the trainers have done is wrong but it's common and can only be resolved between the trainers and myself. But obviously this will not happen.
If I get taken to court will I have to pay any costs if it's not me doing the taking to court?
If I get taken to court will I have to pay any costs if it's not me doing the taking to court?
gembear
Well-Known Member
Police can't do much because it is a civil matter. As for the harrassment you mention, would depend on the seriousness of it for them to be able to do anything.
From what others have said, sounds like you'll be fine tbh but i don't know personally.
You really need to speak to a Solictor. Folk have mentioned that a few times.
AmyMay
Situation normal
**sigh......**
honetpot
Well-Known Member
If this man is harassing you I would right a formal letter of complaint to the BHA, he has to renew his license every year.
http://www.britishhorseracing.com/r...TR001201415 (New Trainers Guidance Notes).pdf
http://www.britishhorseracing.com/r...TR001201415 (New Trainers Guidance Notes).pdf
martlin
Well-Known Member
If you get taken to court, which I seriously doubt, you will not have to pay any costs unless you lose. I find it difficult to imagine how you would lose, as previously mentioned, there is no loss to the trainer as such, but stranger things have happened.
RunToEarth
Well-Known Member
Racehorse trainers get so much flack on this forum for treating failed racers as disposable.
The trainer OP alludes to sold the horse for a small amount, with a restrictive clause to stop the horse getting passed from pillar to post.
OP now wants to sell it to fund a new horse, having had it for a year, presumably making a profit on it.
And the opinion on here is to break the terms of the agreement and sell anyway?
You have no idea what their legal come back could be - they could feel very strongly about this.
The trainer OP alludes to sold the horse for a small amount, with a restrictive clause to stop the horse getting passed from pillar to post.
OP now wants to sell it to fund a new horse, having had it for a year, presumably making a profit on it.
And the opinion on here is to break the terms of the agreement and sell anyway?
You have no idea what their legal come back could be - they could feel very strongly about this.
Queenbee
Well-Known Member
What stands out to me, (not that its of any help) is "or disposed of" so what, the horse breaks a leg and you are expected to contact them to get their consent to dispose of the horse??? Whilst in essence i like the idea of the box. Op, i do feel for you. However, if you cant afford £70 to join the bHS and get advice, why not send the horse back to the previous owner and not buy another
dieseldog
Well-Known Member
If the case goes through the small claims court, which it should really, and you lose you the extra costs you get caught for is cost of filing the papers which is about £80 and interest on the amount they are claiming. But if they want the horse back for free they are saying it is worthless??? To be a valid contract there has to be a consideration on each side?? They get a horse you get ???? And as they are proposing to give you nothing they value her at £0.
All sounds very upsetting and I hope it all gets sorted out.
martlin
Well-Known Member
Exactly, in this scenario, the OP gave the trainer lets say £300 and the trainer gave the horse, should the trainer take the horse away from the OP, she could sue the trainer for the £300, surely?
I'm not quite sure what the trainer can sue for?
VP2009
Active Member
wow you're very good. Excellent thanks. The trainer has his reputation to lose. I am a nobody in the horse industry and just a hobby rider not wishing to base my livelihood around horses! If they continue in their manner and show up at my stables or house I will be contacting the BHA. Thanks ever so much.
VP2009
Active Member
It's not that I don't have £70 it's that I'd rather spend £70 on shoes (for the horse) [/I]
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
But NONE of the replies on here are proper legal advice. The £70 to get true, professional, legal help could be the best £70 you ever spent.
Capriole
Well-Known Member
Really? Would you be happy to stick to terms of an agreement you didn't know about and didn't agree to at the point of sale? The OP states that this clause wasn't discussed with her and she didn't agree to it, and that the box regarding the clause was ticked by the other party AFTER she had signed the form and returned it. Would you really be happy to stick to terms that you didn't agree to and wouldn't have agreed to at the time? I know I certainly wouldn't.
Pretty sure that changing the terms after the OP signed isn't legal...but I've no legal training.
And on that note OP, I'm finding myself getting annoyed with you now, you've had some very good advice on this thread about *getting actual real legal advice from someone that practises law*. It's all well and good asking for advice on a forum, but bear in mind that some people will with great confidence and authority talk utter b*llocks about things they haven't got a clue about.
You can join the BHS and become a gold member whereby you will be eligible for legal advice, and you can do it for less than a tenner a month, so you don't even need to find £70 up front. If you can't spare a few quid you might as well send the horse back now tbh. Not a lot of point worrying about £70 shoe money right now in your situation, I'd say.
Gloi
Too little time, too much to read.
With the legal advice, the insurance and the work they do for horses and riders it would be worth far more than any set of shoes.
honetpot
Well-Known Member
I have actually used the BHS legal helpline when I needed to evict someone. Basically you are put through to a solicitor who I got the impression was just drumming up business and it was a complete waste of time and not worth your membership if that was the main purpose of joining. I got more information from law web sites, some security staff that handle evictions and real practical advise from someone who runs a letting agency and applies to the courts to evict people her self and does all the paperwork. The result was I evicted this person myself and didn't need to go to court by using the advice I got.
I have never had to use the free half hours that some solicitors will give you so can not comment on how useful these are but I do not see that see what's wrong in asking people for advice as long as you try and filter it and look on government web sites for 'hard' information.
I have never had to use the free half hours that some solicitors will give you so can not comment on how useful these are but I do not see that see what's wrong in asking people for advice as long as you try and filter it and look on government web sites for 'hard' information.
ozpoz
Well-Known Member
A year is nothing - it sounds as if you are trying to profit from the mare, which is exactly the kind of home her previous owner didn't want. You are aiming to advertise her, so in reality have no idea where she will end up. You have spent £1000 over a year, on 8 saddles, some chiropractor work and lessons. That is nothing. Presumably you still have the saddle and have benefitted from the lessons.
I would return the horse to the trainer/ owner as they really do seem to have her best interests at heart to be trying to secure a safe future for her. From what you have written, I don't think you do.
I would return the horse to the trainer/ owner as they really do seem to have her best interests at heart to be trying to secure a safe future for her. From what you have written, I don't think you do.
WelshD
Well-Known Member
Yes but the OP did receive a copy of the agreement back with the box ticked before they put most of the work in to the horse so they had the choice then whether to a) read it b) if they read it then challenge it at that point or c) blithely ignore it till the full implications of it were realised (ie now)
Yes I think you are right changing the terms after signing would be illegal but the OP has to prove that's the case surely? if they didn't notice the box ticked till now (apparently) its possible they missed it when they signed or could at least be argued that way
OP in your shoes I think you need to negotiate with the trainer and say that you plan to sell the horse as she is your legal property and you wont be entertaining any requests to pass her back for free but that you will be vetting new homes carefully and maybe even offer to have one of their representatives attend final viewings - this negotiation will tell you how interested in a good home they actually are