Advice needed; Is this a Ewe Neck/Swan Neck or Straight Neck

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HannahKate98

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I purchased my OTTB in october 2016, he has only been worked lightly as he was on the thin side when I got him and had sever mud fever (caused slight lameness for a short time) but all is sorted now.

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Looking at his neck I was just wondering if its a true ewe neck, a swan neck, a straight neck (lacking topline). Just so I know what I am working with when I being schooling him properly this year.

If it can be improved other then ridden work (as I know exercises under saddle to help) Will lunging with the help of a pessoa truly help or is this just a short term fix?

much appreciated
 
I would say ewe necked lacking top line. Does he always stand like that? Has he always had a big belly?

Personally I would not use a pessoa and take it very slowly with hacking over varied terrain and hill work. He looks very weak atm. But he has a lovely honest face.
 
Nudibranch said:
I would say ewe necked lacking top line. Does he always stand like that? Has he always had a big belly?

Personally I would not use a pessoa and take it very slowly with hacking over varied terrain and hill work. He looks very weak atm. But he has a lovely honest face.
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Ha no he normally stands far more evenly he had just been asked to back up and seconds after i took that picture he moved his forelegs further forward (he's an odd ball) He always has a large belly even in his racing days (not quite this big but we have been struggling to get weight on him. I personally thought he looked weak he had 3 years off work before the decision was made to fully retire him and its defiantly showing. He occasionally works in an outline when ridden but not for long due to his build and lack of work etc. Thank you for the advice
 
aw he looks lovely! at the moment he is just lacking topline and muscle. The neck will build up once the correct muscles are being worked. I am absolutely loath to use pessoas and stuff on exracers. A high percentage of them will drop easily into a contact naturally because of the way their necks are set on their bodies, and i find the issue is actually getting them not to curl under and go overbent, which i find pessoas and gadgets can do. You just see so many people push horses too far and too long in pessoas for where the horses muscles and education are at.

I used them for years but recently sold mine after going to work on some horses with a high level dressage trainer. From her i now see and understand (and this is my personal understanding, i am always open to debate) that that young and green horses need to be going around in a young frame until they have been progressively built up and are able to use their backs, pessoas restrict the frame and don't allow this. From going to debates with eric smiler and william micklem, they do very little or no lunging with young or green horses. They prefer to get them out naturally hacking up hills, build them up and encourage self carraige slowly once the horse. i find the pessoa does get their heads down, but it jabs at each step forward.

I prefer to hack them out doing long and low and letting them just use their hind end properly and let them work into a soft contact. i don't care where their heads are at until they have worked up some correct muscle and they are stronger.
 
thank you for replying, yes I've only every used pessoas on horses that i have had ready schooled and already well muscled. I've tried one on him but he didn't seem to like it. I used it on the long and low setting for about 10 minutes and thats when i gave up he was fighting it with every step even though it was loose, just too much for him. Ill defiantly be taking him on more hacks really can't wait to get him fit after having so long off after his racing injury years ago.
 
I agree he looks weak and lacking in muscle, and looking at the size and shape of his belly I presume you have wormed him or at least had an FEC done? I would be supplementing with protein to enable him to build soft tissue including muscle, alongside the correct work (long and low, forget "outlines" until he can offer it in response to working from behind).
Good luck, he has the makings of a very nice horse
 
yes he has been FEC with a low count (we wormed anyway, only FEC to see if he is a naturally wormy horse or not) he's recently been put on lots of calm and condition too boost his weight (obviously gone to his belly first, he is a naturally big barrelled here even was while racing) thank you for the advice.
 
I think using a pessoa on a horse without muscle tone would easily just make them resist as it is trying to work something they just do not have. If her were mine I would have the usual physio and teeth checks done (which you have probably already done) and then lots of work longreining and ridden at an active walk pushing forwards to the bit will help start to strengthen his abdomen and allow the topline to work. the muscle will in some ways be easier to build with him as he does not have much already there to have to change and you will only be developing new. one thing to be very careful of is the saddle fit because he will need room to develop muscle and if it is fitted to his current shape it will most likely be pinching.
 
He looks like a nice person. Once he has his top line back, he will look great. as to his neck... just needs some muscle.... ride him correctly and he will look great.
 
Just think of how you would feel if heading to the gym after going completely soft with no exercise and then having a heavy workout. I always hold that analogy in my mind and it makes me careful when using lunging devices. Your horse looks to be lacking topline IMO and I would be following the others advice of gradually building up fitness and using hacking and hills. My mare had been out of work (broodmare) for over 2 years and we literally started with 5 minutes walk every day and built up on a week by week basis. It was about her strengthening her muscles to carry me as well as herself. She was a TB x cob and had previously evented to intermediate so I did have the advantage of good muscle memory but it took over 6 months till she reached sufficient fitness to think about prepping for eventing again.
 
This is a slightly better picture of him after his light beach ride (walk and trot) yesterday.

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his fitness in terms of cardio are incredible his previous owner did say he maintains that well however his fitness in terms of strength is what is lacking. Thank you for the replies and it looks like more hill work and hacking will be the best for him along with the riding he already gets (walk trot and a few canters in the fields)
 
Is the photo from an advert? It has a Horse and Hound address on it, which is unusual of it is a photo you recently took of him. Can we see one of him stood up straight, please, because in that photo he looks to me like a horse in pain, probably but not necessarily in the back or pelvis area.


We cross posted, I'll take a look at the new one, but at first glance it's much better but still not right in the back end.

What was his racing injury?
 
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unfortunately after all the necessary checks back teeth x-rays etc the vet has found nothing to suggest why he stands like this, he can stand straight but just prefers standing like this. (vet said its an ex race horse thing -not sure about that but he is perfectly comfortable standing like this and working from behind)

his racing injury was a forelimb tendon problem, not effecting his hind limbs. honestly not sure why he likes to stand like this he will happily stand square when ridden just lazy the vet, farrier, and chiro have said.

most defiantly a recent picture.
 
HannahKate98 said:
unfortunately after all the necessary checks back teeth x-rays etc the vet has found nothing to suggest why he stands like this, he can stand straight but just prefers standing like this. (vet said its an ex race horse thing -not sure about that but he is perfectly comfortable standing like this and working from behind)

his racing injury was a forelimb tendon problem, not effecting his hind limbs. honestly not sure why he likes to stand like this he will happily stand square when ridden just lazy the vet, farrier, and chiro have said.

most defiantly a recent picture.
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I'd be very interested to see some video of how he moves. I've had a lot of ex racers, none of them stood like that.
 
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this is him standing slightly straighter i don't have any on my computer of him standing straight with his hind end. His movement with his hind end is almost perfectly straight, he has more of an issue with his foreleg (occasional lameness from the injury-normally if he gallops around his paddock bucking and squealing) i must try to get some photos of him standing square
 
ycbm said:
Is the photo from an advert? It has a Horse and Hound address on it, which is unusual of it is a photo you recently took of him.
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No it isnt. One of the easiest ways to get a photo on here is to load them to your profile as an attachment. What a weird thing to say!
 
ycbm said:
Is the photo from an advert? It has a Horse and Hound address on it, which is unusual of it is a photo you recently took of him. Can we see one of him stood up straight, please, because in that photo he looks to me like a horse in pain, probably but not necessarily in the back or pelvis area.


We cross posted, I'll take a look at the new one, but at first glance it's much better but still not right in the back end.

What was his racing injury?
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the only photo i have of him square ish- it is possible for him and he does it rather a lot just not when i get my camera out unfortunately.
 
He looks lovely. Just lacking muscle to me rather than ewe necked. My mare when I got her was really skinny and had a very thin neck. She muscled up and padded up beautifully with decent food and lots of hacking up and down hills. In fact she has gone the opposite way and is a bit cresty now cos she is a glutton. You wouldn't believe the pics of when she originally came to me. Took a good 18 months to fill out though.
 
MDB said:
He looks lovely. Just lacking muscle to me rather than ewe necked. My mare when I got her was really skinny and had a very thin neck. She muscled up and padded up beautifully with decent food and lots of hacking up and down hills. In fact she has gone the opposite way and is a bit cresty now cos she is a glutton. You wouldn't believe the pics of when she originally came to me. Took a good 18 months to fill out though.
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thank you for replying and its so nice to see a reply that gives me hope and confidence in my boy, even if he never looks perfect I'm just happy to give my ex racer the home he deserves after a racing career from 2005-2014 its time for him to wind down a little just want him to muscle up for his own benefit x
 
Leo Walker said:
No it isnt. One of the easiest ways to get a photo on here is to load them to your profile as an attachment. What a weird thing to say!
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I didn't know that, I've never seen one done that way before. Most people use something like photobucket. You learn something new every day.

Glad you've taken me off UI :)
 
ycbm said:
I didn't know that, I've never seen one done that way before. Most people use something like photobucket. You learn something new every day.

Glad you've taken me of UI :)
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to be honest I've tried with photo bucket and can't for the life of me get it to work
 
He does look a bit uncomfy on all of the pictures, hopefully down to weakness and lack of balance, everything looks reasonably in the right place though so with unsoundness ruled out and lots of slow progressive work over a good period of time I think he could turn into an attractive horse.

I found an equiami useful on an incorrectly shaped and weak horse. It suggests that stretching and relaxing is possible rather than forcing and does not smack them in the mouth, use with caution on a weak horse for very short sessions regularly.
 
I would be concerned there is an underlying issue that makes him tuck under like that. When one of mine did that it was a sign of sacroilliac issues. You might be lucky and not have any, but if you noticed any symptoms in the future it when riding it might be worth looking into. mine used to stand the same
 
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