Advice needed please for a close friend...

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Troyseph

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Hi all this is on behalf of s very close friend. Thanks for reading!

She owns a 16.1 ISH x gelding, he is still young. (6) and a lovely boy buy my can he be a bit of a handful.

Basically he is perfect hacking alone/in company at slower work (walking/trotting on roads etc) but once the work becomes faster (trails/fields canter gallop etc) he becomes extremely hard to hold, my friend literally holds him the whole time because as soon as you release the Reins he just tanks off.... He does stop relatively quickly with a fight! but still, very hard and tends to tank off leaning on the bit, head tucked right under literally pulling you away!...like a steam train

He also after doing faster work, when asked to walk will not! He jogs jogs jogs constantly, and will not walk at all.she has him in a eggbutt snaffle, with flash. She has tried him in a French link, gag etc which didn't make much difference.

She can't school in a proper school either as we don't have one, so we have to make do schooling on hacks as much as we can...:-/
Advice is gratefully appreciated thank u

Iv suggested a waterford but she won't try it...:-/...
 
I have had success with this method;

when he tanks off let him go, let him lose some steam, then when he wants to pull up you keep pushing him on and on, until you are ready to stop (not after 100 yards but keep him going!) I have found this to be successful and yes they may get a little excitable but will come back a lot quicker and easier. I really wouldnt rely on bit strength personally.
 
My Ish mare is very like that. The answer with her is push her forward, believe it or not. It feels very strange using your legs strongly on something that is pulling, but you have to push the backend up into your hand, so to speak. You also have to refrain from always doing fast work on the fields and tracks. Thats how my mare ended up silly as I always took advantage of the canter places when getting her event fit. She just anticipated bombing off. You have to reverse that and make them realise that its not always a canter point - sometimes walk.

Re the jogging, with my mare, half halts help, and lots of vocal commands with them. Also acute transitions - trot to halt (pause two seconds) then off to trot (few seconds) then back to walk (two seconds) then trot (few seconds) then halt, then reinback, then trot etc until the horse is properly listening. You have to be quite firm (they are disobeying you after all) and reward them with a stroke/vocal praise if they comply.

Bit wise, with my mare that really yanks down, a cheltenham gag is the best bit for her, but you have to be gentle with your hands as its very harsh and will cause the horse to hang behind the bit (and bounce more) if you just keep hold. If you're soft with the hand the gag is only a snaffle unless the horse pulls and the gag action comes into effect. I only use it for jumping - especially xc, and if others ride her. I don't like to use it all the time, but it is useful to check her now and again if she's getting cocky!

You can do a lot of schooling on hacks, but it would be good for a young horse to box somewhere with a school from time to time.
 
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It sounds as though she is hanging onto his mouth and giving a constant pressure so he is resisting the bit.

It is a very hard habit to break as you hold on to the reins expecting that if you let go the horse will 'go'. (Its like going round with your foot on the brake, eventually the pads will wear and they will not be as effective.)

It is probably confidence thing that has taken a knock and possibly from him starting jogging first, then expecting him to 'go' so a tighter hold is taken further exagerating the problem.

This is an interesting read and some parts of it you could probably take and apply to the situation http://www.horseproblems.com.au/Horse Problems on 'The Jig Jogging Horse'.htm.

Changing the bit may give confidence but increasing the bit severity will only mask the issue for a short time and could potentially lead to hardening his mouth.

I hope this is of some help and I don't want to sound to critical of your friends riding but it is easier to find fault with our horses and our 'horses have problems' but 9 times out of 10 it is the rider who is at fault. I've learnt this one a couple of times and have had the jogging issue on and off for the 12 years I have had mine, it all comes down to my mood and how relaxed I am and the contact I am riding him in logn it I last took him out). As soon as I allow him his head he will come back to walk although I do feel nervous at the time of letting my reins out.
 
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A ramble , not a rant................
Not to throw anything on the fan, but the fact is so many people buy horses which are not suited for their own circumstances: a young horse has many potential careers and happy hacking may not be one of them, at this stage.
I used to be in NH racing and our horse were trained to be, well trainable, we had nice steep hills to canter them up, and no problems with individually tweaking feedstuffs, to the extent we see on the forum, instead we tweaked the work regime.
The horses [all "typical TB's] got two hours of exercise every day, in two sessions, and were chilled out.
Often the best riders are horsemen too, they develop their skills riding hundreds of horse per year, and most have spent years working with horse from their early teens. The riders are professional athletes and are matched to the needs of each horse, even at the top level not all riders can develop the full potential of every horse.
 
'Not to throw anything on the fan, but the fact is so many people buy horses which are not suited for their own circumstances: a young horse has many potential careers and happy hacking may not be one of them, at this stage.'

There is nothing in the OP's post to suggest the horse isn't suited to their own circumstances, it doesn't actually say they want a happy hacker and many people produce competition horses without the use of a school and like most young horses this one is being exactly that 'young' and pushing the bounderies. Your response wasn't very constructive the OP is looking for advice not to be shot down for not being a 'horseman' or a professional.
OP, a copper roller can give a bit more braking (I think, but will stand to be corrected if nec.)
 
Troyseph said:
Hi all this is on behalf of s very close friend. Thanks for reading!

She owns a 16.1 ISH x gelding, he is still young. (6) and a lovely boy buy my can he be a bit of a handful.

Basically he is perfect hacking alone/in company at slower work (walking/trotting on roads etc) but once the work becomes faster (trails/fields canter gallop etc) he becomes extremely hard to hold, my friend literally holds him the whole time because as soon as you release the Reins he just tanks off.... He does stop relatively quickly with a fight! but still, very hard and tends to tank off leaning on the bit, head tucked right under literally pulling you away!...like a steam train

He also after doing faster work, when asked to walk will not! He jogs jogs jogs constantly, and will not walk at all.she has him in a eggbutt snaffle, with flash. She has tried him in a French link, gag etc which didn't make much difference.

She can't school in a proper school either as we don't have one, so we have to make do schooling on hacks as much as we can...:-/
Advice is gratefully appreciated thank u

Iv suggested a waterford but she won't try it...:-/...
Click to expand...

This sounds like my horse used to be id 16.2 chestnut mare!!! Basically, when i first had her she jogged everywhere when i did fast work she wouldnt stop! Now she never jogs, she walks, and i can stop her in canter when i want her to stop not when she thinks its time to stop. I did this with schooling (lots) and changed her bit to a waterford gag which depite some peoples opinions is not a harsh bit in the right hands. It is correct that the tighter you hold her the faster and more determined she is to go so what i did was have her on a l contact but looser rein and let her go therefore we werent in a tug of war. ALso i used my voice all the time and now she will ride of the voice and not neccesarily need the legs. I hope this helps as i have waffled a bit! Be patioent it has taken me over 2 years and several bolts to get her this way and now i love her to bits :)
 
Thank you for all the helpful replies have passed them on and she is taking them on board. She is actually a fantastic rider and she is by no means just wanting a happy hacker, she also is very brave and it would take a lot more than this to scare her lol!! It's just the constant blisters etc will update as abd when I know!:-) thank you xx
 
i hate waterfords. i think they are incredibly harsh and would try everything else i could think of before resorting to one (and that would mainly be to improve the horses schooling before looking at a mouthful of harsh ironmongery.

i agree with the poster that said to remove the fast work for a while. With a horse that gets overexcited cantering, hooning around especially on the same places and tracks where he's going to start anticipating it - isn't going to help.

slow everything down while you/she sorts out the schooling to get her boy listening to her better, lots of direct/indirect transitions up and down, circling etc out hacking, before looking at re-bitting. A waterford is a last resort IMO.
 
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Honey08 said:
It feels very strange using your legs strongly on something that is pulling
Click to expand...

I agree, it takes an awful lot of leg to hold a pulling horse. Once you have got into a tonking off situation and/or you have lost your seat/can't get your leg on then it is game over.

1. hold the horse 'on the leg' Any 'checking' needs to be done at the height of the pace (so as the canter is coming up, leg is hopefully already on, energy up through your stomach muscles and when the highest point of the canter is reached you almost lift the horse back onto the haunches through your holding leg and lifting stomach - you are never lifting with the rein it is used merely to balance and apply the check. I might not have explained that very well ;) Your friend will end up with a six pack :D

2. A very good discipline 3km trot, 3km gallop, 3 km trot. This way the horses don't boil over at the faster pace or anticipation of faster work. It is 3km build up, faster work, 3km wind down. Of course one might not always have 9km handy :cool:

Jogging. I absolutely will not accept jogging, it is rude :) When the horse goes to jog, riders pick up the rythmn of the jog, this is almost accepting the jog. Stay in the rythmn of the walk and repeatedly ask for the walk. Never-ever-not-even-once :D go with the horse in the jog. Be determined, horse will find this rider in a different pace most unhelpful and offer the walk :)
 
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