Upthecreek
Well-Known Member
What exercise are you doing with the horse? You said it could not be lunged or ridden at the vetting as not broken.
Advice needed on returning a horse to a dealer
- Thread starter Floralaura
- Start date
SEL
Well-Known Member
Given it took 4 months , multiple vet visits, 2 camera scopes and a 2nd opinion to get to the root of my pony's breathing issues then I can see how a vet could miss the problem in a one-off visit.
Still the horse you bought isn't fit for purpose though so I'd be trying the legal route
Still the horse you bought isn't fit for purpose though so I'd be trying the legal route
Floralaura
New User
None, just out in small paddock. We have lunged the horse probably 6 times, had to teach him to lunge, but it's almost cruel to do it as he just can't breathe.
Floralaura
New User
This one makes such a noise you could be the other end of the arena and still hear it.
stormox
Well-Known Member
Have you had the horse scoped? Is it laryngeal paralysis or some other problem? If its an infection or allergy it probably could have come overnight.
Floralaura
New User
Yes scoped twice, video scope by top equine vet 2nd time. Have video of scope. Complete paralysis.
smiggy
Well-Known Member
What do your vets think re onset ?
would they back you in a claim that was pre exsisting condition, in which case a claim against the vetting vets might be the way forward if dealer adamant wasn’t an issue .
would they back you in a claim that was pre exsisting condition, in which case a claim against the vetting vets might be the way forward if dealer adamant wasn’t an issue .
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Ach, what a mess, I can practically hear you kicking yourself but we all make mistakes.
I would have expected a vetting of a three year old to include having it either lunged or run round the arena or a round pen loose to asses heart function, lameness, whether the action was fit for the intended use and breathing. I think your best bet might be to claim against the vet for not doing a full vetting, but I think you need the advice of an equine solicitor.
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blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
Nerve damage can happen at any time — you are probably on a fairly sticky wicket when it comes to the legality of this. The vet you appointed (recommended by the seller or not) aka ‘an expert’ said the horse was sound and fit for purpose. This is pretty much proof in the court system that the horse was damaged on your watch. Youd have to go along the route of fraud / negligence by the vet which would give you a case against the vet but not the owner, or that they colluded to deceive you which is fraud and as this is criminal, needs to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt... which would give you recourse on both. The consumers rights act would not apply in a business to business transaction and you had someone inspect ‘the goods’ as your specialist advisor (vet) prior to they being sent to you which )even if you werent a business ) scuppers the distance selling rights (which also do not apply to businesses) all in all its probably time to cut your losses.
VRIN
Well-Known Member
You are unlikely to have recourse against the vet as its only a snapshot on the day of the vetting. However if he/she said they 'missed' it on a horse they bought themselves you may be able to suggest they are not competent to vet a horse. if its a dealer you can ask for a full refund within 30 days of purchase as it is not of satisfactory quality under the Sale of Goods act
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
sales of goods act is gone... it’s superceded by the consumer rights act and doesn’t cover business to business transactions
Kat
Well-Known Member
You are wrong. The small claims court can be used by businesses and private individuals.
Your status as a private buyer does make a difference to the laws that apply.
Kaylum
Well-Known Member
I would have a word with the vet that did the vetting. Make sure they are fully registered and ask for the vets report. Good vets will not touch dodgy dealers. There are some vets who aren't vets and aren't registered but nobody bothers checking up on them. My friend had this happen to her. A new vet came to the area he started his practice he was not actually a vet. He got found out but only after he had done lots of damage and had put healthy animals to sleep. Another thing to do is put a post about your horse on Facebook horse groups it's surprising now many people will private message you about what's happened and that they know of the horse etc.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
Well you need legal advice, but my non legal thoughts are:
I can see how a vet would miss it in an unbacked 3yo just loose in the school for the vetting. But that doesn’t absolve them completely - a paralysis on scope is pretty cut and dried. It doesn’t just happen overnight, but can become more obvious over time.
Anyway, I think that’s pretty irrelevant.
The crux of it is a wind issue, undeclared (even if dealer genuinely didn’t know), is a very valid reason to reject a horse. I’d just start court proceedings against the dealer given you are within a reasonable time from purchase.
I can see how a vet would miss it in an unbacked 3yo just loose in the school for the vetting. But that doesn’t absolve them completely - a paralysis on scope is pretty cut and dried. It doesn’t just happen overnight, but can become more obvious over time.
Anyway, I think that’s pretty irrelevant.
The crux of it is a wind issue, undeclared (even if dealer genuinely didn’t know), is a very valid reason to reject a horse. I’d just start court proceedings against the dealer given you are within a reasonable time from purchase.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
It can. It did on a horse I owned and I pointed above to a research paper on 127 horses, some of which were spontaneous in origin.
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The Jokers Girl
Well-Known Member
No advise to the original OP but can anyone explain how a horse passes a 5 stage vetting when it can't be ridden or lunged, as certain aspects of a 5 stage need ridden work and/or lunging etc.
Would this horse that was not trained to lunge and was unbacked only realistically been able to be 2 stage vetted?
Would this horse that was not trained to lunge and was unbacked only realistically been able to be 2 stage vetted?
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
That's my view, and if a five stage was offered and charged for I think there's a case against the vet. There are a lot of checks done at or after speed work.
I'm NOT a suing person, but something has gone wrong here.
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The Jokers Girl
Well-Known Member
Thanks ycbm, not just me finding that odd then.
Errin Paddywack
Well-Known Member
When my colt was put forward for stallion approval with the breed society he had to undergo a pretty full vetting including fast work on the lunge. The vet thought he could hear a whistle so I had to make my boy gallop as fast as possible on the lunge. He was 2.5 yrs. That would not have shown up just running loose in the arena. He was scoped and passed. I never heard him whistle then or in the future. It does not sound to me as though the vet did a full 5 stage vetting in this case.
Upthecreek
Well-Known Member
That’s why I asked the question about what exercise the horse had been having after purchase if it couldn’t be lunged or ridden for the vetting. I don’t see how the horse could ‘pass’ a 5 stage vetting with these elements being missed out. If the horse could not be ridden or lunged what was it doing in the videos the buyer saw pre-purchase?
Kaylum
Well-Known Member
What was the name of the vet?
Get yourself on here https://www.rcvs.org.uk/registration/check-the-register/ see if they are registered and if they are take it further with the practice.
If not they will be in serious trouble for impersonating a vet.
What was the vetting for, what sort of horse did you ask the vet to do the vetting for? Ridden? Non Ridden? They have to advise if it is suitable for the reason your purchasing the horse.
Get yourself on here https://www.rcvs.org.uk/registration/check-the-register/ see if they are registered and if they are take it further with the practice.
If not they will be in serious trouble for impersonating a vet.
What was the vetting for, what sort of horse did you ask the vet to do the vetting for? Ridden? Non Ridden? They have to advise if it is suitable for the reason your purchasing the horse.
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Fred66
Well-Known Member
A 5 stage vetting can be performed on an unbroken horse but the ridden phase is replaced by lunging.
The Jokers Girl
Well-Known Member
I understand that, which was why I put " as certain aspects of the 5 stage need ridden work and/ or lunging" but my query was how has this horse legitimately been 5 stage vetted when no ridden work or lunging were carried out. Although I think YCBM has hit the nail on the head in her reply to my post.
The OP has said at time of vetting horse was not trained to lunge nor had it been backed and neither of these could be done at vetting
Fred66
Well-Known Member
Sorry should have said they can also be loose schooled as an alternate to lunging.
Unless OP believes that the pre-purchase vet didn’t do the test thoroughly and has sufficient evidence to prove this then as it is a trade to trade transaction I think it unlikely they will win a legal case.
However the insurance may cover her as she had the pre-purchase vetting that did show any signs of the illness and if the insurers believe it did exist at time of purchase and won’t payout then OP might be able to get her insurers to instigate proceedings against the vet.