Advice needed please from breaking experts!

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NIKKI1974

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Went to see a guy this morning with regards to breaking my youngster in the next couple of weeks,its two doors down from me.Anyway this guy is meant to be a pro and professionally schools horses too on the flat and for jumping.I turn up and there are three horses being schooled with another two youngsters on the horse walker all looked clean and professional and riders were out of this world.Anyway on asking questions he reckoned it would take about eight weeks which is normal,but when i asked him if he long reined his horses he said no he doesnt believe in it and has his own ways , now correct me if i am wrong but i thought the idea of long reining a baby was so it got used to stearing and your hands before actually getting on its back! Can you break a horse without long reining well properly anyway?
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Personally I have long-reined all of the 4 I have broken (so not an expert by a long shot). However, my friends horse absolutely hated the long reins down his sides and so we left it. He is a super cob with the most amazing movement and its certainly not done him any harm.

I would suggest you ask if you can go along to some of his 'starter' sessions with any of the other youngsters he has.

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Yes, long-reining is very often used when breaking, and it certainly has its advantages for the reasons you mentioned. I always long-rein when breaking in, but everybody has their own way of doing things, so to dismiss him just becasue he does things differently to what you expect does seem a bit unfair. I would agree with the above poster, go along and see what he does and how, then make a decision. Best of luck!
 
It can be done without long reining but it's easier with it.
We used to back ours after a few lunge sessions and some basic long reining by walking alongside them useing the reins to steer/stop.
We then hacked them for a few weeks before returning to the arena for formal sessions.
If you long rein them first it does make eventual backing so much easier and safer, if they have steering and brakes and have been used to a contact they accept it when ridden.
I would go and see him in action before sending my horses there, anyone capable won't object to this at all if you arrange a time.
Eight weeks is an awfully long time, we would expect three weeks to backing, a couple of weeks ridden work so 5 to 6 weeks is more the norm.
 
Ive only backed ponies rather than horses, however I hadnt long-reined all of them and if I had it was literally only once or twice max! I long reined my current project twice and lightly lunged. Then got on and was lead about at first then off the lead. Pony learns as quickly as non-longreined ones IMO. Depends on the horse though I think.

I agree with HenryHorn, 8 weeks is a long time to back. Although, is this to have the horse going in a decent outline and jumping as well? Otherwise, Id normally say 3 weeks to have them happily walk/trot/canter and 5 to have them popping very small fences happily.
 
Thanks for advice everyone i have already lunged him and he has been long reined a couple of times after i lunged him with two reins. I certainly think its worth me going to see him doing this.The only reason he is away for that length of time is because they are going to also start pole work with him and pop him over a small fence, i agree it would not normally take this long! He basically said the first two weeks he will be saddled and bridled in the stable,already been bitted so should be ok, the second week he spends laying across his back in the stable then from there they start riding him|?
 
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Can you break a horse without long reining well properly anyway?
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Yes! We very rarely long rein. IMHO it can make youngsters over-bend and you risk having to PULL them up if they decide to go faster than you can run! I've seen too many youngsters on long reins going around with their noses on their chests as they try to evade the bit and it's a habit I DON'T want them getting into!

Our approximate programme (and it varies a bit depending on the individual) is as follows:

Week 1 - general handling and lunging - the most important part of the lunging being to teach the horse voice commands. The aim is to have the horse word perfect on walk, trot, canter and 'whoa' before the rider gets on!! During week 1 we introduce the saddle with stirrups dangling, and do some 'bouncing' on either side of the horse when he is standing still to get him used to the rider going 'up'.

Week 2 - the rider vaults (from the ground or mounting block depending on size of horse) to lay across the saddle a couple of times and then progresses to being led forward for a few strides in walk. Then goes to sitting up and being led forward in walk.

The VERY odd horse finds this VERY stressful (predator on the back!) and this stage may take several days before the horse is relaxed under the rider's weight. At this stage there is the MOST risk of a horse either bucking or running and if we get the feeling he IS going to explode then we send him straight out on the lunge with rider hanging onto neckstrap. In our experience, a horse will run rather than buck - but if he's not allowed to run when he needs to, he WILL buck! If they run, they can outrun their fear and realise it's unnecessary.

However, it's normally NOT necessary. By the end of week 2 the horse will normally be happy with the rider sitting on him, as he is led, and we progress to the leader letting the horse out on a longer rein and the rider taking the reins and doing the steering and stopping - always using the voice aids with rein/leg aids. At this point, usually start of

Week 3: EITHER the horse is ridden - still on the lunge - but with the rider in control - or comes straight off the lunge and the rider works in walk and trot - developing steering and smooth transitions.

Week 4 - usually hacking out (we have forestry and bridle paths immediately opposite) with a sensible companion - but always expected to go in front most of the time.

During week 3 and/or 4, we like the owner to come and ride the horse in the manege (by this stage it's been ridden by a second member of staff to make sure it's happy with a change of jockey!) Depending on whether the owner is experienced and confident, it may go home at this stage or stay a little longer with owner coming to ride it at LEAST once a week.

If a horse has had GOOD handling and some work on the lunge before it comes, we can usually complete the job in 2-3 weeks. If a horse is especially nervous or stressy, it could take up to 6 weeks.

This is a home-bred filly on her 3rd day ridden! You can see she is accepting a nice contact and going forward actively - but calmly.

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She was never long-reined in her life - and she has one of the nicest mouths and the best attitude to work that you could possibly want. (Sorry, she's now sold and her new owner loves her to bits!
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ah bless you for writing that response that is absoloutly fab a real help to me that must have taken you ages! what a lovely helpful person you are its nice for me to know roughly at what stage i should see him doing different things and what to expect! Your filly is amazing after such a short time so jealous now i really hope my boy turns out like this! Its lovely to see what can be achieved in really capable hands.Thanks once again!
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I dont always long-rein, depends on the horse. Some just dont need it and, as pointed out above, it can make them tuck in the nose.
Moon was never long-reined and it hasnt done her any harm.....
 
The proof of the pudding is in the eating! personally i do long rein, just because it helps very much with the stearing and brakes, also very good for making them walk out in front and take the lead, but if this chap has a good reputation and his horses work well for him i shouldnt worry! Sounds like you have done most of the work already, should be easy for him.
 
I suggest that either you trust your trainer and let him do what he wants to achieve the desired end. If you need more reassurance, ask if you can speak to one of his previous clients (to see how their horses are going once back at home).
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I've never long reined coz I have no idea how to do it - all the ones I've backed and brought on seem to have done fine without it... I hope
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depends on the horse, I will only long rein something thats a bit stuffy and won't go forwards very easilly, and then I would normally start in the school, do a couple of circuits then go out and walk round the farm. Its otherwise kept to a bare minimum or not at all. If you have got the lunginf right, and got control of voice commands, then you should be able to ride them away easilly. I also have been quite put off longreining when last year a horrible mare we had in for breaking who really was a head case, went up on the longlines and came down over backwards , thus mangaing to bust herself up and needing a lot more time off. Had she been on the lunge I could have better chased her forwards and the likely hood of her going over would have been considerably less (although she was known for it and during her time with us broke 2 saddles, a bridle, a pair of side reins and a jockey)
 
one my youngsters couldnt cope with long reining, (just couldnt cope with someone being behind him, was v spooky and sharp) when i sold him as a six year old he was working med dressage, eventing to novice and bsja, dont think it did him ne harm!! I have a very tall 3 yold being backed at the mo and long reining for him i feel is a must just (physically)it wont do him (conformationally) ne good going round in circles!! As said by someone here u have to have trust in the person doing the breaking, is such an important time in young horses lives!!
 
I think i just mayb over protective of him,he wasnt handled much as a foal by the previous owners and at some point in his life i think he has had a slap, ive had him since he was eleven months old and its taken a lot of work and handling to get his confidence up! I suppose i worry a little that this could quite easily be undone and i obviously want him to have the best start in life when it comes to him being broken! This will probably be the making of him though and i reckon he is going to grow up quickly as his mind will be occupied with all the new challenges that lie ahead! I think i just need to know in my own head that i have given him the best possible start as i have seen some cases that have gone horribly wrong!
 
i dont think your being over protective, i think as we all do, u want the very best for young horse, if it was me, sending a horse away i would b there as much as i could!!!! You could mention this to your breaker and see if its ok to pop up ALOT!!
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U have put in alot of work with this chap and am sure all will b fine, would be fab to hear what u decide and how he gets on!
 
Its also haertbreaking because i always wanted to be the first person to sit on his back having done so much already but without a trusting person on the other end of him it was just not possible!
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Just hope my efforts have gone someway to making him a good horse i think i have always done the best by him and he is a completely different horse to what he was like! I am so excited though i cant contain myself sometimes sounds stupid but i have waited a long time for this and took a real chance by buying him and hoping he would come right. After losing my old mare that i had for over twenty years i never thought i could get that bond with another horse and i can honestly say with this one mayb one day i just might! Will keep you all posted as to what happens
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i wanted to be the first to sit on my horse too, but have children and backing and breaking for me ends when a rider mounts fully for the first time, i do everything i can first and then my friend (who also happens to be the most fantastic women with young horses) gets on, she comes to me and i do pay her so is proff! done this a few times works really well

all the best to you and good luck, think u already have a good bond with your horse!!
 
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