advice needed on failed vetting

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charmaine

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I was going to buy my loan horse but he has failed the vetting on the flexion test on left hind. Vet says this could show there are signs of early arthritic changes.
He is perfectly sound on normal trot up.

He says I have one of two options
a. Renegotiate the price down to something more sensible
b. Having him rechecked in a months time ( he says he is still probably going to go lame on it following flexion)

I asked him what this meant for future ridden use and he says he could go lame next week, next month or maybe never. Not very helpful really.
I still want to buy him because he is the perfect horse for me but obviously there is now a risk attached.

My question is what would you offer the owner for him bearing this in mind? A very good condition Albion saddle plus all other tack and rugs will be included in whatever price we agree. I have told her the results of the vetting and she is willing to negotiate.
 
er............. can i ask why have you paid for professional advise and then not taking it? cos surely your vet will answer weather this horse is fit for 'your use'. And the vet has seen horse in flesh.

Sorry to sound harsh, but if horse has failed, why buy unsoundeness or future pain and upset

If you still really really want to buy. I personnel would drop price hugely as you'll get an insurance excuslion straightway and arthritic changes WILL ONLY go one way............. even with careful management.

Sorry but i've had too many days off through unsoundness and personel I would walk away
 
I once bought a horse on a failed vetting and it went horribly wrong but this is ultimately a decision you have to make. Is there any way you could keep it on loan? If not, only buy for a tiny price
xxx
 
Is this the horse that the owner wanted £4500 for? Flexion tests are a very grey area - some vets put a lot of store by them, some don't. If you just want to hack and do low grade stuff and he is perfect in every way for you, then I wouldn't be put off but would definitely renegotiate the price greatly. I can't remember how old he is, but he is 15hh isn't he?
 
It is a difficult decision. Flexion tests are a bit hit and miss in my mind. My mare with spavin and sacro iliac issues will still pass a flexion test, other horses can be lame on flexion but carry on sound for years/to the end.

How old is he? I think there are risks with all horses and at least with this one you'll be going into it knowing what could be wrong. What do you want to do with him? if you do lots of jumping, I'd definately rethink, but if it is mainly hacking and general schooling, it's probably not such a big deal...
 
you are in almost exacly the same boat we found ourselves in six months ago when we were buying a youngster for my daughter..the pony failed the vetting for the very same reason 1/2 tenth lame in hind leg on flextion..we had a pair of shoes put on the pony and got her retested after another month during which we got her a lot fitter as when we got her she was brought from the field having been off during a family break up..she was retested and seems fine..we know there maybe an increased risk she has a bog or bone spavin forming and that maybe why she was lame but we weighed up everything and decided to take the chance ..you could always have a few x-rays done while she is on loan and at least you might have more of an idea..and infact we were the second lot of people who had made the same choice that week that the vet had done checks on..how lame was the horse?
 
Lots of horses fail flexion tests, If you have had this horse on loan for some time and he has stayed sound during the type of work you do with him, there is no reason for him to suddenly go lame when you pay your money over. Yes, if you want to buy him, go back to the seller and say I want x pounds off the price because he failed the vetting.

My own ex-loan horse would have failed the vetting on wind - she makes a very slight noise. I loaned her for 2 years and have now had her for a total of 7 years, she is as sound as a bell and my horse of a lifetime. I don't do the sort of sustained fast work that might possibly create a problem for her.
 
Kick on - the veterinary advice was to renegotiate the price or have him rechecked in a months time. He didn't say don't buy him he just said not at anywhere near his asking price.
Tall and Small - yes he is the one the owner was asking £4,500 for. She now realises she won't get anywhere near that and is prepared to take a significant drop.
I really wanted advice on a price to offer as at a cheap price would be prepared to take the risk. I have rung the insurance company and they would just exclude the one leg he failed on.
 
buying any horse comes with a risk.
it could pass a vetting, then go lame a week later , and never become sound. that happened to a friends vet, so if it can happen to them, it can happen to anyone.

some people have no faith in flexion tests as they vary sooooo much by each vet, and can actually make a horse appear lame.
what you need to asess is
1) has the horse shown any signs of lameness/ arthritis during your loan period./ what you will be doing with horse.
2) how much do you like this horse. nothing is ever perfect. could you live with him having artritis in the future( which many horses do end up with)
3)think long and hard. if it is the horse for you, go for it, but always have it in the back of your mind that he may get artritis. however, any horse can get arthritis, at varying degrees.
personally, if the horse is the right one for you, you can live with future implications, then go for it, with reduced cost.
only you can decide .
 
i would pay up to 3k and insure him without a vetting cert.

Most insurance companies will cover you up to 3k (some are more) without the cert.
That way they wont know he failed or has a problem and you will have no exclusions on your policy.

I have brought 2 horse now that have failed flexion - flexion tests are the only part of a vetting i have an opposed opinion about. Anything else i agree with vet and walk away - flexions are different.
your choice - the 2 i had have both been fine - with one of them selling 3yrs later for 3 times what i paid for her and she PASSED the vetting.
 
I bought a horse for £500 that had failed flexion test on a hind leg, the vendor was previously asking £4000, till he failed the vet. As said flexion tests are a very grey area, some fail it and go on to work a normal life. Have his hock xrayed see if there is anything, but then if its not hock it could be stifle, and then you could go on and on and spending money, just offer her a lot less money and enjoy this horse for what it is. And if the worse comes to the worse in a few years time it wont hurt to work him on a bute, thousands of hunters go for years on a bute.
 
I bought Merlin after he passed a 5stage vetting..... he passed it with flying colours and yet he has horrific arthritic changes to one hind fetlock..... he must have had this when he was vetted as it was a different shape to the other hind!!!

But although he has had loads of treatment, he has stayed sound and in full work throughout.... the treatment was to help delay any further changes.


If in every other way this horse is perfect then it is worth carrying on with the purchase.... especially if you have known him to be sound for a fair period of time... ie, while loaning him.

I have sold a pony who failed the flexion big time.... infact he couldnt put his foot to the floor for a good 12 strides, and he has been sound ever since..... this was 5 years ago.

Also another pony that went lame for the rest of the weekend post flexion, that also went on to stay sound for at least 3 years before he was sold again (this time passing flexion)

Its a gamble, but a calculated one. Any horse is a gamble though, and at least you know that you 'like' this horse and he isnt going to throw any nasty temperament or behaviour surprises!!!
 
I have always been wary on flexion tests.
The pony I was selling failed a 2 stage vetting on her flexions- the vetting was done by a stand in trainee vet, who said she was 2/10s lame on flexions.
She was revetted for some different prospective buyers, had a 5 stage vetting with the Cheltnham racecourse vet and she passed with flying colours, even put "excellent" in his notes re the flexions (yes I took a sneeky look when he put his clipboard down!).

Just to let you know how "touch and go" flexions can be. Good luck whatever you decide, I would be cheeky and offer £2500 and see what they said to that.
 
So does this mean you knew he was unsound before vetting??? If you push any decent vets they will answer whether horse will be fit for your type of work. From this i assume you only want a hack not competetion horse?
I'm sure horse is lovely(not questioning this) BUT are you ready to invest your heart and soul??, CAN YOU REALLY COPE with the upset of having a unsound horse which you maybe can't ride??

If you really really want, i personnely wouldn't offer any more than £1,000 this would be subject to x-ray beening done before handing over any dosh
 
neither of my horses in my opinion would pass a vetting. one i have had for four years and never has vet out to her other then routine shes out competing or hunting most weekends with no problems, she just needs a canter before she is 100% sound on some days. the other i have bought to hunt and as long as he isn't in pain what does it matter if he won't pass a vetting. as long as you don;t spend silly money and are sensible about it then i cant see the harm in buying, ( ask you vet in his honest opinion if he was you would he buy it and see what he says )
 
How about paying to have an xray done of both his hocks so you can see how bad the damage is? Mind you they will probably want to take 3 of each hock to get all the angles in, so maybe get a quote first!

My mare failed a vetting on her flexion test on hocks, bought her for half price (but then owner refused to give me the previously included saddle so cost me another £500!) and I had 3 years of fun with her before the hocks became an issue and she had to be retired and eventually pts. If horse is perfect in all other ways, I would take a chance and buy.

How old is horse?
 
Oh bummer! I was egging you on to buy the horse and now this happens. Like other posters said though, flexion tests are one of the few vetting things that wouldn't necessarily put me off buying. My 'horse of a lifetime' failed on one hind leg at the age of 7. She remained sound to the day she died. She also reared during the vetting and I still bought her. It was love at 1st sight!

Anyway back to the question. I would suggest that, assuming you still want the horse, you could either ask the owner to pay for xrays, or I would offer about £2.5K including tack.
 
I might be completely wrong but I am sure I read Over To You failed a flexon test at Doncaster sales prior to his eventing career..........just goes to show you can never tell.
If you feel the horse is right for you offer less money, if you dont think its worth the risk leave it alone.
 
The first horse I bought was advertised for sale for £1800. Had him vetted, failed flexion test, had xrayed turned out to be ringbone. Vet said could be fine could go lame tomorrow. Took a chance and bought him for £950. Best horse ever. Never had a day off work through lameness. I was lucky.

Next horse I owned, decided to sell, had 2 people prepared to pay £7k for him but he failed vetting on flexion, xrays revealed possible arthritic changes. I sold him for £2500 because of this, the buyer knew he'd failed vetting and why. From what I've heard he's been off work a couple of times through lameness since then. so not so lucky for that buyer.
 
this is a very enlighting thread..having brought a pony failing on a flextion test and thinking myself a little mad taking the gamble but i find i'm not alone..the mare we have is in work and my daughter is having a great time on her she has an amazing jump clearly loves it and appears to be in no discomfort at any height..fingers crossed we will have years of fun on her if not then we will face that if we need to..ponies and horses have proven to me that you NEVER know what is around the corner with them for all i know she could be struck down with colic or have a slip in the field which has happened to two top ponies on our yard both being lost..both top class with full vettings..equines are a gamble
 
Bought a horse under exactly the same circumstances. The price we paid meant we purchased the tack/wardrobe and got a free horse thrown in
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I would make your decision on xrays as that is what we did. That way you have a good idea of whats not right and you also have xrays to refer back to if a lameness develops.
 
I bought my loan horse that I knew had failed a vetting on a flexion test thats why I ended up having her on loan......15 years later i still have her and she is still sound at 24
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But to be fair I paid peanuts for her because the owner knew she would fail the vet (was for sale for £5k before she failed I paid £1K). I asked the vets advice when I decided to buy her and like he said you have ridden her every day for a year and she has been fine and there is no guarentees with any horse what ever its age and background! If you are happy to take the risk and can afford to pay if the horse did go lame I wouldnt hesititate like you say you know it is the horse for you
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